Synths and layering?

[djfiveoneoh]

I feel like I have such a hard time finding sounds that mesh well together. I also feel like I can never get my synths to sound as good as big producers. Is there any tips you guys can throw out that'll help?

 

[B Side Producer]

Stereo effects like doubler, chorus, reverb and that sort of stuff. You can also layer your synth.
Work on master techniques/effects, like for instance, mid side mastering.
Work on your skills of the instrument, in this case, playing the keyboard.
Work with proper sounding samples/instruments, that saves you work.
If you eventually have your piece played out, copy all of those notes one octave up and one octave down.
Work on your theory. Sound engineering, music synthesis.

 

[steffeeh]

As for getting better synthsounds, there are a lot of controls you see, and it's easy to forget some. Make sure you know the different controls and experiment with them to see if they can contribute somehow. Sometimes the most random idea can take your sound to the next level (happened to me just a few days ago).

Then, spend some time doing minor tweaks and fine adjustment to sweeten the song. For example, if you deal with a supersaw sound, a slight change in the levels on the different oscillators can either boost the sound or make it duller.

Then you must not forget the MIDI-editing and actually performing good melodies and chords and so on. No cool synth can help if your melody is out of scale or if your chords sound false. Neither can a cool synth help a simply non-engaging and dull performance.
As for the MIDI's, setting the right velocities on the different notes is very important. I recently had an okay and nice pluck-sound, and then I thought I maybe should boost the lowest notes - and bam! suddenly it sounded so much fatter and amazing. Also, a slightly higher velocity in the highest notes (often the leading ones) can make it all more alive. Experiment with this. Then you have the note lengths, which are more important than you might think (to a degree where a famous EDM duo stated that this is one of the reasons many pop artists trying to mimic EDM never really get there).
Then you must not forget mapping different knobs to velocity and randomizing, which can make the sound more human.

As for layering, not much to add more than experimenting and finding your own sound and techniques. Good point with setting the layers at other octaves.
You could also use layers with different detuning-amounts and detune-voices if you deal with a detuned sound.
Lastly, don't forget to layer inside the box - meaning do layering inside the synth with the different oscillators at different octaves and timbres.

 

[SwagProductionz]

it's nothing no one can tell you.. it's something that differentiates big time producers from little producers.. you gain it over time.. beats i woulda made a year ago i won't make now because it's too basic.. it's not up to my standards of what's going on right now.. it comes with experience .. i know when a sound is basic.. i know when a sound is different and hot..

 

[crimsonhawk47]

it's nothing no one can tell you.. it's something that differentiates big time producers from little producers.. you gain it over time.. beats i woulda made a year ago i won't make now because it's too basic.. it's not up to my standards of what's going on right now.. it comes with experience .. i know when a sound is basic.. i know when a sound is different and hot..

Yup. Kind of what you don't want to hear, but it just comes with time and critical listening. I think making 10 shitty songs is going to give you more experience than watching 10 hours of tutorials. You just need to get your ear wet.

I think Steffeh has some great tips. Especially about balancing the levels of different octaves, either with midi velocity or in the box. I think just layering a lot of sounds and balancing those layers is so key to getting a full production. Not necessarily for every instrument, but definitely for the important instruments, otherwise you will get that "there's a hole in my production" feeling.

 

[bandcoach]

I'm still inclined to give this answer

same tips you get for orchestration

placement in the stereo field is important - no two instruments can occupy the same physical space so no two sounds should be in the same logical space

pitch use in each register/octave should follow the basic plan as follows

below the E below middle C (E in the middle of the bass clef staff) distance between notes is at minimum a 5th and better as an octave
below the E an octave below the one above (E beneath the bass clef staff) minimum distance is 1 octave or two octave or an octave and 5th
above the E below middle C the distance can be a 3rd or smaller - as with any clusters make sure that you avoid unwanted dissonances

in addition consider fatback layering vs chordal layering

fatback has the line in two or three octaves with the lowest octave doubled
chordal is just as it sounds, each note is played out as a chord, so you are also needing to be aware of harmonic clashes as you move through the line, make your choices according to how much or how little the harmonisation is dissonant to the underlying harmony

see these posts for more info

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...echniques-fatten-my-orchrestral-stuff-351377/
https://www.futureproducers.com/for...mixing-mastering/brass-section-mixing-471931/
https://www.futureproducers.com/for...k-approach-chordal-approach-bandcoach-406701/
https://www.futureproducers.com/for...ng-better-brass-melodies-trap-hip-hop-484387/

also take the time and watch this video carefully to learn more about the harmonisation approaches you can use

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...ry-lindsay-jazz-voicings-master-class-469343/

and its follow up response to this

could panning be used to improve the sound of the different layers? high's to the side, lows in the middle etc... Im trying to find out how the wide sounding electro basses are made and wondered if panning has a lot to do with it

using panning to shift freq ranges is not going to be as useful as simply panning individual instruments - actually made me think of a multi-band panner which may or may not exist as a vstFx - individual instruments will always have a combination of frequency ranges rather than be limited to a single range and you would just place the instrument for best effect, same goes for synth patches......

