is it all in the mixing?

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prodeucer

New member
This question may be genre specific. Let's say this is about electronic and hip hop music music (or any music that relies heavily on electronic instruments). So the presets of synthesizers already sound great, so tracking then would be easy with programming and MIDI, etc. "Performance" may come in to play but I would think this is regarding vocal takes only. The background music is generally drony and or repetitive (common in electronic music and hip hop). So that would be an easy cut n paste work with even just 30-60 seconds of recorded material to build a 3 minute song. So then comes mixing; if tracks aren't mixed properly then it wouldn't fall into place the way you expected it.

If you recorded in a multi million dollar studio but the mixing wasn't done right, it would come out as garbage either way right? So is it all in the mixing is my question?
 
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no, composition, mixing & mastering. each have their purpose. If all 3 are not on the same level, the track won't be at its highest level.

Good composition + bad mix = ok but not amazing.

Good mix + bad composition = chill, but gets boring after a while


It's not about the gear "studio", it's about the engineer.
 
to paraphrase

shit-in = shit-out, no matter what you do in between, no matter how good the gear is
 
The mix would be the icing on the cake. A good composition needs good mixing. You're top notch composition will fall victim to loss of interest if the mix is lackluster. It'll be meh in comparison to decent compositions with top notch mixing.

To answer you're question, it's not all in the mix, the composition is equally important. The average listener should get and should want the package deal.
 
The composition is the most important part of all. The sounds you use and how you use them is what matters most. No amount of mixing will make up for a bad composition as said above, a shitty song will always sound like a shitty song no matter how you mix it. That's not to say you can't ruin a great composition with horrible mixing but the mix won't turn your sounds and arrangement into something it's not.
 
prodeucer said:
This question may be genre specific. Let's say this is about electronic and hip hop music music (or any music that relies heavily on electronic instruments). So the presets of synthesizers already sound great, so tracking then would be easy with programming and MIDI, etc. "Performance" may come in to play but I would think this is regarding vocal takes only. The background music is generally drony and or repetitive (common in electronic music and hip hop). So that would be an easy cut n paste work with even just 30-60 seconds of recorded material to build a 3 minute song. So then comes mixing; if tracks aren't mixed properly then it wouldn't fall into place the way you expected it.

If you recorded in a multi million dollar studio but the mixing wasn't done right, it would come out as garbage either way right? So is it all in the mixing is my question?
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Composition -> Recording (or quality of recorded samples if you're using samples) -> Mixing -> Mastering.

That's usually the chain. 50 tracks of low end no matter how good they're sounding won't any good if they are playing together.

I'm sure you get the point :)
 
You can't do a great mix to a bad composition, assuming the artist insist on keeping all the tracks open
If the customer agrees, the mix engineer might close some of the channels that doesn't work, even lowering them down and make them small might work.
So basically mix engineers can help is composition somehow, since they control mute and volumes
But it's not all about the mix in my opinion
 
Here's how much the composition matters.

When mixing engineers can't find a way to fit a sound in, they will replace it and not tell the artist.
 
It's always a combination of things, you can't really generalize it like that. But yeah, having a good sound engineer is super vital to the sound.
 
It kind of depends on how you are defining "mixing." One thing that separates the vetted producers from the up and comers is the idea of "performance." There's very little live instrumentation in EDM or Hip Hop (usually), but that doesn't mean there isn't still a performance. Whether it's the playing of the MIDI, or the variance in touch and velocity from the trigger pads there's still an essence of performance. And even if everything is 100% sequenced, which I don't really recommend, there's still the programming of level changes, EQ changes, arrangement changes - and a lot of this can be accomplished with mix effects.

Mixing sort of fuses with production a bit more with electronic based genres, so the mix is super important. But, no, it's not all in the mixing.
 
I just joined the FP community today, and the first discussion I look at has Matthew Weiss as the last post. This is great! Big fan of your mixing tutorials.

But to the OP: It definitely isn't 'ALL' in the mix. Performance and sound/instrument selection are big factors that will compliment the mix. There are many songs out there that have mixes done by the best engineers, and were recorded in million dollar studios, BUT still have people covering their ears when played lol.
 
I should have asked "is it MOSTLY in the mixing"? LOL. Name some big records with bad production? I think Bush's first 2 albums were thought to have a sloppy production. They had the compositions and the songs, but the production was questionable. They still sold millions. I think this had to do with their genre (grunge) which is technically asking for that gritty sound, not as polished as Nirvana's "Nevermind". Even the latter band's "In Utero" album was sloppy but the songs were there (and the hype) so yes it sold millions.
 
It's very debatable what you would consider a 'good mix'.
One of my favorite records is Madvillainy, which technically is a terribly mixed album all around. But I love that record every time I play it. It has more character in one kick that a lot of edm across an entire mix.
Listen to pretty much any rock album. Is that how a drum kit sounds in real life, really?
Listen to any of the jazz classics, tape hiss and distortion is integral to the sound.
Also, sounds that sound good on their own may sound like shit in the mix so if you're just pasting some patches together, you're not really making music...that makes you a really slow dj ;)

Don't bother too much with rules about how to do things, especially when starting out. Invest in good speakers as soon as you're able and work in a neutral sounding room at a proper volume (loud so you can feel the dynamics, but not so loud it wears you out). When you're done, listen to your mix on as many different system as you can and make a mental note of what you could do to make it sound better. Train your ears and learn to rely on them.
 
