Recording Vocals in home studio setup, levels, and monitoring via headphones?

Dannymix

New member
Hello there.

Been a long time since iv been here. Iv had a break for a while, sold all my gear and have started to get back into electronic music producing again, this time im all software using Reason 9.

Now my brother is a singer just for fun at home, and is now wanting to get into recording his own songs along side Karaoke tracks, and get a very close to studio mix as possible. He has got Reason, Ballance audio interface, monitor speakers, decent mic, stand and pop shiled, and headphones so we are all set to go, or so we thought?

I dont have much experience recording vocals, im a electronic musician, but have done my research e.c.t.

Problem 1:

He cant hear his own vocals via the headphones, the interface headphone volume is full, so we know for his 250hm headphone he needs a pre amp, one on the way, there is no way to get his phones any boost from what I know of?

We continue and except for the moment he will have to deal with not hearing things that lound.

Problem 2: Mix recording level.

So I get the meter up on the screen, and him to sing the chorus, or most loudest part of the song, he does, I set the input to -10db. He starts to record still not hardly hearing his own voice, music turned right down, but his levels are now hitting at -20db when he hits the loudest parts, so how do I set the mix input level when each time his performance changes?

Problem 3: Still cant hear his vocals!

So I know he wont get it loud without the headphone preamp, but should get his vocals mixed with the music but there is a problem. The music is a Karaoke track, its mastered so its dynamics are very even, his vocals are sooo dynamic his voice gets lost. I turn down the music track very low, but should I have to do this, is this the proper professional way to work? I then try applying a compressor on his vocals live to tame his dynamics, but then he tells me even with slight compression he dont like the tone change, I cant hear it, but he can, even so the compressor is not helping things as its controling the peeks, so I need to make the gain back up, this dont seem to get the vocals loud enough for what he needs, and adds other complications to the matter for him.

If you where in a real studio what is the proper procedure, what is expected from the vocalist when the engineer is setting his vocal levels up, and how is his mix boosted to the singer?

Thanks for any help, Dan
 
What kind of microphone? If it needs more gain than you have available, that could be part of the problem. Yes, a microphone preamp is a good idea. You should have enough headphone volume from your interface, but you could always add a headphone amp (not a preamplifier, not an interface; specifically for headphones). This should give you enough volume unless he's got real hearing issues.

Setting levels with vocals or live instruments can be tricky. It can be hard to get performers to give you what I call a "real world signal." When you have him sing the loudest part of the song, do you have him sing along with the track? Or is he just singing acapella while you set levels? Have him sing with the track. Tell him-- "Let's practice it a bit," don't say anything about setting levels or getting a take. Once you get the track cued-up and a decent headphone volume for him, just start having him run it down, reminding him to warm-up gradually. Set levels during this time, which gives you a better overall picture of how he will sing with the real track.

As far as mixing and compression, you'll have to add compression during or after-the-fact (or both), unless he wants it to sound like a tiny-voiced guy singing with an obvious karaoke track. So he will have to get used to the idea. But if this becomes a thing you do fairly regularly, you'll have to look at setting-up a separate monitor mix for the performer. This allows you to hear what you need to for recording/track supervision purposes, and him to hear what he needs to for performance purposes.

GJ
 
What kind of microphone? If it needs more gain than you have available, that could be part of the problem. Yes, a microphone preamp is a good idea. You should have enough headphone volume from your interface, but you could always add a headphone amp (not a preamplifier, not an interface; specifically for headphones). This should give you enough volume unless he's got real hearing issues.

Setting levels with vocals or live instruments can be tricky. It can be hard to get performers to give you what I call a "real world signal." When you have him sing the loudest part of the song, do you have him sing along with the track? Or is he just singing acapella while you set levels? Have him sing with the track. Tell him-- "Let's practice it a bit," don't say anything about setting levels or getting a take. Once you get the track cued-up and a decent headphone volume for him, just start having him run it down, reminding him to warm-up gradually. Set levels during this time, which gives you a better overall picture of how he will sing with the real track.

As far as mixing and compression, you'll have to add compression during or after-the-fact (or both), unless he wants it to sound like a tiny-voiced guy singing with an obvious karaoke track. So he will have to get used to the idea. But if this becomes a thing you do fairly regularly, you'll have to look at setting-up a separate monitor mix for the performer. This allows you to hear what you need to for recording/track supervision purposes, and him to hear what he needs to for performance purposes.

GJ


Hi thanks for your reply. He has a decent rode mic, proper studio mic. His recording levels dont need boosting, I only need about half the input gain on the interface before im getting -10 to -6db, the problem is what he is hearing while he is recording, a very low signal. I have his mix go through the control room on the Reason mixer, the level here is 100% Being that the recording is ideal there is no room to add more at the source. Not only can he hardly hear his voice in his earphones, but its the same for his monitors, untill I play back his recording, then we hear a nice clean recording. I understand that part of the issue regarding the music is its mastered so he is singing with his dynamic voice againts a mixed and mastered music track, either still the vocals are so low he saying I cant hear anything at times, although the input signal is fine, and recorded playback is fine.

