The Real Difference between a Producer, Composer, and Beatmaker!!!!!!!!!

elitish bulldung. but it makes the naive sheep happy so i'll let it stay long enough for them to lap it up.

it's comical. you have no idea what a producer is until YOU become one. you DEFINE what it is YOURSELF. i can make a complex theme based track and not write a lick of it down because that's HOW I PRODUCE/COMPOSE/WRITE. say that it's not composition unless it's written is like sayin jay-z isnt a songwriter because he aint write it down. the midi is my paper just as well as the studer is jay-z's paper. an A&R does the same thing that a producer does by your description. the work is cross-bred and that's why simpletons will forever search for the meaning to define themselves or give themselves a misrepresented goal of realization. it's POINTLESS. lil jon made a beat and petey pablo liked it and made a song to it, the song sells off lil jon's BRAND NAME and thus even though petey essentially "produced that from a beat to a song" it is "produced by lil jon" because it's a SHREWD business move. production, marketing, law, composition, writing, singing are all variable terms of description that you appoint to yourself upon the luxury of affirming your OWN definition. dont try to explain it to anyone because you are more clueless now than before you read the articles. let everyone learn for themselves before indoctrinating them with foolishness. no hard feelings lanstarr.


-traxx-
 
i don't give a fuuuuu... what a magazine says,nobody dictates whas what to me...there might be certain criteria's to be met but i can't play not one instrument and i make beats every otherday and produce everyday....what if it said anybody reading this magazine (insert name of mag.) obviously don't kno what they're doing,would you agree?
 
j-traxx said:
say that it's not composition unless it's written is like sayin jay-z isnt a songwriter because he aint write it down. the midi is my paper just as well as the studer is jay-z's paper.

That was a good way of puttin it. Especially "the midi is my paper"
 
I agree w/ J-Traxx and you can call yourself whatever the f*ck you like but when ever you finally reach that level you'll now what you are its like w/ kids they swear up in down i'm grown or i'm a man you can say that sh*t all day but when you make the real transition then its no longer a spoken thing its with in you ....welcome young jedi
 
I neither agree nor disagree with all of this, however my question is:
Why the fu*k would you lot care about this nonsense anyway?
What does it matter? We all make music, thats what matters. I write music. So I'm a composer. Occasionally, I use samples. Oh, so I'm a beatmaker then? Or am I a composing beatmaker? Or maybe a beatmaking composer?
Oh but hold on, I also record and produce an acoustic act in my studio, so as a matter of fact I'm a beatmaking production composer. And, indeed, I also run my own little label so my full title would be a Beatmaking Production Composer CEO.
What a load of toss. You lot should get back to making music, I sense..
 
first of all, I agree completely with the ideas & concepts illustrated in the original definition posted, I don't agree with all the wording, but I think he hit the idea right on the head

& I know Quincy Jones plays the trumpet, that was the first thing he did, play in bands, but he is a musician, composer, producer, he obviously has knowledge of musical theory just going by the scores he's done
& Clive Davis is not a producer, he's an executive producer, but not a producer (I know that's not correct wording if you want to get technical, but you know what I'm saying) Clive Davis doesn't really put the songs together, atleast not with his hip-hop & R&B projects, he puts albums togehter, he just guides the process
 
j-traxx said:
lil jon made a beat and petey pablo liked it and made a song to it, the song sells off lil jon's BRAND NAME and thus even though petey essentially "produced that from a beat to a song" it is "produced by lil jon" because it's a SHREWD business move.
-traxx-

The credits should say "All instruments by L'il Jon" Produced by "Petey Pablo or whoever". People don't credit the Funk Brothers as producers for Motown's hits, yet they created all the music for over a decade. The same should be true for Trackmasters, Neptunes or whoever if all they do is send the beat cross country to the artist. They should be listed as musicians and not producer. But hip hop has changed the definition of the term somewhat. I don't know if it's loosely used elsewhere around the world but if I was to get Sly & Robbie to do a beat for me, they would be listed as musicians/songwriters and not producer and they'd have no problem with that if they didn't actually contribute to the overseeing of the entire project.
 
