Bass mixing - Having wide bass and mono kick, does it reduce freq conflict?

S

squidman90

squiddy
hey there

I'm trying to get a better bass mix, in regards to a kick and bass masking each other frequencies. Now I know everyone says the bass and kick should always be centre in a mix, but if you listen (or view in mid-side spec analyser) to heaps of tracks especially electronic music the bassline is most often quite wide . My question is, does giving a bassline stereo width (by either time delay or phase trick) therefore leaving the middle hollow for a mono kick, make the mix a lot clearer in regards to masking each other frequencies?, or at the end of the day the left and right speakers are both playing them frequencies so no.

thanx matt
 
squidman90 said:
hey there

I'm trying to get a better bass mix, in regards to a kick and bass masking each other frequencies. Now I know everyone says the bass and kick should always be centre in a mix, but if you listen (or view in mid-side spec analyser) to heaps of tracks especially electronic music the bassline is most often quite wide . My question is, does giving a bassline stereo width (by either time delay or phase trick) therefore leaving the middle hollow for a mono kick, make the mix a lot clearer in regards to masking each other frequencies?, or at the end of the day the left and right speakers are both playing them frequencies so no.

thanx matt
Click to expand...

No, since its hard to tell low frequencies direction anyway.
I would suggest low frequencies should stay in the middle
Stereo bass sounds different mostly because of higher frequencies.
Most engineers don't do it,
I know EDM artists do it a lot more.
Anyway, try separate kick and bass using the high frequencies and different smples of the kick
 
I would ALWAYS keep frequencies below like 150hz in mono. I know a guy at my college has a program which does this on the master channel. The phase-trick on bass is definitely a bad idea IMO. Might sound good on a stereo system but in mono could drown the whole mix out...

You could split the bass into highs and lows. Keep the lows (sub) mono and then use some stereo-widening on the highs of the bass (if there is any lol)
 
You CAN do stereo work in sub frequencies, but understand it's a technically difficult process and really only worth it in rare situations. It also won't really help with kick & bass separation.
 
It's considered bad practise by proper engineers. But that's probably all the more reason to do it. I find most 'properly engineered' music boring as shit to be honest ;)
Also, if people listen to music on crappy speakers, you don't really have to take their musical opinions seriously.

All in all, it really depends on what kind of sound you're looking for. How prominent does your bass sound have to be, what range does it cover? Pure subs really sound best in mono, but anything else can be panned all over the place. If you go crazy with it you may still want to layer in a mono sub, or sidechain lower frequencies into a mono channel to keep the weight and energy up. But then again, maybe you're just looking for a subtle foundation for the rest of the track to sit on, don't go crazy then! A lot of great house in my opinion relies on NOT overdoing the bass and trying to be heavy to get the smooth and luxurious sound in a big room.
 
What you probably are hearing is the bass synth(s) all wide and stereo, but the main sub frequencies are summed to mono. You can go as crazy as you want to with the stereo width on the bass synth as long as the bass is in mono.

If not and the sub is actually in stereo, they've probably used some smart technique to let the the side-part of the sub-frequencies cancel eachother out as soon as they are combined together, leaving only the mid-part, so the sub still sounds smooth when the track is played in mono (such as cutting away all of the mid-mix in some m/s-processors on a separate subbass except the main subbass that is in dead mono).
 
Mossmade Beatz said:
I would ALWAYS keep frequencies below like 150hz in mono. I know a guy at my college has a program which does this on the master channel. The phase-trick on bass is definitely a bad idea IMO. Might sound good on a stereo system but in mono could drown the whole mix out...

You could split the bass into highs and lows. Keep the lows (sub) mono and then use some stereo-widening on the highs of the bass (if there is any lol)
Click to expand...

ive just started putting a frequency splitter on my master and it was set to make anything 180 and below into mono, just tried 150 and below and it sounds tighter i think

Is 150 and below the best number for this mono/stereo splitting? going to have a play around now but wondered if there is any golden rule on this?
 
Sk1nZ said:
ive just started putting a frequency splitter on my master and it was set to make anything 180 and below into mono, just tried 150 and below and it sounds tighter i think

Is 150 and below the best number for this mono/stereo splitting? going to have a play around now but wondered if there is any golden rule on this?
Click to expand...

I don't think there's really a magic number, depends on the track.

Something else you can try (it may sound a bit more smooth or natural maybe?) is to use a mid-side EQ to do the same thing.

Make a high pass for the side channel with a very smooth curve and pull it up to 150-200hz or somewhere around there. You effectively take away the low end in the side channel. I use smooth curves because I think it sounds more natural to do a slight roll off, but you can experiment.

Just another way to skin the cat :)

As far as the OP's original question, and as everyone else has alluded to, separating your bass and kick that way will not reduce conflict.
 
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