Achieving Unique Resonance States Within a Mix

daviddavid123

New member
Hello everyone. I was recently reading through old forums about achieving a better mix and one user suggested:

"For mixes to have such a long term quality about them, you need to have various sound sources in unique resonance states inside of the mix rather than relying only on the overall mix resonance."

I was hoping someone could clarify exactly what this means, and also recommend some ways to achieve this. For anyone lost, here's the full thread: www.futureproducers.com/forums/prod...ing-and-mastering/how-get-clearer-mix-525135/
 
To me, that's a fancy way of stating that each element/instrument/etc of your mix should occupy it's own frequency space in the mix to create diversity and interest instead of treating the entire track with a blanket eq as though it's only one entity.
For example, your hihats are going to occupy a different frequency space in the mix than say, your snares. They may share some of the frequency space, but there might be a bump or a cut to certain parts so that they play/sound nice with each other.
You might want to enhance a small part of the frequencies of certain parts, so you boost slightly with an eq.

I'm sure there's people here that know a lot more than I do about this and I'm curious to know what they say, but in the meantime, I found this quick explanation that should help a bit if you are a person that learns with visual and written cues.
Resonant Frequencies

If I'm missing how this idea should be complex than that, I'll be back to check on the thread and maybe I can learn something too.
 
I was the engineer who mentioned this in the thread, it is an advanced however interesting topic.

The reason why it is advanced is because it works against the concept that music is a dynamic multidimensional geometric structure that is integrating with the dynamic multidimensional geometric structure within which it exists. (multi-density existence) It is static when perceived from the time perspective and dynamic when perceived from the space perspective.

Lets take an example. View every sound source in the mix as a verticle bar, call each a verticle dimension. Now draw a horizontal bar across the verticle ones, call it a horizontal dimension. You now have a set of verticle dimensions and a horizontal dimension. The horizontal dimension sits on top and encapsulates the verticle dimensions, hence the horizontal dimension is at a higher level relative to the verticle dimensions.

Now lets split the horizontal dimension into two horizontal dimensions, call the first "location" and the second "x". Please notice how this forms two boxes on each verticle dimension, the location is one of them and is now a parameter of the sound source dimension. This means that when each sound source hits the resonance peak and the location is the same on each sound source because they were produced at the same location, the resonance state between each sound source is a bit less unique than if each sound source would have been set to their resonance peak in their own discrete unique locations.

The reason for this is that the sound sources will reach their resonance states at different frequencies depending on their individual location. This makes it so that the fundamental frequency of each sound source when at full resonance, sits further apart than if they all would have shared the same location. In isolation it means little, but in the context it means a lot. Because of the higher spread between the fundamental frequencies, the less frequency masking will occur, hence you get more separation.

That increased separation combined with the more nr of resonance types or states, means the brain now has much more information to process on a single play of the mix, hence why it gets a more long term listening/attachment curve, but also because the resonance and their "wave" of the whole becomes more complex and stretches into higher/lower dimensions, so the overall resonance/dissonance now also peaks at a higher/lower dimensional level. But it is not quite that simple because it depends on some things (for instance on the location and the state of being of the listener), therefore understand it more as resonance potential. But simplified this can make the "ride" when listening to the song, more uplifting/less dense if its high resonance, or more dense if its high dissonance. Hence you have the polarity: resonance = +, dissonance = -. Keep in mind that all of this is single stated when you remove the time dimension and multi stated when you add the time dimension. In our density we perceive reality from a space perspective and when we "are" in that perspective we move in time. In a different density the reality can be perceived from a time perspective and when we "are" in that perspective in that density we move in space instead of in time, it depends on wheter the density is time-space or space-time. But this means that when we are in our density we are in sync with the multiple states of resonance that occur over time when we listen to the song. If the song reaches an extremely high resonance at an extremely high dimension it becomes to the listener an experience similar to temporarily sensing the being of that density from the perspective of the current density. And if that density is much less dense, it temporarily feels like becoming "lighter" for a short moment. That feeling of anti-gravity can feel very nice, loving and warm (because that is what it is reflecting relatively speaking) and become very addictive to the listener. Hence a song can kind of have high or low dimensional pathway count/type potential. Hit songs that work great over a very long time for many are very effective relative to the listener's current being and offer great value because of their diverse/enriching states of being it moves the listener through at each play.
 