as for ametrine's concerns re panning and mono playback: the issues that panning seeks to address are not just frequency issues

- most frequency clashes are down to poor orchestrational choices not poor sound placement/eq

-- in fact, trying to eq your way out of an orchestrational problem rarely works, as the underlying cause is still present and can still be heard

- reread my post and the linked posts above to better understand the issues and concepts involved

 

[crimsonhawk47]

I'm still inclined to give this answer

same tips you get for orchestration

placement in the stereo field is important - no two instruments can occupy the same physical space so no two sounds should be in the same logical space

pitch use in each register/octave should follow the basic plan as follows

below the E below middle C (E in the middle of the bass clef staff) distance between notes is at minimum a 5th and better as an octave
below the E an octave below the one above (E beneath the bass clef staff) minimum distance is 1 octave or two octave or an octave and 5th
above the E below middle C the distance can be a 3rd or smaller - as with any clusters make sure that you avoid unwanted dissonances

in addition consider fatback layering vs chordal layering

fatback has the line in two or three octaves with the lowest octave doubled
chordal is just as it sounds, each note is played out as a chord, so you are also needing to be aware of harmonic clashes as you move through the line, make your choices according to how much or how little the harmonisation is dissonant to the underlying harmony

see these posts for more info

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...echniques-fatten-my-orchrestral-stuff-351377/
https://www.futureproducers.com/for...mixing-mastering/brass-section-mixing-471931/
https://www.futureproducers.com/for...k-approach-chordal-approach-bandcoach-406701/
https://www.futureproducers.com/for...ng-better-brass-melodies-trap-hip-hop-484387/

also take the time and watch this video carefully to learn more about the harmonisation approaches you can use

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...ry-lindsay-jazz-voicings-master-class-469343/

and its follow up response to this



using panning to shift freq ranges is not going to be as useful as simply panning individual instruments - actually made me think of a multi-band panner which may or may not exist as a vstFx - individual instruments will always have a combination of frequency ranges rather than be limited to a single range and you would just place the instrument for best effect, same goes for synth patches......

as for ametrine's concerns re panning and mono playback: the issues that panning seeks to address are not just frequency issues

- most frequency clashes are down to poor orchestrational choices not poor sound placement/eq

-- in fact, trying to eq your way out of an orchestrational problem rarely works, as the underlying cause is still present and can still be heard

- reread my post and the linked posts above to better understand the issues and concepts involved

Just a few questions

1) When we say notes need to be a certain distance apart, are we not counting unisons? Or do we include those? As in should a bass playing c2 not be layered with anything else playing c2 at all?

2) Is this with regards to layering a specific sound, or is this with regards to the whole track? Do I not want any 5ths at all below E2? (assuming c4 is middle c)

 

[Sluggerz]

I've only been producing a few months and have found it much more helpful to play about with everything instead of watching someone else make a sound on a tutorial. Kept finding myself stuck with their noise and any attempt to make it my own screwed it up. I have been using Reason 5 and have found the subtraktor is brilliant. Everytime I asked a friend how they knew how to use it, they told me 'just play about with it.' I didnt get how i could understand everything without help, but after multiple songs it gets easier and easier.
Also like others have said reverbs maximisers etc have helped me out loads. just adds abit more too it.

A final tip to getting sounds that work together, well in my opinion is to re open the same synth but then fiddle with it from there. If it doesnt work out re load the synth and start again. Sometimes works out, sometimes doesnt.

Thanks for the tips from everyone else aswell, learnt some new things

 

[bandcoach]

Just a few questions

1) When we say notes need to be a certain distance apart, are we not counting unisons? Or do we include those? As in should a bass playing c2 not be layered with anything else playing c2 at all?

2) Is this with regards to layering a specific sound, or is this with regards to the whole track? Do I not want any 5ths at all below E2? (assuming c4 is middle c)

1) unisons are fine but always think about whether the line is exactly the same or deviates
- if it deviates the clashes with the notes in the other line may be particularly brutal; so be prepared to rewrite the line or pan each line to different sides
- currently watching Enders game for the 3rd time and the soundtrack is reinforcing these ideas for me
-- distinguish between harmonic lines and melodic lines
--- harmonic lines will be either block chords or arpeggios
--- melodic lines can be played without worrying too much about the harmonic texture

2) the advice is standard orchestral practice
- whether you are layering or using sections or whatever textural approach suits your current piece, you need to keep the intervals large in the low end to avoid mud and crud

 

[crimsonhawk47]

What If its the same line but the instruments have different attacks and sustains?

 

[bandcoach]

unison lines are fine this about creating textures so you are wanting to hear the different attack and sustain patterns of each sound as a blend

 

[mr0nl1n3]

cool topic guys