phase issues with "double tracking vocals" and finding space on the frequency spectru

[nqcowboy87]

phase issues with "double tracking vocals" and finding space on the frequency spectru

i have read these two articles
14 Ways to Achieve Mixing Clarity
Tips for Mixing Vocals to an Instrumental
as well as a few videos on youtube and im kind of getting the picture but im still kind of in the dark.

my first question is in some tracks such as carmada's maybe (off the top of my head) has vocals that seem to be an octave apart but playing at the same time, i always thought to achieve a chorus effect one would take one vocal track and nudge it a few ms in front of the other and pan one slightly left and one slightly right. this however apparently causes pphasing issues which is another thing despite reserarching im still a littler foggy on.

my next question is finding space on the frequency range for stuff to cut through. i have a real hard time getting my leads to cut through the mix, despite boosting at around 3-4k cutting the lows and then notching this frequency out of the bass line and midrange pads. in some songs i can also hear two distinct leads playing at the same time that dont seem to clash, i dont know maybe theyre boosted and notched with a small q level at two separate frequencies

 

[nqcowboy87]

 

[bandcoach]

so we are hearing at lest 4 vocal parts on the main vocal line 3 at pitch, one an octave above (sounds like it has been re-pitched (has that Mr Lonely quality to it) but could be done by falsetto)

there is a lot of phasing between each of the vocal takes which indicates to me that the original has simply been duped and shifted forwards or backwards by a few ms (this is not how you achieve chorusing)

chorusing is usually achieved by recording the same part multiple times with the inherent inaccuracies of pitch and timing that come with it - it is meant to reproduce the sound of many instruments/voices playing the same part at the same time, as in a chorus of singers or a violin section in an orchestra

to your second question

avoid the idea of carving out space in the frequency spectrum; you will waste a lot of time trying to achieve something that is best addressed by orchestration, level balance and panning: if you want two instruments to avoid clashing together then you need to consider whether you are using the instruments homophonically (chordally) or polyphonically (independent melodic lines)

chordally
if chordally then you need to consider whether the notes each line uses are far enough apart in terms of the overtone series and octave placement: e.g. if both are below the E below middle C and are playing different notes, these notes should be at minimum a 5th apart and preferably an octave or more apart.

Playing in unison is always permitted.

You may also want to consider panning placement so that they are heard to reinforce each other.

Level balance is also important to ensure that neither instrument overshadows the other or the rest of the mix

independent lines
if you have independent melodic lines then you need to use placement on opposite sides of the mix spectrum to ensure each line can be heard as an independent line.

Note choices also come into play but the point here is that octave placement is important as the lower you go the harder it is to ensure independent placement (freqs below about 100Hz are perceived to be coming from all directions - of course your upper harmonics in the instrument/sound do provide some directional cues as well, so apply the above idea with a handful of salt for traction)

because the lines are independent you can expect that there will be some melodic clashes when the lines approach other closely: the clashes should be intentional and resolve quickly - if they do not the lines have been poorly written and need to be recomposed

as with chordal lines, you need to use panning and level balance to give each instrument it's sonic space