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??? I'm still so confused. I really wanna understand this concept. What you were saying about it giving the brain more to process and giving the mix a more long term addicting effect is SO fascinating to me. I've been producing for several years but only recently began to dig into the technical/engineering side of music, so when you say things like "resonance states" I have no clue what that is. I was able to get a piece of what you are trying to say, but I desperately want to understand this concept fully. Are there some outside sources I could refer to? Do all professional engineers know this concept? Is there a way to explain it that's a little more fundamental? I greatly appreciate you taking the time to impart this knowledge and hope you are willing to offer a little more help.
 
 I'm still so confused. I really wanna understand this concept. What you were saying about it giving the brain more to process and giving the mix a more long term addicting effect is SO fascinating to me. I've been producing for several years but only recently began to dig into the technical/engineering side of music, so when you say things like "resonance states" I have no clue what that is. I was able to get a piece of what you are trying to say, but I desperately want to understand this concept fully. Are there some outside sources I could refer to? Do all professional engineers know this concept? Is there a way to explain it that's a little more fundamental? I greatly appreciate you taking the time to impart this knowledge and hope you are willing to offer a little more help.

Understand you, it is deep stuff, with mathematics you can undestand the technical side of it a bit more clearly, but don't become mad like Mad Phonetics above just because you don't understand everything instantly, it takes some thinking, some practising, an open mind set and some perspectives before it sinks in and you understand how it works. In another thread I wrote about how you can expand your creative and technical abilities/understanding as an engineer by becoming more skilled at other types of mixing/balancing, you can harmonize these to boost your learning curve.

Please note that you do want to enrich the music to such a degree that it takes a long time to fully integrate the song, but the art is to balance that so that within a single play the brain will not constantly pay attention to a lot of things and not be able to be at peace and not be able to rest during the listening of the song. That balancing process is about focusing the separation to the key elements of the chorus without destroying the resonances you have created. That quality is to some degree a bi-product of harmonizing the mix with a rich set of resonances, because it makes the sound sources slightly more stable in the stereo field which gives the mix a relaxing quality. Mixes that have a lot of frequency masking on each speaker creates a blurry stereo image because the sound sources then fluctuate sideways more, depending on the content.

To push you in the right direction, start by purchasing a better audio interface. I think the Apogee Symphony is a good start, it gives you access to +26 dBu resonance potential. Record and mix the choruses with that (also do the mastering with it), and use your current audio interface to balance the verses. I know this is a big step but you need to do what it takes. Now build two entirely different platforms, one for the verses using your current audio interface, one for the choruses using your Symphony interface.

Most about the verse setup should be unique relative to the chorus setup, including the DAW and the creative workflow. Please notice that in the future you might separate these into separate studios at separate locations, maybe tailored towards various genres. In the future you can scale out your music fabric using the Apogee SoundGrid (released soon) and take your mastering to the next level with the Antelope Audio Eclipse 384 + 10MX atomic rubidium clock. That solution gives you worse latency, but it does not matter because it is the combination of the other qualities about that solution that you want access to... For the verse platform you can also use an Apollo + UAD solution, just ensure the intros are created with the chorus setup to attach the listener much enough and quickly enough.

But this creative work with the music creation process will make you skilled because you are constantly learning about various signal chains and how they all combine to create a certain musical result. You are not limiting yourself within the boundaries of a certain small set of platform parameters, you are constantly working on the much deeper level, you learn to think like a producer.

Commercially, what is great about this too is that you can focus the engineers' current abilities to the appropriate setup, meaning that you can work as a team to deliver products more quickly even at more varying skill sets.

On a side note. When you dig deeper and deeper into the art of music, it becomes more and more mind bending. This can be stessful if you do not also try to open up the brain a little by studying highly intelligent concepts. I recommend Chris Langan's CTMU material (http://www.megafoundation.org/CTMU/Articles/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf), the RA material and the Metaphysics book written by Darryl Anka (very good but might be a bit difficult to get). I also recommend studying Nassim Haramein's work which opens you up to ideas about the physical nature expressed using equations. For cutting edge electrical work I recommend that you study Gerard Morin's work, he is currently in the process of discovering free energy. For understanding the human biology and its relations to these concepts I recommend Dan Winter's work. The combination of these will stretch and bend your mind in a way that makes it easier to process and grasp multidimensional concepts, having mathematical attachment. I also recommend the book Total Recording written by David Moulton, it is more technical but provides a basic framework that will give you some nice guidance and perspective on the very basics of engineering...