1) No one said you have to play many instruments to be a producer. Everyone is taking that part way out of context. That section was a list of quality that helps make a producer better. Any added musical knowledge will give a producer an advantage. Even none musical things that can apply to music (e.g. physics) can give a producer an advantage. How can you argue that gained knowledge is not advantageous? Again, you don't have to play many instruments to be a producer, these were just a list of the most common qualities that can help a music producer to become better or to tell someone looking for a producer what sort of qualities to look for.

2) Like someone said above, Clive isn't really a music producer, he is an executive producer. There is a difference. He is involved with the business aspects and decision making more and not the creation of the actual song. A music producer is involved more with the creation process involved with making a song. Remember though, the jobs people do cross many times, just like in any business. A techie may do some coffee getting for his/her boss just as a secretary may fix a paper jam in a printer. Sometimes an executive producer may do some of the jobs a music producer does may do some of the jobs a songwriter does etc and vise versa.

3) Hip Hop has distorted the meaning of what a producer is. When you bring this discussion to the table of people involved in many other genres, you don't get the same backlash. And like someone else said, back before hip hop when songwriter and musicians made the underlying music for singers, they were not called the producer of the track. They were given credits for writing or composing the song. In hip hop, the producer also makes the beat a lot of the time, so people started to confuse the titles. I was just attempting to clarify that. I figured I would get a lot of backlash from many people. But as I said in my original post, don't argue with it just because you may not fall in the category you desire to be in. This was just meant to be a reference, copy and pasted (some parts) and paraphrased from other publications for validity. This is not solely my opinion.

4) Also, as someone else said, these are just titles, who cares? I agree with that statement. In my original post I did say to continue to do what you do. But you can't argue with a definition. An apple is an apple. How can you argue that no, an apple is an orange? Maybe you don't care whether it is an apple or an orange, you just care that it is a fruit. That is fine. But that doesn't change the fact that it is an apple. If I am a CFO of a business, I may do some of the things a CEO does and the CEO may do many of my jobs. Does that make me a CEO? No. Does it matter, as long as the job gets done? No. After all, it is just a title.

I was just [attempting to] clarify things for some of the younger people who make beats and all of a sudden call themselves producers and CEO’s of fictional record labels. I did the same thing when I was younger. It’s fun to play pretend when you are a kid. But sometimes people start to think the pretend is reality and confuse the difference.

I didn’t mean to ruffle anyone’s feathers. Continue to do what you do. Keep banging out them beats and trying to improve your game. I know that’s what I am trying to do.

Peace
 
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LANSTARR.COM said:
1) No one said you have to play many instruments to be a producer. Everyone is taking that part way out of context. That section was a list of quality that helps make a producer better. Any added musical knowledge will give a producer an advantage. Even none musical things that can apply to music (e.g. physics) can give a producer an advantage. How can you argue that gained knowledge is not advantageous? Again, you don't have to play many instruments to be a producer, these were just a list of the most common qualities that can help a music producer to become better or to tell someone looking for a producer what sort of qualities to look for.

2) Like someone said above, Clive isn't really a music producer, he is an executive producer. There is a difference. He is involved with the business aspects and decision making more and not the creation of the actual song. A music producer is involved more with the creation process involved with making a song. Remember though, the jobs people do cross many times, just like in any business. A techie may do some coffee getting for his/her boss just as a secretary may fix a paper jam in a printer. Sometimes an executive producer may do some of the jobs a music producer does may do some of the jobs a songwriter does etc and vise versa.

3) Hip Hop has distorted the meaning of what a producer is. When you bring this discussion to the table of people involved in many other genres, you don't get the same backlash. And like someone else said, back before hip hop when songwriter and musicians made the underlying music for singers, they were not called the producer of the track. They were given credits for writing or composing the song. In hip hop, the producer also makes the beat a lot of the time, so people started to confuse the titles. I was just attempting to clarify that. I figured I would get a lot of backlash from many people. But as I said in my original post, don't argue with it just because you may not fall in the category you desire to be in. This was just meant to be a reference, copy and pasted (some parts) and paraphrased from other publications for validity. This is not solely my opinion.

