SubPac Realizations; Is there a "sweet-spot" frequency?

[DimensionX]

So now that I can feel sub frequencies through my SubPac, I am now realizing what I have been missing in my sonic perception. It's as if sub frequencies and the rest of the frequencies are two separate bodies that have different movements going on that work together. Over the months that I have had it I realize that many producers as well as bands don't have this perception whereas more modern producers take advantage of understanding the differentiation to push the boundaries of music.


I understand that the best way to get the best sound is to make it sound good on multiple systems so, having said that, is there a certain frequency that is best? Is this a secret? Some songs I hear have such an amazing low end, so amazing that I wonder if there is a very certain frequency range they are staying in.


What are your experiences on discovering sub frequencies? Do you think having sub frequencies on my back instead of my head (I only mix on headphones - monitors are out of question) is good or dangerous since when they are on my head, they are all in one place? Or maybe it's better?


One thing I am finding when I am sound designing is that I find I start to want to get 'that feeling' of sub frequencies. Do you think it's best to do sound design with lower frequencies cut off or not?


What are your thoughts around the subject?

 

[Epsilon-144]

Instruments should have their own area on the frequency spectrum. The bass should be aroun 30Hz to 80Hz. The kick should be around 80Hz-150Hz(maybe?). You can also layer a higher frequency bass from 80-150 as well for laptop speakers and simple (ipod) headphone. Those systems dont really pick up anything under 50-60hertz. Some say they do but they're not really designed for that low bass reponse. ...so ya, you gotta mix to optimize the bass harmony for everything ideally..

idk, i think thats about right..

 

[localspace]

Hmm.. interesting ideas those SubPac's, first time I heard of them.
How can you be sure of an accurate response with them though? Seems to me kinda hard to balance the 'levels' between a physical sensation and what you hear from the speakers.
I also imagine that balance would be different the moment you move your chair even a little. But there may be smart solutions to that, like you now also have that headtracking software for headphones.

As far as sweet spot for sub. I think it's all either 'sweet spot' or 'pool of horrible mud' down there. The key is not just in hitting the sweet spots, that's easy. But not enough. You need to also 'clear the way' for it with a large and wide soundstage and very tight mixing.

It's worth keeping in mind that on such low (slow) frequencies using a compressor will just work like a volume control.
Vice versa.. sending a bass heavy track into a bus compressor will make the compressor react to the loud bass frequencies first and most of all and not the (more dynamic) drums.
This is why most decent compressors have a highpass detection filter. I find it's often best to not use a compressor at all... at least not to get a 'fatter' sound.. everytime you compress something you also bring up all the mud, noise and harshness again and limit the 'musical energy' making it easy to get into an endless rebalancing cycle.

Another thing that seems particular to bass, and quite logical if you think about it:
EQ'ing with bell curve has almost no effect, it's too narrow and precise. Use wide EQ's, mine let me make band-shelves which seems to work really well.
Also, EQ's used in mixing change the phase of sounds, this effect gets much worse at the lower end.. it doesn't always create problems, but it does make mixing very imprecise and unpredictable since our ears are not that sensitive to it. The answer is to use linear phase EQ's, but these take more CPU power and need back latency. Or just live with the issue and just be aware of it. Some EQ's can visualise it. Doing your low cut with a shelf instead of an actual high-pass introduces a bit less phasing.

The key to 'fat sound' is always saturation, harmonisation, distortion, excitation... however you want to call it. That, and having a wide, bright soundstage so the bass has something to stand out against.
I view it like this, saturation/exciters warm or beef up the sound, can tame unruly transients and harshness and generate those bass harmonies that make it stand out on lesser systems and in busy mixes.
So they expand the sound, make it bigger. If you then go in with your compressors and eq's you have more of a pallette to work on, there's just more going on harmonically, dynamically, more timbre.. to mess with.

I'm by no means an expert, but this what I've experienced myself.

 

[MadHat33]

So now that I can feel sub frequencies through my SubPac, I am now realizing what I have been missing in my sonic perception. It's as if sub frequencies and the rest of the frequencies are two separate bodies that have different movements going on that work together. Over the months that I have had it I realize that many producers as well as bands don't have this perception whereas more modern producers take advantage of understanding the differentiation to push the boundaries of music.


I understand that the best way to get the best sound is to make it sound good on multiple systems so, having said that, is there a certain frequency that is best? Is this a secret? Some songs I hear have such an amazing low end, so amazing that I wonder if there is a very certain frequency range they are staying in.


What are your experiences on discovering sub frequencies? Do you think having sub frequencies on my back instead of my head (I only mix on headphones - monitors are out of question) is good or dangerous since when they are on my head, they are all in one place? Or maybe it's better?


One thing I am finding when I am sound designing is that I find I start to want to get 'that feeling' of sub frequencies. Do you think it's best to do sound design with lower frequencies cut off or not?


What are your thoughts around the subject?

Hello!

There is already great knowledge posted here for your concerns mentioned! Perhaps an additional perspective to add could relate to your idea of sweet spot:

---After reading your post my first thought was the literal usage of EQ, specific the act of "carving" up the frequency spectrum.

Please bare with me and perhaps forgive the overly simplistic groundwork here, but I think it would be appropriate to lead into my thought for your post: First one could think about "cutting" frequencies, and this could be done by sweeping the spectrum with a subtractive dip via bell curve in a EQ plug or hardware unit. With this specific methodology sweeping the various sections of the spectrum (Subs, Lows, Mids, Hi's;the middle grounds between) yields the sweeping of audible phase shift (with natural phase equipment) from frequency spot to frequency spot. Inversely boost sweeping is creating obvious resonance build per boost-sweep location. Listening for these resonances could perhaps be your means finding sweet spots(?).

Beyond this I believe it would helpful to consider how you prefer this sweetness to occur? For example, do you hear sweetness as the absence of abundant resonant-locations across the spectrum, both relative to the track in question and the mix as a whole? I certainly can appreciate clarity as a means of desirable outcome! Beyond this I could imagine sweetness as being present when deliberately located frequency locations are brought up into perceivable resonance balance---for me this has recently been sidechained EQ feeding a compressor's action! the selected frequencies being subtractive and loosening specific locations of the track's performance into a place of freeing, balanced dynamic movement. its essentially multi-band comp with a lovely, simple workflow and perspective. Alas, this does seem like the oldie-but-a-goodie perspective-conflict between "cut vs boost eq techniques" lol, but I believe this line of investigative thought may help locate your preferred perspective and ultimately the personally-specific technique and workflow you seek!

as always, wishing nothing but the best

-MadHat