upward expansion + downward compression ?

loungeclaus

New member
Hey i was wondering if there is a case where i could use upward expansion (with fabfilter pro MB by example) ? Here is an example : on an instrument (like a live performance of a tabla), for hearing the small fingertips on the tabla, then a normal downward compression, in order to compress the overall signal. Is it possible, or there is no case with expansion then compression ?
 
I think what you are looking for is parallel compression. I don't think upward expansion is going to get you the results you are searching for.
 
Let's look at all the options:-

1. Parallel compression. Pro's can bring up the low end "cleaner" than upwards compression. Con's you'll still have a downwards compressed sound mixed in so you will hear a change in tone on the louder hits.

2. Upwards expansion. Pro's won't effect the louder hits. Con's the quieter hits could sound a pit too "punchy" which could sound weird.

3. Upwards compression. Pro's again won't effect the transients of the louder hits. Con's as well as bringing up the quieter hits it could bring up a lot of noise + reverb etc leading to a possibly messy situation.

4. Volume automation. (My personal choice) Pro's with the level riding happening you should get a pretty clean boost for the quieter hits while keeping the louder parts unchanged. Con's more work than simply dialing in a plugin.
 
Yeah, upwards expansion is basically the exact opposite of what's being asked here - it'd just make loud things even louder and the quiet stuff would still be quiet. Either traditional downwards compression + makeup gain (since you're really just looking to decrease the dynamic range) or upward compression is the ticket here.
 
This is going into advanced dynamics topics, but I will try my best to give you some valuable ideas about it.

As you might be aware there are a few different dimensions that make up the overall dynamic footprint. Simplified you can think of the overall dynamics as the product of short term and long term dynamics.

You can use expanders to improve both the long and short term dynamics. The key is to be aware of what you are doing relative to these and why.

You have mainly three scopes of application for dynamics - individual track, group, mix. So already here we have 6 dynamic dimensions where expanders can be used to improve the quality of the overall dynamics.

Expanders are then used in several ways for various reasons relating to these 6 dynamic dimensions, therefore expanders are really important when discussing advanced work with improving the dynamics of a mix.

I am not going go through them all, however one key use for expanders is to control the tendency for unwanted harsh sound characteristics (noise reduction) in the short term dynamics and to control fatigue in the long term dynamics (noise reduction). Both of these qualities are quite critical when you aim for giving the mix that little extra push up on the charts. How you set up the expanders for this is advanced.

Another type of application for expanders, in the long term dynamics, is to provide elements in the mix additional room for the signal and hence avoid having to compress as much. This is good for instance to give drums enough room in the choruses.

We are now discussing work with dynamics above pro level.
 
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DarkRed definitely knows their stuff and I'm definitely going to try some of these things out. That being said, I love doing these volume changes "by hand" like jrace suggested. Many time, for me, creating certain effects "by hand" can give it a really organic and sometimes uneven sound, which can be very beautiful at times.
 
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