4) Also, as someone else said, these are just titles, who cares? I agree with that statement. In my original post I did say to continue to do what you do. But you can't argue with a definition. An apple is an apple. How can you argue that no, an apple is an orange? Maybe you don't care whether it is an apple or an orange, you just care that it is a fruit. That is fine. But that doesn't change the fact that it is an apple. If I am a CFO of a business, I may do some of the things a CEO does and the CEO may do many of my jobs. Does that make me a CEO? No. Does it matter, as long as the job gets done? No. After all, it is just a title.

I was just [attempting to] clarify things for some of the younger people who make beats and all of a sudden call themselves producers and CEO’s of fictional record labels. I did the same thing when I was younger. It’s fun to play pretend when you are a kid. But sometimes people start to think the pretend is reality and confuse the difference.

I didn’t mean to ruffle anyone’s feathers. Continue to do what you do. Keep banging out them beats and trying to improve your game. I know that’s what I am trying to do.

Peace


you just confused everyone that has no idea how the real thing really is. that's misleading to try to copy and paste other's opinions and make it seem concrete when it really isnt. every term that we use in music is trend based in terms of definition and you are confused by this but you are genuinely tryin to help out others. that's bad tho. you are like that policeman in "THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW" that lead all the people out of the library to freeze in the cold. didint mean to kill them but that's what he did. you dont understand something but you find a sudden sense of epiphany and wish to share it. in the future i think you should hold off on the sharing until you become an actual participant in the field that you are trying to "drop knowledge" on.
once again lan.. you my boy.. no offence meant.
 
Originally posted by j-traxx you are like that policeman in "THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW" that lead all the people out of the library to freeze in the cold. didint mean to kill them but that's what he did.

Damn kid... going for the kill right there.

Still I feel everything I posted is valid, and obviously the industry "experts" feel it is also. I just chose to paraphrase from others to add validity to the definitions since "I am no one" and I knew I would get that "who are you to make up these definitions" statement. Of course in a forum where the majority of people "produce" hip hop they are going to disagree with the definitions because it is telling them they are not producers or composers. But I trust the views of a person 20-30 years deep in the game rather than a neophyte hip hopper especially since we can see that by industry standard the definition has become distorted by the said hip hopper. But anyway, like I say, it doesn't change anything. Continue to do what you do and bang them beats out.

PS this is not something I suddently stumbled on. Just decided to put it together after seeing a number of people on another forum talkin about it.

PPS, I am a musician first before anything. Been one before I ever made a beat. I am a beat maker after that, followed by a producer. Not a composer at all, even though I have composed music in the past. So I am not dropping knowlege on something I know nother about. But at the same time I am not going to act like an expert. I am still learning. 15 years deep in learning.
 
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LANSTARR.COM said:


Damn kid... going for the kill right there.

Still I feel everything I posted is valid, and obviously the industry "experts" feel it is also. I just chose to paraphrase from others to add validity to the definitions since "I am no one" and I knew I would get that "who are you to make up these definitions" statement. Of course in a forum where the majority of people "produce" hip hop they are going to disagree with the definitions because it is telling them they are not producers or composers. But I trust the views of a person 20-30 years deep in the game rather than a neophyte hip hopper especially since we can see that by industry standard the definition has become distorted by the said hip hopper. But anyway, like I say, it doesn't change anything. Continue to do what you do and bang them beats out.

PS this is not something I suddently stumbled on. Just decided to put it together after seeing a number of people on another forum talkin about it.

PPS, I am a musician first before anything. Been one before I ever made a beat. I am a beat maker after that, followed by a producer. Not a composer at all, even though I have composed music in the past. So I am not dropping knowlege on something I know nother about. But at the same time I am not going to act like an expert. I am still learning. 15 years deep in learning.

Well said Lan, I feel where you comin' from on that. I understand your thoughts too Traxx, but I do have to agree a bit more with what Lan said.. an apple is an apple, so define the terms as it is. The music industry, particularly the hiphop/R&B part of it has tainted producer a bit much, and I do agree that it seems that nowadays, a "beatmaker" can send a beat that an artist really really wants, and the artist will then in turn list him/her as the producer of the track, which went to my question earlier on the post which was not answered. I've been doin' beats for a few years, and whether people consider me a producer, beatmaker, fruit user, etc... makes no difference to me.. as long as my credit is given wherever it belongs, that's fine.. if I make a beat and it's used by a major artist, I'd want credit on the album, whether "produced by" or "beat provided by" or "instrumental made by".. it don't matter. One thing I strongly agree on is what Lan said... do what you do, bang out the beats.. that's what it all boils down to.. the most persistent and devoted will be recognized however you want to slice it, beatmaker, composer, producer, sampler genius, drum stroker, etc etc.. it's all about pushing forward, tryin' to achieve what you want to do, and ultimately getting your name out there to where it's more known and you have the knowledge to ensure that you are given the credit you deserve for whatever craft it is that you do, whether composing, producing, beatmaking, etc.

Keep doin' what'chu do, like Lan said.. that's what matters.. CEO, CFO, producer, beatmaker.. my main concern is that I get recognized, I learn what I can, and I continue creating what I truly love to create.. music, whether hiphop beats, movie scores, whatever. It's all about the music in the end.. well, for some of us it is.. for others, it's all about the label, the title, or the money overall. Be eazy, and good luck to all of you, however you want to be titled.. beatmaker to me is fine if that's what peepz wanna call me. I'm a still hustle mine. Bless. Peace.

Genycis
www.genycis.com
www.soundclick.com/genycis
 
From the websters dictionary

"produce" to make or to create,to present or bring into view.

"production" the proccess or act of producing,ie a play,a lyric, or piece of music.

producers come in all kinds we are all producers because the definition of produce is to make or create we are all creating or making in some form or another so there is no difference in a composer,beatmaker, or a "producer" they all create there for they all produce so fuk anyone who thinks otherwise!

IMHO the only execption to all of this is people who "produce" something thats allready produced you know who you are!
 
LANSTARR.COM said:
Hip Hop has distorted the meaning of what a producer is.

Originally posted by LANSTARR.COM Of course in a forum where the majority of people "produce" hip hop they are going to disagree with the definitions because it is telling them they are not producers or composers.

That pretty much sums it up. The thing is, there's your definition, my definition, and Websters definition of a "producer" . . .

To me, when I hear a person who's made 5 beats, can't play an instrument, and doesn't know any music theory refer to themself as a producer, I think it shows no respect for the term "producer" - as if anyone can become a producer overnight. That's because to me, a producer is someone who fully understands every aspect of making a track.

But if someone wants to call themselves a producer right after they made their 2nd beat and touched an EQ knob for the first time, so be it. I suppose because you created something, or "produced" something, that makes you a "producer". So, as long as we can communicate effectively, I'm cool with whatever you wanna call yourself - I may still disagree, but I respect the fact you are entitled to your opinion.

The bottom line is everyone has an opinion. To some people it's just semantics, but to others its not just semantics. Some people have strong meanings attached to certain words you may not. I don't think either side can definitively tell the other they are wrong - not in the "everything is relative" world of today.

The problem I have is when one side aggressively defends their position as absolute truth, resorting to calling the other person names, and telling them they don't know ****. **** that. Just because you don't agree with their definition doesn't mean it's wrong. If you show no respect for other peoples meaning of words, why should they respect yours?
 
for me...i dont call myself a producer,beat maker or any of those things..i would consider myself an aspiring musician ... i take piano lessons ... already play drums (my girl bout to break bread for a new V-studio set for me yyeeaaahhh) i enjoy listening and attempting to reproduce all types of music .. classical,country,rock,hip-hop,r&b
we all forget that theres a beauty in music..a lot cats are stuck on
"im a hip hop producer"

actually when you catagorize your self a beat maker .. producer ..you miss the bigger picture of musicianship which is what makes a good producer,beat maker the knowledge of the music ... ive heard good hip hop as well as bad by well known artists and underground musicians...hell ive heard some hot stuff here.. all im saying is learn the math of music ..theres a beauty in all music as a MUSICIAN you can see it .. producers beat maker ... why cant we just say musician .. is all im sayin

