Georgia_Boi
New member
I found my own solution.
Mix too quiet (with limiter)
- Thread starter Georgia_Boi
- Start date
Georgia_Boi
New member
I'm not. Common sense would tell me my mix is not getting louder at all just by using the ceiling. Notice I said earlier I would get about 4 db of gain reduction before it started distorting. If i was only lowering the ceiling, my mix would only get lower and there would be no gain reduction. For your info, my mix was getting louder, just not loud enough as I wanted. I found a solution though.
Last edited:
I know that you found a solution, but I just wanted to mention that if your beat is extremely heavy in the subs then you will have to sacrifice perceived loudness as subs eat up a ton of headroom and aren't perceived as very loud by our ears (the limiter doesn't care though). So those 808 subs can often be the issue.
Just to help us understand better, what was your solution?
Just to help us understand better, what was your solution?
Jon Neimeister
New member
Another thing to consider is that gain staging needs to happen throughout the signal path, not just at the limiter. Nothing in the chain should ever be clipping, so your EQ plugin clipping is a red flag, even if the channel itself isn't clipping. This might be where your distortion is coming from.
One solution might be to turn down the output signal of the EQ, but it could also be that you're distorting the input of the EQ plugin and need to reduce the gain of whatever plugins are preceding the EQ. As a general rule, every plugin in your signal chain should be using about 75% of its available dB, and if there's something wonky in the middle of your signal chain turning down the fader at the end of the chain will just make the problem quieter rather than fix it.
One solution might be to turn down the output signal of the EQ, but it could also be that you're distorting the input of the EQ plugin and need to reduce the gain of whatever plugins are preceding the EQ. As a general rule, every plugin in your signal chain should be using about 75% of its available dB, and if there's something wonky in the middle of your signal chain turning down the fader at the end of the chain will just make the problem quieter rather than fix it.
Niv Unity Levi
New member
dont TURN DOWN!
JohnnyDon't!
New member
Lots of good info here, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the level of a mix shouldn't matter as long as there's enough headroom for the mastering engineer to work with. I personally never let my mixes peak above -8db at the highest; most of the time I try to keep it down around -12db.
I almost never use a limiter on the master buss when bouncing down a mix, as it will only serve to either make the mastering engineer's job harder or even impossible. At least that's how everyone I've worked with in the past has done it. Limiting and other master buss processes lie in the mastering realm, not the mixing realm.
So my advice would be to remove all EQs, compressors, & limiters from yer master buss and bounce the mix down; then fly that hi-res stereo track back into yer DAW (or whatever you use for mastering) and boost the level/loudness that way. Someone already suggested something similar to that idea, but I just thought I could expand/clarify. And as always, there are really no hard rules about audio & recording: just do what works for you! That being said, the method I described above is what works for me.
Hope that helps!
I almost never use a limiter on the master buss when bouncing down a mix, as it will only serve to either make the mastering engineer's job harder or even impossible. At least that's how everyone I've worked with in the past has done it. Limiting and other master buss processes lie in the mastering realm, not the mixing realm.
So my advice would be to remove all EQs, compressors, & limiters from yer master buss and bounce the mix down; then fly that hi-res stereo track back into yer DAW (or whatever you use for mastering) and boost the level/loudness that way. Someone already suggested something similar to that idea, but I just thought I could expand/clarify. And as always, there are really no hard rules about audio & recording: just do what works for you! That being said, the method I described above is what works for me.
Hope that helps!
Hanwelvaarts
New member
I have the same problem, damn annoying
Official Papa Joe
New member
To be honest I mix my tracks without using a limiter. It gets rid of any possibility for distortion in the mix and then when you go to master the track then you add the limiter to add that boom to the track.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
First page...."You should be well out the red. Like peaking at -6 to -18db before applying the limiter. If not, you're probably not giving the limiter "room to breathe" and the ability to boost the signal to it's best potential."
GETRICH420
New member
Some of these plugins are tricky. Generally you never want anything to clip ever. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS but you shouldn't try something that complex, if you clip something VERY slightly you can get away with it and it might actually bring the sound out in the mix.
You are encountering something we all have problems with, loudness is insanely tricky sometimes. Most of the time you won't even be able to match professionally mix'd and mastered songs because they're using SSL's and outboard gear to achieve the sonic quality and loudness.
That being said, you can get close. Make sure you don't try to master a track before you mix it. Make sure you know how your plugins are working, they're all slightly different. Leave headroom and try to find something that works for you in your specific situation.
There are a ton of youtube videos that will help you, google search DIY mastering.
You are encountering something we all have problems with, loudness is insanely tricky sometimes. Most of the time you won't even be able to match professionally mix'd and mastered songs because they're using SSL's and outboard gear to achieve the sonic quality and loudness.
That being said, you can get close. Make sure you don't try to master a track before you mix it. Make sure you know how your plugins are working, they're all slightly different. Leave headroom and try to find something that works for you in your specific situation.
There are a ton of youtube videos that will help you, google search DIY mastering.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
^^^From my experience, most "loudness" we witness in this day and age is achieved with software. Part of the reasoning for veteran M.E.'s on outboard gear disliking alot of software for doing the job of squashing signals to ridiculous amounts and substituting quality for loudness.