Personally I am quite influenced by Chris Lord-Alge's approach to mixing because I find there is a transparency about him and his approach to engineering that I like. Before I went into deep territory I learned the traditional art of mixing (learned a lot from him), I think it is good to ground yourself in the traditional art of mixing and do so well, before going deeper. But one should not get stuck in that phase, quickly practice and grasp it, then move on to the deeper creative side of engineering.
 
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Darkred, you're not using terms correctly. For example, your use of the term resonance is clearly off. Remember, this is audio, and these terms have defined and well understood meanings, so you need to use them in ways that people (the world), understands them. Maybe you've conceptualised these ideas into something that makes sense to you, but when you're trying to teach something to others you need to use terms in the way they are defined and understood. Anything less leads to confusion.

For instance, when you use terms like resonance peak and resonance potential, is what you are you really referring to not resonance per se, but rather how the song and each sound emotionally resonates with the listener? If this is so then say it. Don't wrap it up in sophistry. It some ways this seems to be so as you write stuff such as "...the overall resonance/dissonance now also peaks at a..." and "Hence you have the polarity: resonance = +, dissonance = -...", indicating that you think these terms are synonymous and, somehow, at the same time, atonymous. They are not. Dissonance, in music, is used in relation to harmony. Resonance is used in relation to oscillation.
 
Ok. I'm slightly less confused and I appreciate the large amount of info from everybody. DarkRed what exactly do you mean "resonance"? like what exactly is resonance and what is the "resonance state". I think once I understand that everything else will fall into place. Also you were talking about interfaces. My main focus right is applying this concept to beats. I'm looking to start mixing my instruments and drums in this fashion so I can make my beats next level. Thanks again I'm loving this info!
 
Ok. I'm slightly less confused and I appreciate the large amount of info from everybody. DarkRed what exactly do you mean "resonance"? like what exactly is resonance and what is the "resonance state". I think once I understand that everything else will fall into place. Also you were talking about interfaces. My main focus right is applying this concept to beats. I'm looking to start mixing my instruments and drums in this fashion so I can make my beats next level. Thanks again I'm loving this info!
Great that it becomes more clear, the other ones, especially yada appear more confused.A particular resonance state is a particular frequency and its harmonics on the electromagnetic field spectrum at a particular point in time. This spectrum expresses the frequencies between the natural electromagnetic frequency of the object and the peak resonance frequency of the object, which is slightly above the natural one and is in a perfect symmetry/relationship to the natural electromagnetic frequency and the context, the difference being that it has been powered by a perfect amount to sync perfectly with itself and its context. Because of the stateful nature in the presence of the time dimension, each state represents a particular resonance frequency at a particular point in time that is at a specific distance to the peak resonance state - the object's resonance potential. (potential = max) The potential increases with higher natural frequency. Since these resonances vary depending on the object and the combination of objects - each in their own particular resonance states - you hence get various types of resonances depending on the objects you are mixing and the set of parameters dynamically impacting them, such as for instance the location of the sound source.Please notice that the resonance potential varies depending on the current density within which it exists, with lighter densities comes greater resonance potential. Extracting free energy is the process of trying to channel into and tap energy from much lighter densities, Gerard Morin tries to do so by linking a set of resonances through a set of spark gaps and it appears to amplify the incoming charge.UFOs coming here are electromagnetic resonance chambers. They tune the electromagnetic frequency of the craft precisely to the resonance state that expresses the mass differential between the sun and the planet the craft currently exists on, on earth that is 333 kHz. This causes a cancellation of the craft's own mass down to 0g. At that particular state, the craft's electromagnetic energy field has been powered by a specific amount that is relative to the directions of the two forces of the electromagnetic donut when it is at the resonance peak of 333 kHz, hence the amount of power at this state indirectly becomes the coordinate of the target location because the electromagnetic energy field at this state identifies and syncs with the electromagnetic energy field where that is present naturally.So to sync up with earth from a planet of a distant star you would make the craft cancel gravity with the power level that corrseponds to the electromagnetic field of earth, having its resonance peak at 7.8296 Hz. This according to the channeled source Bashar channeled by Darryl Anka. Whether it is true or not remains to be verified by data.My take on the concept is that they alter the electromagnetic field surrounding the object and make it resonate with the peak resonance of a target electromagnetic energy field of a distant planet and in doing so the object is re-locating there due to an isolation field effect that we know little about but possibly exists, because a parameter of that particular target energy field's energy equation is the location, hence that energy can only exist relating to that particular location, so when you try to duplicate it elsewhere it will instead attract to its origin. Hence it makes sense, especially at the state of 0 mass.
 
