Sample Usage and Hate....???

C

Chew_Bear

New member
Why does using certain samples or sample packs get looked down upon so much by other producers...??? I.E. Vengeance Packs.

This is especially true for the edm/electronica producers but I don't know about the hip hop/pop mainstream producers.

I mean...If you like the sample and it fits your song and your a little 'lazy' to try and sound design one yourself...than shouldn't it be 'ok'...???

In the end....its all about the music anyways right...??? I mean....it shouldn't matter where you got the sample from or if its a sample that has been used extensively to death right....???

So to that end.....

1. What 'percentage' of my song can be 'samples' and what percentage should be my own stuff/sound design....??? 50%, 75%, 90%....???

Say I have 10 tracks in my song. Can I have 5 tracks be samples and the other 5 as my own stuff....??? Or should I always try and use the least amount of samples as possible and that way my song would be as 'original' as it can be.

I just don't get it.

2. Where do you draw the line as to how many 'premade samples' a song can have before it can be called "looked down upon" and therefore deemed 'blasphemy'....???

I also don't get it because....

99% of the people that will be listening to your music/tracks....Don't even know what music production is....let alone what a music producer is, does and what they choose to use anyways.

Its only the other 1% of people.....of which is other music producers....who will actually know your so called 'samples' and/or 'secret' anyways.

So to that extent...if your just making music for the 99% of people who don't even know what a vengeance pack is and what "VEC snare 23" or "VEE Kick 10" is....than shouldn't it be "ok"....???

Apologies in advance if this starts a heated thread between producers and their 'ideologies' and/or theories, morals and values.
 
There are no rules.
I personally don't want to spend cash on samples that aren't very versatile and get satisfaction out of making my own sounds and hearing them come closer to professional level samples over time.

Other people like the sound of samples and want to concentrate on other aspects of their music so they buy samples.

I think if you use a lot of samples maybe the person who made the samples should get some credit when you're famous. Vengeance deserve more credit from the public than they get.
 
Personally I use samples of live instrumentation because I don't have a budget for musicians and playing most instruments on the keyboard with a VST or workstation etc. will sound fake and generally pretty bad. I have no problem with other people using samples for the most part.

I pretty much shy away from samples right now outside of one shots but it's ONLY for legal reasons. The problem with sample packs is you have to take the company at their word that they created the sample.

My issue is when people use a synth loop out of vengeance or whatever. There's no reason in hell you can't do that yourself so it just strikes me as lazy at that point, especially since most of these loops are pretty generic.

Even when I use samples it's gonna be something that you don't hear on the radio everyday. I don't have the money or power to compete with the industry so I'm going for originality with the projects I'm working on right now. (Working with a rapper and an R&B singer to try and make a splash locally.)
 
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I sample a lot... Most of my beats start from an old soul or jazz record.
Sample packs tend to be either instrument licks or drums IME.
My kits are built from a mix of found vinyl breaks and NI sounds. I like to find a few hits I like and layer them on top of each other.
Most of my instrumentation (excluding the sample I've flipped) comes either from my bass guitar, acoustic or a synth.
 
Some producers are picky...if the sounds in the sample packs sound good to you then use them! Doesn't matter what others think
 
Really doesn't matter in edm, everything's possible and it's a hell of a field to partake in.
Which is the point. Those who care will either be producers themselves or listeners.
 
Some of the Vengeance hate stems from the fact that some of their early "products" were the same stuff that people try to pass as "producer kits" on eBay - illegally sampled sounds from other people's records. Building a thriving business on other people's work might feel a bit cheap to some people.

And of course you can nowadays build a "competent" sounding EDM/house/popularelectronicgenre song with zero artistic contribution from these construction kits. There's obviously no percentage or rule to how much you should or should not use, but you probably know when you're being lazy. It's an easy cure to a beginning producer's insecurities to just use readymade pieces that are already "approved" to be part of a construction kit. Of course all samples can be used in interesting ways, but if you take a 128bpm house drum loop to make a standard 128bpm house song, it's probably not going to be very original.
 
So...for example....Even in something like 'SOUND DESIGN' where your supposed to be 'original' .....

Say....I take 3 Vengeance Kicks and layer them with one another to create a uniquely new sound.....

A. Is this considered 'original' and 'OK' now.....????

Because theoretically.....I did put in the work and sound design to make a new sound/kick.