These thresh/ceiling brickwalls(Waves L Series, Avid Maxim, iZotope Ozone, McDSP ML4000, ect.) don't exist in the same form in hardware. And as much as people want to believe pros gotta use stuff you don't have, these 2 slider software effect modules are more often than not the last things hitting top 40 records these days, FACT.
If you're not getting the same sound, it's more than likely not your gear(excluding monitors)and more than likely your knowhow.
And I could be wrong because I spend alot of time in front of software these days, but...I don't remember a real SSL board's make-up gain and comp bus creating "loudness" like the software versions do. One of the reasons I always found the software versions so inaccurate. Don't get me wrong, I could make something using Duende, Reason, Waves SSL, UAD, whatever and tell you it was done on a console and you'd more than likely not challenge it. Could be I know more now than I knew last in front of an SSL, but I remember those things sounding harsh when used to boost signals too much, while in software versions, it just goes along for the ride. And every boards different, so there's a ton of reasons I could be wrong, just never knew many to use it for final polish. Most guys i knew ran mixes from the SSL to a mastering chain. Alot of MEs swear by the channel strips for comp/EQ, but not so much for the final boosting of the signal. Again, no expert, haven't been in front of an SSL in at least 8 years now and been using software emulations the whole time, so my memory could be jaded.
These thresh/ceiling brickwalls(Waves L Series, Avid Maxim, iZotope Ozone, McDSP ML4000, ect.) don't exist in the same form in hardware. And as much as people want to believe pros gotta use stuff you don't have, these 2 slider software effect modules are more often than not the last things hitting top 40 records these days, FACT.
If you're not getting the same sound, it's more than likely not your gear(excluding monitors)and more than likely your knowhow.
And I could be wrong because I spend alot of time in front of software these days, but...I don't remember a real SSL board's make-up gain and comp bus creating "loudness" like the software versions do. One of the reasons I always found the software versions so inaccurate. Don't get me wrong, I could make something using Duende, Reason, Waves SSL, UAD, whatever and tell you it was done on a console and you'd more than likely not challenge it. Could be I know more now than I knew last in front of an SSL, but I remember those things sounding harsh when used to boost signals too much, while in software versions, it just goes along for the ride. And every boards different, so there's a ton of reasons I could be wrong, just never knew many to use it for final polish. Most guys i knew ran mixes from the SSL to a mastering chain. Alot of MEs swear by the channel strips for comp/EQ, but not so much for the final boosting of the signal. Again, no expert, haven't been in front of an SSL in at least 8 years now and been using software emulations the whole time, so my memory could be jaded.
Last edited:
GETRICH420
New member
Don't you think it's rude to ask for and receive help then just to say you found your own solution?
At least tell us what you did
At least tell us what you did
GETRICH420
New member
True stuff here, mostly it isn't the equipment and stuff it's just the know how. I completely agree, however professional engineers are going to know a lot more then you do about how to achieve a good mix and master and their not going to expose their secrets because like a magician thats what makes them good. I also exclusively use izotope and waves, I think those plugins are amazing.
Though I don't think a real mix engineer would ever substitute plugins for the real deal hardware.
Though I don't think a real mix engineer would ever substitute plugins for the real deal hardware.
Georgia_Boi
New member
Dumb ass, no I don't.
What would my plugin input clip if my track was low? SMH
It is what is it. First off, as I said, I found my own solution, which means I didn't get the answer from here to solve my problem. And its rude to post answers that are not helpful.Don't you think it's rude to ask for and receive help then just to say you found your own solution?
At least tell us what you did
Whatever
Last edited by a moderator:
Jon Neimeister
New member
... what? Are we supposed to be psychics that automatically know exactly what your problem might be based on vague text descriptions? Do you think we knew exactly what the answer was and just gave wrong answers cause we thought it was funny?
How about you try, "Thanks for your time, everyone! I figured out that the problem was so and so" instead of being a dick about it. Don't ask questions if you don't want answers.
Georgia_Boi
New member
First off don't tell me what to what to do. If you don't like what I say, you can stay off this post. I'm not going to argue with you.
Destinationup
New member
Nice don't go for they bullshit they quick to try to make people look like they dumb or try to condescend to people on this forum when people are only to learn.
Paschalis I.
MusicProductionTips.net
The before and after volume/gain when you bypass the plugin should be the same in your ears cause loudness might trick your ears.
The sound should never get clipped during recording , thats the most crucial thing. Then you must never clip the plugins.
Limiter has nothing to do with loudness. It's about controlling the dynamics. The limiter/maximizer on the mastering will decide your song's loudness.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
How does one not sound condescending when asked "how to make a mix loud using the tools to make a mix loud"? We're trying to figure out the problem and getting told all our answers have already been applied.
This is the equivalent of a muthaf**ka saying I'm thirsty as hell next to this river. Unless that river is full of toxic waste, I can't figure out the f**kin problem, lol.
Zerker00
New member
I find it funny how you repsond to my post previous and then give a rude comment man that disrespectful and disrepect will not get you no where.
Last edited: