How do I make a kick sound powerful without having bass?

andycii

New member
Title pretty much says it all. I just want to know how some pop producers make a kick sound pretty loud and powerful but it doesn't really have a huge bass effect.

Also, how do you monitor how powerful the kick will be? Everytime I export a project at what I think is a good kick volume level, I go and play it in my car and the speakers actually shake at a relatively low volume.

Any advice would be great!
 
What do you define as powerful? (give an audio example)

I typically use a reference track when struggling to achieve a particular sound on my own. EQ, compression, and limiting may be good tools to start with.
 
Get a spectrum analyzer eq to see the kick power. take out everything in the kick below 60hz to get rid of that shakiness. and boost a bit around 80-90. take out the highs too for a nice sounding kick. a compressor can take out the peak too for a nice sound.
 
Focus on the attack of the kick. If you don't have enough attack, use a transient plug to increase it slightly, or use a comrpessor with a 5ms (ish) attack to create a stronger transient. As always, some kick sounds are punchier than others in this category. To get more punchy power, boost somewhere between 1kHz and 3.5kHz. I find it's usually around 2-3kHz. As always, highly dependent upon the kick sound you start out with.
 
sample selection counts for a lot of it. if you start with a weak sample, it will be harder to process it to sound good. but if you just start out with a powerful kick sample you won't need to do much to it. and of course you can layer samples.
 
That's a good question, a punchy kick with out the subbass like one of those dnb kicks is something I've been pondering recently.
layering a rock drum with a punchy 808 then getting rid of stuff that's not 200-600hz was an idea but not positive of outcome.
 
Get a spectrum analyzer eq to see the kick power. take out everything in the kick below 60hz to get rid of that shakiness. and boost a bit around 80-90. take out the highs too for a nice sounding kick. a compressor can take out the peak too for a nice sound.

I'm sorry, but what the hell is kick power? Not trying to be rude, but I assure you a spectrum analyzer can only help you so much (which is usually not at all). A spectrum analyzer will not tell you how something sounds, it will simply tell you about frequency content. It doesn't tell you the formant. It can't tell the difference between a cello and a guitar. It doesn't account for resonance. Furthermore, cutting below 60hz to get rid of shakiness is only applicable if he has shakiness below 60 hz. Taking out the highs for a nice sounding kick is also subjective.


Focus on the attack of the kick. If you don't have enough attack, use a transient plug to increase it slightly, or use a comrpessor with a 5ms (ish) attack to create a stronger transient. As always, some kick sounds are punchier than others in this category. To get more punchy power, boost somewhere between 1kHz and 3.5kHz. I find it's usually around 2-3kHz. As always, highly dependent upon the kick sound you start out with.

I think this is good advice, and I'd like to add to it. It is a huge pet peeve of mine when I don't think the transient of a kick is punchy enough, but sometimes it's not the kick sample itself. It could be the timing of other things. The weird thing about punchy kicks is it may not be punchy across the frequency spectrum. It might just be punchy in the highs or mids. And other things hitting in that area can make the transient sound weird. Culprits I've had are clean electric guitars or cymbals with pronounced transients. If you boost the transient of a kick and it doesn't seem to be punchier, try taking out the transients of other things, or nudging them forward. A cymbal can hit a few MS after a Kick drum and no one will notice, but the kick will sound more powerful and the cymbal will still hit at roughly the same time (assuming the cymbal was a problem in the first place).

sample selection counts for a lot of it. if you start with a weak sample, it will be harder to process it to sound good. but if you just start out with a powerful kick sample you won't need to do much to it. and of course you can layer samples.

This is also true. Having a not punchy kick drum to begin with just means you'll need to work at it. At the same time, if you have a kick drum that sounds punchy and yet it doesn't in your song, than you are putting it in a context in which something is stepping on its transient.