...OR....

B. Is this still considered 'lazy' and/or blasphemy...???

Because I used kicks from a sample pack (extra points taken off because their vengeance) instead of using a synth/other hardware or 'acceptable' method/technique.
 
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On another side note and also to highlight what Ego Killer posted.....And that's.....

Acoustic / Natural Instruments and Live Instrumentation...???

For example....Like....I never knew that you could just 'pay' someone to play a guitar or piano part for your song....if its apparent you don't have any guitar / piano playing skills. (im a lil arrogant/naive)

My original train of thought and what I always deemed was 'moral' and/or 'original'.....Was that in order to be called a proper 'producer'....

That it would even require you to know how to play an instrument too....because than if you decide to use that part in your song....it would be deemed original and is part of your particular skill/strength/repertoire.

So....I really don't get how a producer can even call them self a producer.....If all they do is 'pay' other people to play the parts that they them self should be playing....correct...???

Therefore....Whats the whole "needing/learning music theory" concept/thing than.....If its as easy as "PAYING" a pianist to play a lead or guitarist to play a bass chord progression for my song....???

Technically...its not 'original' and therefore blasphemy because you yourself did not play the instrument in your very own song...correct....???

Is this no different and/or worse than using sample packs....???

Of course....there is a rainbow to every argument....and the one here is:

Obviously...we are just humans and therefore we are not perfect. As a result, it would than make sense that we shouldn't require all producers to be these multi-talented Instrumentalist (although there are some people like that out there).

In the end...even a producer who probably can play their own piano part...will eventually have to 'PAY' a guitarist to play the guitar part for their song. I guess that's why there is the concept of a "COLLAB" right. LOL.
 
Chew_Bear said:
So...for example....Even in something like 'SOUND DESIGN' where your supposed to be 'original' .....

Say....I take 3 Vengeance Kicks and layer them with one another to create a uniquely new sound.....

A. Is this considered 'original' and 'OK' now.....????

Because theoretically.....I did put in the work and sound design to make a new sound/kick.

...OR....

B. Is this still considered 'lazy' and/or blasphemy...???

Because I used kicks from a sample pack (extra points taken off because their vengeance) instead of using a synth/other hardware or 'acceptable' method/technique.
Click to expand...

The bottom line: no one cares. If you use very obvious presets and you know you're being lazy, maybe someone will call you out. And that's about it. Lots and lots of modern EDM gets done with just presets and the most tired and overused sounds, and no one cares. Maybe it gets talked about forums like this, maybe no one even notices. Huge names like Daft Punk have "gotten away" with lifting huge parts of the songs they're sampling - and the only people who care are fellow music producers, gloating over the fact that they made something so effective in such a simple way. In short, you're overthinking this. Do what you want to get the sound you want - if you want to sound like everyone else, then presets are the easy way to get there.

Acoustic / Natural Instruments and Live Instrumentation...???

For example....Like....I never knew that you could just 'pay' someone to play a guitar or piano part for your song....if its apparent you don't have any guitar / piano playing skills. (im a lil arrogant/naive)

My original train of thought and what I always deemed was 'moral' and/or 'original'.....Was that in order to be called a proper 'producer'....

That it would even require you to know how to play an instrument too....because than if you decide to use that part in your song....it would be deemed original and is part of your particular skill/strength/repertoire.

So....I really don't get how a producer can even call them self a producer.....If all they do is 'pay' other people to play the parts that they them self should be playing....correct...???
Click to expand...

Eh, I don't think anyone ever said that a producer should play every single instrument that's featured on a track - on the contrary, the traditional sitting-in-a-recording-studio-producers (that is, before someone came up with the idea that everyone with a computer and headphones is a "producer") often don't play anything, they're more like creative directors that have a vision and tell the players to play the way they want. This idea of yours that you're only "proper" if you do it all yourself is some kind of a modern twisted contortion of the term. I guess you could loosely define a producer as someone who gets his/hers vision of a project realized by any means necessary.
 
Well, I personally would use what ever makes your track sound better, what do I care when this great punchy kick is not a result of layering 5 kick sounds and hardcore producers start hating it, it´s even kind of rude.
But I feel bad for myself using a blank sample, so I mostly layer samples in order to create something better :)

But the main thing is, don´t give a damn what others say unless it does improve your own music ;D
 
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