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Honestly, what the hell is a recording that lasts? DarkRed is talking about a very advanced topic that you should read, whether you understand it or not, because it can trigger a new perspective on music for you. But a long-lasting mix is the exact same thing as "a good song." What the hell is a long-lasting mix? Something that's still popular after a set amount of years? What does popular even mean? Don't a lot of people dislike Popular music? "The Real Slim Shady" is still popular (sort of), but not because it's an exceptional mix, or even a good song to a lot of people. It came around in a perfect firestorm of censorship and hypocrisy, and it had a message, packaged with a very technical flow. And that's great, and a lot of people still listen to it, but a lot of fucking people don't care about any of that. Not everyone wants a song to have no inherent value other than its cultural context or how many times it rhymes in one bar. And I'm ripping hard on Eminem right now, but I was a die-hard fan at one point. I'm saying this to illustrate where that songs value is. In fact, that whole album is difficult to listen to without any cultural context.

And we have a lot of hip-hop albums like that. I don't care about Wu-Tang. I heard a lot of their early stuff and some of the raps were just god awful to me, but people praise them for what they did and what they said. They were provocative. So was Ice Cube, but Jesus, have you heard "It Was A Good Day?". That song is grater to my ears. And if you go way back to Pimp Daddy Cane or Rakim, you will hear flows that are appreciated ONLY for the times they came out in. Rakim was years ahead of anybody at that time, but is he a relevant person now? The mother fucker is still alive! Are there people playing Paid In Full? Absolutely. Is it because of the mix? Not even a little. Paid In Full is a horribly mixed album.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, MoTown is some of the most instantly accessible music of all time. You put on Drake, you'll get a portion of a room dancing. If you put on Madeon, you might get a different portion of the room dancing. You want to get most of the room dancing? Put on some MoTown Music. That shit does not need any introduction or context. But were they quality recordings? They were bloated, unbalanced basement recordings, originally recorded with a dirt floor. Instruments duck left and right out of the way when they shouldn't, the bass is hardly there (despite having one of the BEST Bassists on it), and everything is hard to make out. In this basement, with these inexperienced engineers, The Funk Brothers made more #1 hits than any band in history, period. And the songs were not epic Shakespearean poems. They were kinda cheesy. What makes them great is the performances.

I don't subscribe to the "Good mixes make us enjoy songs longer" philosophy. My favorite song of all time has both the vocals and guitar recorded on a god damn phone, and I promise that the mixing after the fact is not something to brag about. Daft Punk's Random Access Memories is arguably the most well recorded album in a long time. They had legendary players of the 70's teamed up with even more legendary engineers. They recorded everything to both Tape and Digital just to mix and match them how they pleased. They took four years to make the album and spent over a million dollars making it, which is fucking wild considering how cheap it is to record nowadays. On the technical side of the production, the album is incredible. All of that effort definitely paid off. It's very hard to pick out anything to dislike about the album. The bass is balanced and glues everything together. The synths are big and warm. The vocals sound fantastic, and nothing is over compressed. And yet, everyone I know that was excited about this album never puts it on anymore. It is an amazing piece of engineering, but it is a Daft Punk album. It gets repetitive to certain people, me included.

So if you've read this far and let me be so self-indulgent that I might as well be pleasuring myself while writing this, you should know that I don't mean to shit on mixing engineers. They are a vital part of the process. But come on. Resonance states and long-term quality recordings? This is art. Some people love Elvis, some people love Zappa. Some people love Drake, and some people love these fucking guys (59,000 views). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L4DOLWSiGQ
 
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Dark Red thanks for the info and Crimsonhawk I feel you 100%. It is 100% subjective. You can have a song or mix you think is the greatest in the world and someone out there will think it's trash. But what Dark Red said that peaked my interest was about how more complex mixes (as far as resonance states or whatever) cause the brain to have to hear the song a certain amount to fully process what it is going on. Even if it's on a level that you can't even process yet. Like how non producers won't know, "oh this snare sounds good because of reverb" they'll just think "oh this snare sounds good". Does that make sense? But Dark Red you lost me when you brought in the UFOs, I'm still shaky on how to even begin creating mixes like that. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting anything anyone has said. I appreciate all the feedback
 
Dark Red thanks for the info and Crimsonhawk I feel you 100%. It is 100% subjective. You can have a song or mix you think is the greatest in the world and someone out there will think it's trash. But what Dark Red said that peaked my interest was about how more complex mixes (as far as resonance states or whatever) cause the brain to have to hear the song a certain amount to fully process what it is going on. Even if it's on a level that you can't even process yet. Like how non producers won't know, "oh this snare sounds good because of reverb" they'll just think "oh this snare sounds good". Does that make sense? But Dark Red you lost me when you brought in the UFOs, I'm still shaky on how to even begin creating mixes like that. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting anything anyone has said. I appreciate all the feedback

Which is why I don't want to seem like I'm dismissing anything. If you can make good mixes, I don't care if you used analogue gear or if you put snails on your penis while you eqed some guitars. But I don't think anyone really knows why something gets popular for a specific period of time.
 
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Dark Red thanks for the info and Crimsonhawk I feel you 100%. It is 100% subjective. You can have a song or mix you think is the greatest in the world and someone out there will think it's trash. But what Dark Red said that peaked my interest was about how more complex mixes (as far as resonance states or whatever) cause the brain to have to hear the song a certain amount to fully process what it is going on. Even if it's on a level that you can't even process yet. Like how non producers won't know, "oh this snare sounds good because of reverb" they'll just think "oh this snare sounds good". Does that make sense? But Dark Red you lost me when you brought in the UFOs, I'm still shaky on how to even begin creating mixes like that. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting anything anyone has said. I appreciate all the feedback

About the mechanics of UFOs, my passion could not be stopped, lol, forget it. :)

But in this post you are in my view looking into the eyes of what makes a good mix last. Of course a great song is first and foremost a key goal for a long lasting end product, but technically that is just a readiness decision into production. Even when the song and the production is great, things can get really messed up during recording, mixing and mastering. You can for instance capture resonances in the production OK, but then the mixing and mastering engineers run the signals through a series of processes that when combined waste all of the resonances that were supposed to be present in the final product. And trust me, with poor monitoring, gear and skills shit like this happens all the time. And still even when the engineers manage to get it somewhat OK, now the final product is out there on the market among millions of songs with the same quality of song, production and recording, but with a totally different quality of mixing and mastering, will it compete successfully in that context lets say it is in a pop genre too, maybe if it is backed up by some very serious amounts of marketing and only the richest have access to that level of market influence. So I really dont think that overall there are such shortcuts. Listeners are very used to really great masters, when they notice they are not attached, they switch song, you have a number of seconds to convince, but when the subconscious registers interesting stuff those seconds will turn into minutes, even when the listener does not listen to the end, he or she will likely return to the song, because now the master is edged into the sub conscious. Therefore, as an engineer one has to understand what are the ingredients of a mix and master that make a great song and production last long with a lot of plays, that is in my view more important than the initial impression of the master.

When mixing and mastering engineers rely on the initial phases of the music creation process for success, they are not going to be successful in the long run. Therefore I do find it makes sense to learn mixing and mastering for long term value.
 
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DarkRed is talking about a very advanced topic that you should read, whether you understand it or not, because it can trigger a new perspective on music for you.

Although i'm pretty sure he's just trolling us all because he uses terms completely inaccurately, anyone that doesn't understand the terms he is using should not read it because it will just confuse them. Anyone who does understand the terms can see that it's just psychobabble. Any new perspective will be based, largely, on nonsense.

All this 'technical sounding' stuff is just an attempt to add credence to waffle by relying on the ignorance of the reader. Look at his latest 'lesson' for clarity on this:

"A particular resonance state is a particular frequency and its harmonics on the electromagnetic field spectrum at a particular point in time."

So his concept of resonance state (audio), is somehow intertwined and related to the radiation coming from the sun. Further, a resonance state is not just a particular frequency, but a particular frequency and its harmonics... as if a particular frequency has an harmonic, let alone harmonic. There is also no such thing as the electromagnetic field spectrum. It's nonsensical. The electromagnetic spectrum is a spectrum. An electromagnetic field is a field. Combining these two does not mean you've made something new, it means you've made no sense. He then waffles some more about how it is that the electromagnetic spectrum is related to audio.

Like i said, i'm sure he's trolling and i'm just feeding it... so meh, i'm a sucker for that.
 
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