Phase problem

Sirwanmahdi

New member
Hello guys
I was wondering if when mixing drum samples and soft synth's I should be looking at phase issues.
If so, what do I need to be looking out for?
Also what's the best way to fix any problems? How to check VSTs wave phases

Cheers
 
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Out of phase:
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/out-of-phase/

Tbh, this is more something that needs to be taken into account 'hardware' wise. Like your subwoofer being out of phase with your speakers. That would be a good reason to buy 10 inch monitors and not having to hassle with positioning your subwoofer and setting it up right. Which is a harder then most ppl think.

I'd go by ear with what you describe. Does it sound proper? Does it sound like something your trying to accomplish? Then it's all good.
With monitor speakers, we wire the speakers through connectors. As long as the one soldering the plugs done his or her job right, you won't have signal phase problems there. So if you listen to your mix through them, or through a headset and it sounds alright, job well done! As I said, go by ear, don't worry too much in terms of 'phase issues' . Worry more in terms like 'cramped' 'instrument placement' 'stereo imaging' 'competing frequencies' . Brush up on your theory! :D

 
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You can create phase issues in a stereo mix as well, but it's unlikely the way you describe. Simplest diagnostic tool? Always check your mixes in mono.

GJ
 
What he said^
check you mixes in mono. It's a good practice to learn anyway.

As far as resolving phase issues, sometimes it can be as simple as applying a tool that inverts the phase of one of the conflicting sources. In the case of Ableton, you can use the Utility device. Sorry, I'm not familiar with how to do this with other programs, but I'm sure you can find something with a quick search.

I've seen this issue get so far into detail in some theoretical reports that it's exhausting lol
 
I think with synthetic music you pretty much have to do it intentionally, in which case you probably want the sound. I mean it's not necessarily bad.

For example lots of people are mad about constructing bass drums from layers, that could (almost certainly will) introduce phase weirdness but if that results in a drum sound that works then the phase cancellation / doubling might be contributing to it working.

One area that phase issues do creep in is beating with synths, which tends to be more pronounced with bassier sounds... which also happen to the sound that push the most air, so that can throw the mix out of wack.

Generally speaking though I have never stressed overly about it. If your mix is working (and mono compatibility isn't radically affecting the sound) then there are no phase issues by definition. Just avoid anything that's gonna phase things in the lower frequencies.


It's different with live because you are trying to recreate a real world sound that you can hear in a room but has to be capture through multiple mic. In that case things being out of phase is objectively wrong (if the real world is your standard).
 
Well OK but that's just passive aggression from a leading critic of other peoples' music despite providing no evidence of any musical talent.

Other people provider advice and samples of their own work so that anyone can decide for themselves if a persons production aesthetic works for them.

You on the other hand just string massive diatribe blog posts falsely titled 'tutorials' telling people what the gospel is.


So.. anyone reading this... up to you.
 
>>>>I think with synthetic music you pretty much have to do it intentionally, in which case you probably want the sound. I mean it's not necessarily bad.<<<<

Not necessarily true, although a "real recording" (with microphones or live instruments DI'd with microphones as well) certainly create more opportunities for phase issues. Anytime you have stereo sound, and doubling/chorusing, or the ever-elusive "wideness" that everyone is going for today, you have the possibility of phase problems. And of course, the other kind (as posted above)-- your speakers could be wired wrong as well.

>>>>For example lots of people are mad about constructing bass drums from layers, that could (almost certainly will) introduce phase weirdness but if that results in a drum sound that works then the phase cancellation / doubling might be contributing to it working.<<<<

I get what you mean. But if those bass drums are hitting at the same exact time (let's call that point "0"), then you will not have any phasing issues per se. BUT, you can create problems with all of that low frequency, whether it be phase-based or just not enough definition because you need more "EQ carving" due to all of the competition for that same freq. range. But yes, there is also a "desirable" range of phasing/comb filtering that occurs when you say, double a vocal track and pan it wide L & R, and set them off from each other a few clicks for "thickness." The questions are 1) Does it sound good to you? and 2) Does it still sound good to you in mono? Mono is the great arbiter. And before anyone says, "Yeah, but nobody listens in mono anymore!", I would say, "Hold on there, lil' buckaroo; there's plenty of mono out there in the wide world." Whether it's your music being played by a DJ in a live situation, or your backing track being used in-concert/in a club for an artist to perform with, your music over a live PA in between acts at a show, or in the bathroom at that club, at the gas station or in other retail promo settings, on a ear-bud-less iPod, or just about anytime someone steps far away enough from a stereo image, or out of the room when they can still hear the sound-- Bingo! Your track is in mono. And that is where the phasing issues really appear, as your big-fat-wide whatever tends to disappear or just sound like cheese-y crap when it folds into mono.

So, always check it out in mono and if it's good to go, you're good to go. Some people prefer to start their mixes in mono, only moving on from relative volume and EQ to stereo imaging, _after_ they have checked-out the mono mix.

If your monitor controller has a "mono" button, you are golden. Then it's easy to check it every once in awhile and move on. If not, you need to set something up to monitor your summed content on, whether it be one of the Auratone/Avantone mix cubes, or a single PA speaker, or a single monitor you have set-up for that. Before we got the current speaker control unit we have now (that has a "mono" button), I had one of these with a mono feed just so we could bounce back and forth (ok, can't find the Yorkville, but here's one sort of like it): Galaxy Audio MS5 Micro Spot 5 Passive Personal Monitor .

GJ
 
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Components being out of phase isn't an issue, it's a practically unavoidable part of music. Stereo is phase de-correlation.

A phase issue is only an issue if it has an undesired effect that when removed would improve the music.

That's why is hard to create them accidentally (in synthetic music) so long as you have a mix that you're happy with and have acceptable mono compatibility then you have no phase issues. No-one accidentally combines three kick drums, or accidentally adds a chorus plugin or accidentally uses unison.


P.S. adding two random kick drums to together, regardless of whether they start of the same time, can introduce phase quirks, up to and including the two completely cancelling each other out.
 
>>>>That's why is hard to create them accidentally (in synthetic music) so long as you have a mix that you're happy with and have acceptable mono compatibility then you have no phase issues.<<<<


Yes, I think I basically agreed with-- exactly that? Phrase high-lights added by me...

>>>>No-one accidentally combines three kick drums, or accidentally adds a chorus plugin or accidentally uses unison.<<<<

Hmm.

>>>>P.S. adding two random kick drums to together, regardless of whether they start of the same time, can introduce phase quirks, up to and including the two completely cancelling each other out.<<<<

Didn't you just say that it was impossible for that to happen accidentally???

GJ
 
What kind of DAW do you use because some have a build in phase meter that you can use to check if there are any phasing issues while layering the drums with the soft synths?
 
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