My "scam" article - Partially inspired by events at this very forum.

  • Thread starter MASSIVE Mastering
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MASSIVE Mastering

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A situation came up a few months ago with a forum member looking for a "budget" mastering solution.

I'm really not certain how it all worked out... Long time ago...

Anyway, the place he was looking at (I'll avoid any names) had a bit of a "record" (no pun intended) of... let's call it a "boatload of outright bullsh*t" on his site. Phony gear list, phony samples, phony claims - But REALLY low prices! [fanfare] - [/fanfare]

Seeing that place come up (once again) here gave me a little drive to finish this particular article. I probably started it a year or more ago...

StudioReviews picked it up (I do a sheet here and there for them) a couple days ago and it's linked at the top of the page. Originally titled simply "Buyer Beware" - They've edited it a wisker, but it's pretty much all there...

Thought I'd share it here at FP -

http://www.studioreviews.com
 
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very nice discussion, oh these gear lists...

...you are right, gear-lists are not feature lists, they are wish-lists most of the time... ...and 50% of those don't even mention their speakers!!
 
It's not just Mastering sites that are a scam, it's quite possibly ANYTHING on the internet. I've seen scams with everything from CD-Rs to Hardware Hacks to people selling boxes instead of the product that is supposed to be in it.

Usually people aren't as internet savvy as they could be, so having a free site, no pictures, or a barebones site is not a good indicator of a company's business practices. Moreover, internet web site designers could be scammers themselves (not having the qualifications they say, displaying sites they didn't make, not having ANY clue as to what graphic design is, etc.) and a reputable business may be left with an ineffective, unsightly, or even unfunctionable web page. Now they have a site they have no idea how to fix, no money to fix, or even no knowledge to tell them it needs fixed.

Most internet scam artists have really nice sites actually! The pretty web page lures potential clients into believing the company image that the page represents. The common misconception is that scammers are freeloaders. The truth is the opposite. Usually scammers will have to convince you that they are legit, which is much harder to do with a garbage web site.

Even good engineers can advertise VERY low prices to get clients, only to raise the price once they have a clientele. It would be unfair to say that an engineer isn't good just because he doesn't charge much for said services. It's a labor of love, and for many that means helping others before helping themselves.

Also, just because someone has a bunch of great and expensive gear does not mean they know how to use it. Trust me, I've done work as a teaching assistant at the University here and even with all the gear, people are clueless. You can show them exactley what you're doing and still, they don't get it.

I know we are a bunch of musicians here, but let's use some logic and see how far we get!

As far as your article being unbiased, well, you ARE a Mastering facility. It's hard to believe anyone in Market trying to cut the business practices of others. Especially when the author is IN said market.

That being said, I am a communication major, so let me give you some advice on how to approach this.

You could have had a neutral party request the services of said business. Have them ask certain questions (do not tape record conversations because it is illegal and if you ask to record it you may get inaccurate results). Then you can use the experience to write an unbiased report on the information collected from the ordeal. If the product is quality in the end, you will know that the business is legitimate. If you get a mess of a product back, see how the company deals with the fact that you are unhappy.

You can't just go around saying someone is a scam artist if you don't have proof. A bad/cloned website on a free server is not an indication of this.

I just call and try talking to someone before doing any business with online companies. Tell them you are recording the conversation too if you like and see what their reaction is. A good business won't care and is probably recording YOU anyhow.
 
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Good read... But it just shows how whenever your trying to get sumthin for nuthin you leaving yourself open to getting ripped off
 
Nice read..
Having to choose an entry-level mastering solution surely is a pain:)

I like it when a studio emails you samples of what they will do to your tracks, so you can listen before you have to pay them. Not many studios do it though.
 
Breakbeats573 said:
As far as your article being unbiased, well, you ARE a Mastering facility. It's hard to believe anyone in Market trying to cut the business practices of others. Especially when the author is IN said market.