I think you are looking for at least some lows, even though you said you aren't. I just want to make sure you're being objective about punchy. Terms like warmth and crisp can be very abstract sometimes, and I feel like a lot of people just pretend to know what it sounds like, but punch and fat are some objective terms to work with. It's essentially what Chris Carter is getting at. Attack versus sustain. Punch is when a sound is loud, and loses volume quickly. The transient is that first 10ms or so of a sound: the snap of a snare, the consonant of a vocal. It sounds like, to an extent, you aren't just looking for punch, but a little bit of low mid to beef it up, and you feel that without it, the kick doesn't seem punchy (boy I'd love an example). But a kick can be highpassed all the way to 800 and still technically be punchy. It won't make a club shake but it's punchy. Vocals can be punchy too. Punchy vocals are often what come through a dense mix. Those exaggerated consonants poke through dense beats and we sort of fill in the rest for the vowels, which will be much lower in volume.

Arguably, any content below 30hz is not musical and not worth your time. I don't know many people that will debate that, but there may be a few.

More importantly, music is about contrast, and if you want a kick drum to seem punchy without having too much low end, that means the rest of your track has to have even less low end (for the most part). For example, a kick drum with a good amount of low frequency content that has no other sound around it other than a bright synth sounds nice and low. However, that same kick drum hitting at the same time with a piano left hand playing full chords, a bass guitar, and a didgeridoo does not sound like a low end kick at all. The whole thing sounds like a mess of shit, and, to be fair, part of that is because we hear low end in a much different way than anything else on the frequency spectrum. But you could do the same thing with high end. I have never heard anyone praise Flying Lotus's high end, and that's because it's often a mess of sounds. He doesn't do clarity. He doesn't mix for clarity (I honestly don't even know if he mixes his tracks, per se). But his low end is usually spot on, because he leaves it relatively open. Usually just kick and bass, and the bass is usually side-chained to the kick for a lot of compression, so even those items are separated.

So when you think about punch and power, thinking about that kick is important, but it is equally important to think about what is around that kick.

Lastly, and I'm assuming you already don't clip in your DAW, but you need headroom for punch. Because of the nature of punch, a transient being much louder than the rest of the sound, it is going to peak higher than we interpret the volume level to be at (since our DAW's dont measure how we actually perceive loudness). This is versus a sub bass with sustain all the way up. It's just going to peak at a certain point and stay there. So we need headroom. The good news is, headroom is easy with 24 bit recording and not having headroom is one of the dumbest problems anybody has ever had in the digital world. So as long as you're working with a lot of headroom, punch is attainable.
 
Three things come to mind - gain staging, cutting out lows, and monitoring.

Gain staging - For a long time I would have trouble getting my kicks to hit nice without sounding distorted or too bassey, and the problem was the track was already peaking at 0db before I tried to get the kick right. Once I started bringing my individual tracks down to like -18db while I was producing, all I had to do if I wanted the kick to hit harder was turn the volume up, and I didn't have to worry about the transients being chopped off by the mixbus limiter. Once you get the volume at a level you want, your transients will probably be a little too spikey (but still not reaching 0db on the master fader) so you just tame them a little bit with a compressor. This way, you have the kick thumping, and its not getting destroyed by the mixbus limiter.

Too much lows - I've been messing with music for like 10 years, and I'm just now starting to get a handle on my kicks. I just started realizing the kick thump is rarely in the very low area below 50 and 60, so don't go boosting that area as a first way to get the sound you're looking for, especially if there is an 808 or bass fighting with it. Try high passing it or shelving it, then turn it up, then compress the peak a little bit. That way, you have the amplitude you're looking for without the powerful sub frequencies that destroy speakers and mixes. Also, I almost always use a guitar amp plugin on my kicks.. it just adds a tone to it that really gives it energy.

Monitoring - One of the most important factors in a good mix. I'm not just talking about speakers either, as a matter of fact it's not really about the speakers its about the room. If you're mixing in an untreated room then don't even bother trying to get the low end right. Hell, it's hard enough to get the low end right in a treated room. Headphones are not easy to mix lows in either. If your car has a subwoofer in it, and you're used to hearing rap music like that, then anything you try to mix on short of a club PA system is going to mess with you because you're going to try to make your monitors hit like your car, and you're going to overdo it. If this is the case, then bring your laptop in the car and mix your bass in there. I do that all the time and it gets me closer the final product on the low end than a treated studio or anything else I try. The next best thing I've learned is to mix your low end while your speakers are in mono, and then turn off one speaker. This works best with crappy speakers that emulate low quality sound systems. Give that a whirl.
 
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