Dan
 
It would be easier to help if we knew what equipment ya had.
The mic and interface being used for example.
XLR/TRS/ 3.5mm jack etc.

Even a low end interface can output huge volume so I'm curious as to what the problem is with your friend's mic.

And it would be easier to help you if we knew what you were doing in the equipment.
Like what the gain staging was etc.
 
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I'm not familiar with recording in Reason as a DAW, but a few general ideas:

Are you using the headphone port on the interface? If there is only one, can you get a headphone splitter so you can both utilize that at least? If you're going through an audio interface, it should have ample output for you to hear vocals.

Does the mic require phantom power? If so, have you enabled it on the interface? You should definitely be able to get a hotter input signal.

When recording over a karaoke track, it's common to have to turn it down a bit, but your microphone input signal should be loud enough that you don't have to turn it all the way down. Essentially, you're working with two tracks in reason (Beat and Vocals) so you'll have to balance between the two of course, but it shouldn't be as dramatic of a gain issue as it sounds.

Let us know in a bit more detail what's going on, apologies if my response is unclear. Trying to make sense of the issue myself.
 
It would be easier to help if we knew what equipment ya had.
The mic and interface being used for example.
XLR/TRS/ 3.5mm jack etc.

Even a low end interface can output huge volume so I'm curious as to what the problem is with your friend's mic.

And it would be easier to help you if we knew what you were doing in the equipment.
Like what the gain staging was etc.

All I remember is its a professional rode nt1 mic XLR inputs, there is nothing wrong with mic, the recording levels are fine, playback is fine, its just monitoring while he is recording is the issue. Music plays fine, I have to turn the music down so low to hears his own vocals, then he hears a better mix but its very low. Reason seems to be holding back with the monitoring, its not loud enough. When we play the vocal take back its fine, but we dont hear it as loud while recording?

Gain staging is as follows.

Music track loaded into reason 9, set the gain so the music is -4db
Plug in mic into Ballance interface, get his to sing, set the gain input for mic to -10db
Turn on monitoring button, add slight reverb, and turn down the fader for the music so he can hear his vocals, which he cant hear hardly.

One we playback the vocals they are louder that what we hear as we record them. The vocals are clean, hiss free, and just need a bit of eq, compression in which I can then bring back up the music fader.

Dan
 
I'm not familiar with recording in Reason as a DAW, but a few general ideas:

Are you using the headphone port on the interface? If there is only one, can you get a headphone splitter so you can both utilize that at least? If you're going through an audio interface, it should have ample output for you to hear vocals.

Does the mic require phantom power? If so, have you enabled it on the interface? You should definitely be able to get a hotter input signal.

When recording over a karaoke track, it's common to have to turn it down a bit, but your microphone input signal should be loud enough that you don't have to turn it all the way down. Essentially, you're working with two tracks in reason (Beat and Vocals) so you'll have to balance between the two of course, but it shouldn't be as dramatic of a gain issue as it sounds.

Let us know in a bit more detail what's going on, apologies if my response is unclear. Trying to make sense of the issue myself.

Hi thanks for your reply. The headphones are plugged into his interface, the output knob is 100%, but he does have a 250hm headphones, so he needs a headphone amp, im hoping this will help a great deal. The 48v is turned on, and his mic input signal is very good, we just cant hear it when monitoring through reason. When I turn down the music im talking about removing -20 db or more. I hope when he gets a headphone amp that to get a better level it wont introduce loads of hiss.

Dan
 
He said mic hiss then said 250 ohm headphones without an amp. I'd suggest an amp, but he also mentions mic hiss.
I doubt it's a mic problem and more of a settings issue.

Even a kick mic has sufficient volume for sound mangling. [Shure beta 91a]
A headphone amp would fix the issue of your friend's 250 ohm cans but the mic issue can be all sorts of variables.
 
He said mic hiss then said 250 ohm headphones without an amp. I'd suggest an amp, but he also mentions mic hiss.
I doubt it's a mic problem and more of a settings issue.

Even a kick mic has sufficient volume for sound mangling. [Shure beta 91a]
A headphone amp would fix the issue of your friend's 250 ohm cans but the mic issue can be all sorts of variables.

There is no mic hiss during recording or playback, I hoping that when a headphone amp is added that in order for him to hear his own vocals along with low level music that it wont introduce hiss because of how much the signal needs boosting for the headphones.

Dan
 
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Try turning everything way _down_, then turn your monitors up. Just don't forget to turn the monitors down again when you listen to playback, or you will get a nice SURPRISE(!).

Yes, this sounds like a gain-staging issue of some kind.

GJ
 
Hm...ahhhhhhhhhhhh.
Windows volume slider is not applicable to daws using the asio driver of another audio device by the way.
Interfaces are at 100% volume when being used while daws are running when using the asio driver for one.
 
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