You can't just go around saying someone is a scam artist if you don't have proof. A bad/cloned website on a free server is not an indication of this.
Click to expand...
I see your point in there somewhere - It's not my intention to cut down other facilities - That article has P.O.'d more than a few scamastering guys already. This is about facilities that I know, for a fact, are falsely representing themselves. After a while, you just get a feel for it - Knowing who's legit and who's not. But I have enough specifc experience with enough of them to know that a surprising number of them aren't exactly the type of folks I'd want to send money (or copywrited material for that matter) to.

And when the website clone is mine - Or the photos of their rig are actually from a well-known facilitiy or the gear list is an obvious fraud that can be traced to another engineer, I dunno... I'd say that's a pretty good indication that they aren't exactly attempting to be "above the board" on things.
 
:)

i thought the article was very restrained. in the mastering community theres a lot of places that arent taken seriously and a few that seem quite big and established that have sites so full of misinformation and nonsense that it, on rotation, gives everyone a laugh or a moment of disbelief.

the flip side of this, and much less funny, is that the mystery surrounding it means that those looking for mastering, particularly demo people (the ones who most of all cant afford to be ripped off) cant cut through this fog or find out too late and this is where some issues lie.

gots no funk,
every ME has to prove himself to a new client atleast once. its a fact and so many will work on a track for free or at a very reduced rate to give you an idea. its much more accurate than web samples.
the only issue that comes out of this is that the best results come out of a process of interaction with the client, especially in the early stages with a new one, until each learns what the other needs and the ME gets a feel for how the clients descriptions translate into the physical product they envisage.

working a sample track removes this somewhat and while it can be good, its often less satisfactory than the proper process would be.

another point people need to remember is that ME's are in business. as such they often choose to get involved in projects for commercial reasons, sometimes for personal reasons and sometimes for technical ones.
working with some artists (from experience, though definately not all) with no label presence to intermediate can become an all consuming chore.
i get unsolicited contacts weekly from people along the lines of "i want my album mastered, its been my baby ive grown for the last 3 years, i'm extra critical of results and take huge amounts of time over each sound and mixing etc etc etc..."
while these folks maybe have a budget of $500 or so and ive done plenty of albums for that and less, i know from experience that they are going to be unrealistically demanding of my time just by nature.
i had one who insisited on 6 total reworking of fades, moving them by 2-3 frames until i eventually had to say he was going on the clock. never a nice thing.
theres plenty of people who cant let go and so i need to weigh up whether taking a few hundered dollars to master their album in deadtime is worth it. is it going to drag on and on with never ending microscopic alternations, then going back to a previous version etc.

as such when people contact any facility they have to quickly weight up a lot of factors that often arent especially apparent to outsiders.
while no one ever likes to turn work away, all do in some shape to protect their sanity or bank balance.
 
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One thing I always try to point out to people is that Mastering Engineers only do mastering.

If you got to some studio that does tracking mixing and ect andthey say they also do MAstering your are 9/10 out of 10 getting hustled.

Whenever people ask me to do mastering i always tell them I'm not a mastering Engineer. If yo dont have the budget for one I can help your CD and try tof ix some ofthe problems but understand that that is not my specialty. A Mastering is really a specialty. From the gear t the speakers the euipment and moreimportantly the training that a mastering engineers ears have are not the same as a regular studio where one records vocals end ect.

I think what is even more intresting has how most artists putting together there first few projects will spend No money on production or decent recording, like an hour a song on mixing and the be ready to go to the mastering house Cuz thats whats going to make it sound good lol..."Why even spend money on Mastering a product that has distorted vocals and alwful mixing. Just Burn it to CD and Sell it.


SPend the money on the mix and have some one who knows how to mix do the work. Mastering will bea breeze from there.The best Mixing engineers outthere harldy get touched in MAstering. THe masteringguy jsut looks at and says .. yup... Sound good. Heres my invoice.

Peace
GNX Music
http://www.gnxmusic.com
 
So honestly who would you guys consider to be actual legit cheap mastering engineers I've got a project I'm workin on but I'm trying to figure out who could master it any suggestions.
 
