LOUDNESS in RMS METERING!!!

What RMS Level do you like your tracks to be after mastering?

  • -20dBRMS

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • -12dBRMS

    Votes: 6 19.4%

  • -10dBRMS

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • -8dBRMS

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • -7dBRMS

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • -6dBRMS

    Votes: 6 19.4%

  • -5dBRMS

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • Total voters
    31
-18 to -10 RMS is a HUGE range IMO. Plenty for most modern music. I squish singles and promo cd's. I back off for albums.
 
Hi all, RMS level is just a meter reading, really one should be using their ears to make judgements. The "louder" you go the more the trade offs, the choice should be made when the least number of side effects are created vs acceptable competitive level for the exact mix that is being mastered, It will differ for every single mix.

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
Mastering
 
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BTW, a RMS measurement (and there a tons of different way to do this) is only loosely related to perceived loudness.

Both correlate to a certain amount, but there's no causality between them.

For example, a 10Hz sine at full level will roughly hit -3dB RMS - but it's neither really audible nor really loud. On the other hand, a 1kHz square wave at -12dB RMS will blast your head away (just an example).

It's even worse, inharmonic noise always sounds "louder" than pure tones (sine waves) and there are many other factors regarding "loudness" a simple RMS meter can't handle.

Don't base your decisions on measurement tools you don't understand. Use your ears and common sense, that's all you really need. Or at least take the time to read about all these meters and what they really do.

More loudness will not give you any kind of competition benefit. It's even the opposite, broadcast doesn't play squashed material (because it sounds ugly through their own loudness chain), DJ don't feature squashed tracks in mixes or club-nights because they are neither funny to mix, scratch or dance to and sound super ugly through the P.A. and most serious music customers deeply hate it.

Music needs room to breath. Music is all about contrast. Don't fvck it up by blindly squashing something to certain numbers.



NOBODY LIKES TO READ FULL CAPS TEXTS. THEY POP UP QUICKLY, BUT IMMEDIATELY BECOME BORING AND IRRELEVANT. IT'S THE SAME WITH MUSIC. WORDS LOSE THEIR SHAPE, THEY ARE MUCH HARDER TO READ. YOU'RE STILL READING ME? YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? NOTHING KICKS ANYMORE, IT'S NOW IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE FOCUS OR TO HIGHLIGHT ANY PASSAGE.

Something like THIS IS much more EFFECTIVE. Don't you think? ;)



Loudness is highly relative, your track needs both low-level and high density to surprise the listener (i.e. impress him with sudden loudness).
 
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Aw man, I like mine loud :p Does indeed depend on the track though. If I can get a good sounding -6 or -5, I'm a happy dude lol
 
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I was searching about this as well. Would like see more thoughts about this issue from you guys.

---------- Post added 03-02-2011 at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was 03-01-2011 at 11:57 PM ----------

I was searching about this as well. Would like see more thoughts about this issue from you guys.

---------- Post added at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 AM ----------

I was searching about this as well. Would like see more thoughts about this issue from you guys.

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------

I was searching about this as well. Would like see more thoughts about this issue from you guys.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 AM ----------

I was searching about this as well. Would like see more thoughts about this issue from you guys.

---------- Post added at 12:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 AM ----------

I was searching about this as well. Would like see more thoughts about this issue from you guys.

---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 AM ----------

I was searching about this as well. Would like see more thoughts about this issue from you guys.
 
-5 dB can be OK on laptop speakers. But something around -10 dB RMS is usually much better on serious sound systems.
 
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Is there anybody else that doesn't even measure their RMS? I just copy a reference track until I am happy with it.
 
moses said:
BTW, a RMS measurement (and there a tons of different way to do this) is only loosely related to perceived loudness.

Both correlate to a certain amount, but there's no causality between them.

For example, a 10Hz sine at full level will roughly hit -3dB RMS - but it's neither really audible nor really loud. On the other hand, a 1kHz square wave at -12dB RMS will blast your head away (just an example).

It's even worse, inharmonic noise always sounds "louder" than pure tones (sine waves) and there are many other factors regarding "loudness" a simple RMS meter can't handle.

Don't base your decisions on measurement tools you don't understand. Use your ears and common sense, that's all you really need. Or at least take the time to read about all these meters and what they really do.

More loudness will not give you any kind of competition benefit. It's even the opposite, broadcast doesn't play squashed material (because it sounds ugly through their own loudness chain), DJ don't feature squashed tracks in mixes or club-nights because they are neither funny to mix, scratch or dance to and sound super ugly through the P.A. and most serious music customers deeply hate it.

Music needs room to breath. Music is all about contrast. Don't fvck it up by blindly squashing something to certain numbers.



NOBODY LIKES TO READ FULL CAPS TEXTS. THEY POP UP QUICKLY, BUT IMMEDIATELY BECOME BORING AND IRRELEVANT. IT'S THE SAME WITH MUSIC. WORDS LOSE THEIR SHAPE, THEY ARE MUCH HARDER TO READ. YOU'RE STILL READING ME? YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? NOTHING KICKS ANYMORE, IT'S NOW IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE FOCUS OR TO HIGHLIGHT ANY PASSAGE.

Something like THIS IS much more EFFECTIVE. Don't you think? ;)



Loudness is highly relative, your track needs both low-level and high density to surprise the listener (i.e. impress him with sudden loudness).
Click to expand...

I completely agree, although for mastering engineer lots of times artist dictate where the level should be, since comparing it to whats outthere on the charts
 
Interesting poll results. There's a "quiet people" bell curve, and then outside the range of that bell curve is a "loud people" spike.
 
Morning_Star said:
-10 is the highest I ever go. I stick to about -18 to -14 ish.
Click to expand...
It depends on the music, the mix, the room and a whole bunch of small detail items by the time I'm ready to print.

Hell, I've noticed I prefer hotter mixes if I drink two red bulls.

All that to say, it just depends.

My last mix was about -10dBRMS TRUE RMS on digital Dorrough meters.
 
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Do RMS metering on CD hits over the years. Lots and lots of great sounding hits were only at -16 to -12 dB RMS. Use THAT as a point of reference.
 
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