One of my favorite records is Madvillainy, which technically is a terribly mixed album all around. But I love that record every time I play it.
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MF doom! Yes, great example. I love that record too. Madlib's production was so dope! Mixing could've definitely been more polished BUT I feel that was not the objective of the record. Classic.


 
prodeucer said:
I should have asked "is it MOSTLY in the mixing"? LOL. Name some big records with bad production? I think Bush's first 2 albums were thought to have a sloppy production. They had the compositions and the songs, but the production was questionable. They still sold millions. I think this had to do with their genre (grunge) which is technically asking for that gritty sound, not as polished as Nirvana's "Nevermind". Even the latter band's "In Utero" album was sloppy but the songs were there (and the hype) so yes it sold millions.
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Composition is part of production.

localspace said:
It's very debatable what you would consider a 'good mix'.
One of my favorite records is Madvillainy, which technically is a terribly mixed album all around. But I love that record every time I play it. It has more character in one kick that a lot of edm across an entire mix.
Listen to pretty much any rock album. Is that how a drum kit sounds in real life, really?
Listen to any of the jazz classics, tape hiss and distortion is integral to the sound.
Also, sounds that sound good on their own may sound like shit in the mix so if you're just pasting some patches together, you're not really making music...that makes you a really slow dj ;)

Don't bother too much with rules about how to do things, especially when starting out. Invest in good speakers as soon as you're able and work in a neutral sounding room at a proper volume (loud so you can feel the dynamics, but not so loud it wears you out). When you're done, listen to your mix on as many different system as you can and make a mental note of what you could do to make it sound better. Train your ears and learn to rely on them.
Click to expand...

I'm sure some trip hop like maxinquaye and dummy are considered bad mixes too, but I like the way the vinyl sounds played together.

folk music also keeps the source sounds natural.

Kendrick lamars overly dedicated sounds good, but not mixed THAT well (listen to I do this remix)

Lastly, Tyler the creator told his mixing engineer that what he had originally done on wolf sounded too good, and he needed to make it sound Shittier. It's kind of his brand.
 
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bad production becomes "hip" only if it's on a big label. funny how the business works. if you're just submitting demos to labels for consideration bad production is a bad idea. if you're already signed, and make a bad production album, it gets called street cred. LOL.

I notice some early hip hop songs the vocals sound upfront like what a spoken word track would be. Is this simply "dry" and no reverb?
 
I guess Idk what early hip hop you Mean. To me, Pac and nas have more Verb than modern hip hop, or at least hip hop between 2000 and 2010. Same with Eric B And Rakims paid in full in 87. But if you hear a song with vocals that sound up front then yes, it's a relatively dry track (Kanye west's "all falls down"). Though that doesn't mean no reverb, just incredibly low amounts of it, or maybe the vocals were recorded in a space that gave a deliberate reverb tail. I put reverb on everything, it's just some things have really low amounts. I hate a dry snare sound.
 
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great composition + bad mix = Great music
bad composition + great mix = Bad music

Sound design is also another aspect you can throw into the composition section

Composition dictates the mix, not vice versa

Think about if your song only had one instrument, say the saxophone.
You can make that saxophone sound amazing (great mix), but if the composition is straight up dissonant (bad composition), the song will not be pleasing
 
regarding instrument by itself that sounds good; wouldn't the mind tell you that if the tone of the instrument solo sounds bad that it would suck? But during the whole mix it's not entirely true, so how do you make your instruments sound like shit while tracking? Do you do this when tracking or is this the EQs job when editing/mixing?

Also, some of these instruments may sound as if solo by itself on the recording but it's really a double tracked of the same instrument (I'm assuming). Therefore, it wouldn't really sound bad, am I right? Let's say my intro is a bad sounding piano solo, to make this not sound as bad in the mix, double tracking is key, correct?

Also, how are these EDM artists doing all these recordings with guest singers on their tracks, is this mostly done by long distance collaboration and not in the same studio? Generally EDM artists have their own studios so I'm assuming they simply send a track to whoever wants to sing on it and record their vocal tracks over it, is this about right?

localspace said:
It's very debatable what you would consider a 'good mix'.
One of my favorite records is Madvillainy, which technically is a terribly mixed album all around. But I love that record every time I play it. It has more character in one kick that a lot of edm across an entire mix.
Listen to pretty much any rock album. Is that how a drum kit sounds in real life, really?
Listen to any of the jazz classics, tape hiss and distortion is integral to the sound.
Also, sounds that sound good on their own may sound like shit in the mix so if you're just pasting some patches together, you're not really making music...that makes you a really slow dj ;)

Don't bother too much with rules about how to do things, especially when starting out. Invest in good speakers as soon as you're able and work in a neutral sounding room at a proper volume (loud so you can feel the dynamics, but not so loud it wears you out). When you're done, listen to your mix on as many different system as you can and make a mental note of what you could do to make it sound better. Train your ears and learn to rely on them.
Click to expand...
 
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