Wow... This was depressing...

I just browsed through a popular search engine and some of their advertisers on a one-word search ("mastering") and I gotta tell ya'...

I saw "budget" sites from here to Zanzabar that blew my mind... Overhyped corporate conglomerate looking sites charging $10 a song... Manley compressors ($5000), Crane Song converters ($3000), Weiss EQ's ($7500), Waves Diamond bundles ($4200), $12 per song.

Phony gear list? Yeah... I think so. Seriously - It cost me more than $12 in the long run in maintenance just to turn my gear on. MY rates are cheap (and are probably going up again in a few months) - THOSE rates are absurd.

Another site listed several "cornerstone" units, but left out the details on all the details. His gear photos not only didn't match any of the cornerstone pices, but the gear photos were obviously taken at a popular instrument & recording equipment store. Just his cornerstone pieces would run around $300,000 or so, plus operating costs, plus his monitors (something so immensely important to the mastering process somehow didn't make it to his gear list) and he's literally charging pennies on the dollar against any comparably equipped facility. I wonder if he's Santa Claus...

Unbelieveable... I wonder who they think they're fooling... I certainly hope no one is taking them seriously anyway...

So in short, I couldn't find anyone in the "low budget" category that I'd *trust* sending anything to. The guy I used to refer to closed up shop - The software pirates pretty much put him out of business. And that's a bummer... His rig was very modest, but he was VERY good at what he did.
 
Sorry - Double - Boy, this place has some issues once in a while...
 
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by links are you meaning of facilities anyone feels are less than honest with their setup and info?

if so id strongly suggest against this being done by anyone. from a legal standpoint its opening a whole can of worms that no-one wants to get into and this site certainly doesnt want either.
unfortunately in the legal system, knowing something even if its plainly obvious to all and it being proven in a court of law can have a huge chasm between them.
to therefor make statements without any concrete way to cross the chasm is always ill advised, even if everyone knows it to be true.

there would be ways around, involving some form of ambiguity in the statements around the links or a large disclaimer regarding personal opinion but its not worth the risk IMHO (theres still slander, defamation and all).
 
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Amen. I'm keeping my lawyer busy enough chasing down people "lifing" MY site.

Specific references I stay away from if at all possible. The best I hope to do is to help those who might not know what to look for a little something to watch out for.
 
a nice tip for all fake-MEs: don't steal pictures from the web, check this:
http://www.mercenary.com/funklogic.html

;)

but, to be honest i bought two of these units: the FUNK LOGIC 3P-III Palindrometer™ and the FUNK LOGIC Algorhythmic Prosecutor™. i heard really nice things about the FUNK LOGIC Digilog Dynamicator™, but i never had it in my studio. :D

no matter the sound is: my racks looks beautifull. :)
 
while i usually hang out on gearslutz.com, while i am here, i really appreciate having someone as experienced as Mr Scrip here on the site..

very nice article!
 
Massive,
I have been on this forum for a short amount of time but I have seen a lot of your posts. The article that you wrote on all of these "fake" mastering sites is extremely true. There is no cheap way to finalize work dome while recording. I will admit right now that I am no where near a seasoned pro at recording and find that everyday I learn something new about the tools I poses. I do not think at this point in my level of experience it would be good for me to say I am a mastering expert becuase it is not true. I find it upsetting that people think they can make money by cheaply taking money for work that does not have the quality of work done by professionals like people you mentioned and even yourself. I'm not trying to butter anyone up I'm merely calling the game as I see it. I just believe that quality work should be done by someone who is not properly trained. Even for myself I might try to see what kind of finalizing work I can do with my own projects but if I'm going to put out a cd I would rather go to someone like yourself and really spend the money for my projects to sound good.

I'm definately wanting to improve myself as a musician, producer, and engineer but I think it will take time. I thank you for your time and appreciate your sharing of experience with people like me.

AJD
 
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