Doubling & Quadrupling vocals and more

HarHar

New member
Hi guys,

I've been producing my own pop-dance singles for a bit, I'm working on my 7th now. Just yesterday my sound engineer said that if I want huge, wide vocals then he needs 4 recordings of the same vocal parts, to equal those present on famous tunes on the radio such as taylor swift etc...

Now I will do that no problem but anyone knows what else needs to be doubled or quadrupled in a song? Like hi-hats, snaps, drums, kicks, synths or else? Bass? In order to better manage the positions of the sounds left right back and front.

My question is, before giving the finished project to a sound engineer, should I double almost everything? Real doubling I mean, not cloning.

Thanks
Harry
 
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No. No, no, no.

Doubling is a specific effect for specific purposes and if you overdo it, you will have a mess. Definitely not bass and hi-hat and basic tracks.

Ask your engineer to provide examples, or better yet, _you_ give him or her examples of what you'd like your mix to sound like.

GJ
 
PS-- Real doubling is good for added thickness on things like vocal harmonies and choruses. But "cloned" doubles are also an easy way to get the effect, by copying/pasting/sliding a few ticks to get an offset and the chorused/combed sound. Play around with it yourself and _you_ decide. But don't blindly follow suggestions without knowing the affect/consequences.

GJ
 
PS-- Real doubling is good for added thickness on things like vocal harmonies and choruses. But "cloned" doubles are also an easy way to get the effect, by copying/pasting/sliding a few ticks to get an offset and the chorused/combed sound.

That true, but i'd prefer real recorded doubles over clone & slide any day. With real doubles you can actually achieve a lot more, like singing left & right panned vocals 1 octave higher etc. If you clone & slide u'll only get that chorused / combed sound like u said. Its not bad too, but less versatile.

Take care,
best regards.
 
Yes, again, it depends on what you want to achieve, and also the skill of the singer(s) in question (and the producer's ability to coach/arrange vocals).

Sometimes the easiest way is the best way. Lots of variables involved.

GJ
 
As your audio engineer defined, he needs to have quadruple vocals so just go for it nothing else. You may also find it better to do the harmonics, eg: when you sing in C dur, try the first note to be C, then second to be 4 halfsteps higher i.e. E, then 7 highsteps higher i.e G, then 12 halfsteps higher i.e. C.
 
In other words 1, 3, 5, 8ve...

Yes, if you want a major chord as the harmony. But the OP was talking "doubling." Different thing than what this discussion is becoming about, apparently.

GJ
 
Yeah, but he stated that he does a pop/ dance song, so why not go for a little brainstorm and give him other ideas that fit well for the genre?

Cheers,

Emedee
 
As long as we're not getting too confusing. "Unlimited choice is the enemy of productivity."

GJ
 
Thank you guys for the advises. Nice one on the harmonies. I've also heard about doubling the kick (not cloned) is also quite a normal thing to do in pop-dance music, did you ever tried it before even in non dance environment?
Also to clarify, I said that it may be best for me to double everything before handing the project to the sound engineer just to give him everything he needs and more, then he can always delete them if not needed, he's a very busy guy and if I gave him a project he better be mega complete or he will postpone it and finish it too late, I'm working on releasing a single a month, so time is a big issue.

I listen to those crazy huge singles made by major labels and think how the hell do they make the sound so massive? Doubling or quadrupling is one obvious guess... then it must be due to a lot of mixing and mastering work I suppose. I'm spending £100 a song and can't complain...
I can ask him a few advises but also want hear more.

I'm releasing that song, where he needed more vocal doubles, exactly tomorrow. I'll throw the link in if it's possible.

Thanks
 
I was told this by a teacher at college. Doubling vocals was good and to sing it again. I said, "why not just cut and paste?" and was told not to.

So if you sing it again and slightly sing a word with a slightly different emphasis or what have you it can make the vocal untidy but if you sing it identically again then you're it will be the same as just copy and pasting. So what's the reason it should be recorded again and not cut and pasted?
 
Because a more natural doubling/thickening effect (it's called "chorusing") occurs with multiple takes. The slight imperfections actually help. But many people just cut & paste as well nowadays. And you can also experiment with a "chorus" effect, which is just a somewhat tight delay/time-based effect.

But please-- Don't waste your time doubling every instrument! It's just not done and you're talking about time constraints. Layering is a little different from doubling, but as a general rule, no, don't double all of the parts. The guy is going to want choices, but not want to be burdened with jettisoning 100 extra unnecessary tracks!

GJ
 
Thank you guys for the advises. Nice one on the harmonies. I've also heard about doubling the kick (not cloned) is also quite a normal thing to do in pop-dance music, did you ever tried it before even in non dance environment?
Also to clarify, I said that it may be best for me to double everything before handing the project to the sound engineer just to give him everything he needs and more, then he can always delete them if not needed, he's a very busy guy and if I gave him a project he better be mega complete or he will postpone it and finish it too late, I'm working on releasing a single a month, so time is a big issue.

I listen to those crazy huge singles made by major labels and think how the hell do they make the sound so massive? Doubling or quadrupling is one obvious guess... then it must be due to a lot of mixing and mastering work I suppose. I'm spending £100 a song and can't complain...
I can ask him a few advises but also want hear more.

I'm releasing that song, where he needed more vocal doubles, exactly tomorrow. I'll throw the link in if it's possible.

Thanks

I think you are simply trolling. I have never heard of quadrupling vocals, doubling kick for pop-dance music, and doubling everything is just completely crazy. Your whole post is inconsistent.

Emedee
 
the whole point of this forum is to get advices if you think people come here to take the piss then it's your problem, I'm asking stuff, if not welcomed then see ya ladies and gents.
 
It depends on how the instrument sounds. Many times I double the snare for a hard rock song because it usually isn't loud enough to cut through the guitars. Everyone rock doubles guitars. Synth doubling is common. I've never doubled the bass.
 
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