leveling percussions in a hip hop mix

[StanleySteamer]

Hey guys quick question, how would you guys says is a general rule of thumb for mixing percussions in a hip hop mix? For example, if my kick and snare are around -15db how much lower should my Hi-Hat/Open-Hat/Crash/Chant/Clav/Etc be? Lately I have been doing like -5db lower so lets say kick and snare at -15db and then hi-hats and stuff at -20db and it sounds so loud as I go back over my song I feel like but I'm not sure if lower it down I will lose its presence. Anyways any feedback much appreciated thanks a lot guys!

 

[Underminded]

This is a really good guideline to follow: The Low End Mix Trick | The Recording Revolution

The first mix I tried with this removed hours of subsequent gain staging to get my mix just right. By getting balance in the low end of your mix you can easily modify your snares and hats and other percussive instruments based on your low end.

The genre of the song is also an important factor. Note what instruments stand out in professional mixes. Once you get the low end just right using the method above, you can bring in the rest of the song starting with the rest of the percussive instruments, then vocals, then long tailed instruments like pads etc.

Spend time gain staging before you start eqing and compressing. Once you are confident your levels are just right, eq and compression will be a breeze. Also, VU meters are very handy for vocals.

 

[StanleySteamer]

This is a really good guideline to follow: The Low End Mix Trick | The Recording Revolution

The first mix I tried with this removed hours of subsequent gain staging to get my mix just right. By getting balance in the low end of your mix you can easily modify your snares and hats and other percussive instruments based on your low end.

The genre of the song is also an important factor. Note what instruments stand out in professional mixes. Once you get the low end just right using the method above, you can bring in the rest of the song starting with the rest of the percussive instruments, then vocals, then long tailed instruments like pads etc.

Spend time gain staging before you start eqing and compressing. Once you are confident your levels are just right, eq and compression will be a breeze. Also, VU meters are very handy for vocals.

So I tried this method you spoke of and it definitely helped but still having a few issues with my mix. First of all, how much lower than my drums should my percussions actually? I feel like most songs they sound around -10db maybe even more lower. I am mainly having trouble with finding a good balance between kick/snare and then the sample volume vs the kick/snare. If you could help me out maybe by telling what I should generally be doing? For example, if my kick is -10db should my snare also be -10db or should it be -5db lower? Or vice versa, should the snare be 5db louder? And where the does the sample fit in if I sampled a song? Should it be as loud as and the same level as my drums, lower, or louder? Feed back always appreciated thanks a lot!

 

[Laureat Ramadani]

the way I work, I always start with the kick drum: i keep it -6 DB
and about other tracks I simply try to bring up a pleasant presence

now some tracks that may create troubles on me like masking other sounds like saw pads I try to keep them more distant sometimes I may lose its presence but you have to choose between PAD or the FINAL MIX I don't care about the PAD

I reduce the volume of the tracks until I start to feel I am comfortable with that and there is a good enough presence, if I feel I lost too much presence I try +2 db back, +3 db back, +4, +5 and so

you need to understand that nobody has magical ears so if you cannot tell a difference between 2 db , its because nobody can tell the difference so don't be too hard on yourself when it comes to 2 db difference decisions

but when it comes to 8 Db that is too much difference, it is something that even the fans may tell you that your snare sounds too low compared to the kick , but that doesn't mean you should never go beyond 8 db difference is just that to make sure because when you play a sound on 0 db and -8 db that is too much difference

 

[Underminded]

So I tried this method you spoke of and it definitely helped but still having a few issues with my mix. First of all, how much lower than my drums should my percussions actually? I feel like most songs they sound around -10db maybe even more lower. I am mainly having trouble with finding a good balance between kick/snare and then the sample volume vs the kick/snare. If you could help me out maybe by telling what I should generally be doing? For example, if my kick is -10db should my snare also be -10db or should it be -5db lower? Or vice versa, should the snare be 5db louder? And where the does the sample fit in if I sampled a song? Should it be as loud as and the same level as my drums, lower, or louder? Feed back always appreciated thanks a lot!

Its really hard to give exact numbers here. You need to develop trust in your ears by listening to your favourite mixes and working out the levels by experimenting. There is no one rule fits all because every mix is different and everyone has different tastes.

the way I work, I always start with the kick drum: i keep it -6 DB
and about other tracks I simply try to bring up a pleasant presence

now some tracks that may create troubles on me like masking other sounds like saw pads I try to keep them more distant sometimes I may lose its presence but you have to choose between PAD or the FINAL MIX I don't care about the PAD

I reduce the volume of the tracks until I start to feel I am comfortable with that and there is a good enough presence, if I feel I lost too much presence I try +2 db back, +3 db back, +4, +5 and so

you need to understand that nobody has magical ears so if you cannot tell a difference between 2 db , its because nobody can tell the difference so don't be too hard on yourself when it comes to 2 db difference decisions

but when it comes to 8 Db that is too much difference, it is something that even the fans may tell you that your snare sounds too low compared to the kick , but that doesn't mean you should never go beyond 8 db difference is just that to make sure because when you play a sound on 0 db and -8 db that is too much difference

I'd have to disagree with you there. Any mastering engineer will tell you even 0.5 dbfs in gain can make a big difference. While it does take a trained ear to hear such a difference in mixing, subtle changes can affect the overall balance of a track. However, 3 db increments are a good place to start. I urge you to try an experiment on a mix with an element that stands out. Turn your volume down until that element is the only thing you can hear and drop the gain in small amounts like 2 dB or less. I bet you will hear the difference then.

 

[Laureat Ramadani]

people try to sell themselves as best possible so sure they try to make themselves look like they have magical ears and tell things that may f** your belief system and lead you to never have confidence to finish a mix

1. I would believe on that if these " pro-audio engineers " would not be using all those tools like spectrum visualizers but all of your favorite guys out there use these tools you know why? because they have no idea how loud one track is so they need the tools to work with

2. if you just put your mix here on the forum and ask everyone how good my mix is, it is not like you will get answers like you should play your bass +2 db + 6 db, -3 db , why? because nobody can f-kin tell exactly how loud is that sound in the first place and how louder they want it,

3. and the most important is that I myself when I try to reduce something for 2 db I can hardly hear any difference, it only happens when I go 3 db, 4, so if i cannot tell a difference of my own track that I am working with, and so much critical thinking how can someone else tell?

 

[Underminded]

people try to sell themselves as best possible so sure they try to make themselves look like they have magical ears and tell things that may f** your belief system and lead you to never have confidence to finish a mix

1. I would believe on that if these " pro-audio engineers " would not be using all those tools like spectrum visualizers but all of your favorite guys out there use these tools you know why? because they have no idea how loud one track is so they need the tools to work with

2. if you just put your mix here on the forum and ask everyone how good my mix is, it is not like you will get answers like you should play your bass +2 db + 6 db, -3 db , why? because nobody can f-kin tell exactly how loud is that sound in the first place and how louder they want it,

3. and the most important is that I myself when I try to reduce something for 2 db I can hardly hear any difference, it only happens when I go 3 db, 4, so if i cannot tell a difference of my own track that I am working with, and so much critical thinking how can someone else tell?

I'm glad to hear you found your own system. There is no need to disrespect other people's opinion though. Clearly you need to do some more research because spectrums and meters only tell a piece of the sonic story. Your ears are the final judge and I am sorry you are so closed minded.