(sorry for the soap box speech)
 
mistaox said:


nice find...still proves my point...you dont have to play "many" instruments to bea a good composer/Musical director/producer..

correct ...not many just 1 or have a knowledge of music .. quincy jones is one of the greatest producers / musicians of all time and his primary instrument is a trumpet .. but he composed major musical pieces and launced some of the biggest names in the industry.. P-Diddy has been using samples for ever and is considered a great producer..but he has himself admitted he is no musician ?? go figure
good music = good music regardless the genre' or production process ... how many times on this site have you heard a smokin beat .. but the artist lacks the equipment to finalize it so it sounds hollow .. does that make the beat anyless hot ... is that a clue of horrible production work or a lack of musicianship .. truthfully you NEVER finish learning the art of makin music i think this is something we all need to grasp on to
 
this is a perfect answer to a lot of my questions... Thank you so much. Its confirmed, I am a PRODUCER, COMPOSER, ARRANGER, meaning I play several instruments, and finish the song to make it Radio Ready. Cool.
 
We are glad this zombie thread has been of service, then!

I cannot at this time personally vouch for the accuracy of any information contained herein, as I have not read the entire thread (and will not at this time). But your conclusion is sound.

GJ
 
It’s time to end the constant debate over what is a producer vs. a beat maker vs. a composer. Here is the real answer, not what you think but the facts. Mods should sticky this. Everyone should print this out and hang it up on your wall to help you stay on track to realizing your goal of becoming a good producer. BTW, this is paraphrased for the most part from a number of publications. So don't disagree with this just because you may not fall under the definition. Just do what you do. If you wanna work on becoming a composer or a producer, follow the right steps to becoming one.


Beat Maker:

This is what most of us in here are solely. A beat maker is a person who takes a number of samples (one-shot sound e.g. a single instrument note, drums, etc.), loops (e.g. sampled from a record, or loops in commercial/noncommercial libraries), or instrument emulations in keyboards, sound modules, synthesizer, and software instruments and uses them to make sequences. A beat maker strings together a number of these sequences (short phrases or pattern) into a complete instrumental.


Composer:

Simply put, a composer is a person who writes music (keyword: writes!!!). Many composers now use computers and other hardware to assist with composing music. But stringing together samples, loops, and sequences on a computer or sequencer does not qualify you as composer. A composer can also be a lyricist, songwriter and/or producer, however many composer are not lyricist and most do not produce at all.

Since composer write music for a number of instruments, they need to have a deep understanding of the instruments they are creating music for. This is why a composer is also a musician, sometimes capable of playing several instruments to professional standards. So composers are always musicians, but being a musician does not make you a composer.

Songwriters and composers share some similarities, both may write music and words to create a composition for the listener’s pleasure, but most composers (although not all) obtain music qualifications and concentrate on the musical aspect rather than word creation. They are also capable of producing long intricate scores based on a theme, whereas a songwriter may have no written qualifications and mainly concentrates on short tracks. So the key difference between a composer and songwriter is the composer focuses on the music more than words and usually writes long or complex scores based on a theme, while the songwriter focuses more on the words than the music and is usually making a short song, not long complex music.



Producer:

The Producers job is to help you get the recording that you want to make. A lot of times music producer is also a competent arranger, composer or songwriter who can bring fresh ideas to your tracks. This is especially true in hip hop, where the producer is usually also the person who made the beat or instrumental. But just making beats does not make you a producer or a composer. So in hip hop, a lot of the times the producer also is the beat maker or the composer, but many of the bigger name producers simply hire composers, arrangers, and songwriters to put together a song. In other genres of music, the producer is almost always a separate entity from the person who wrote the song and composed the music. This is especially true in rock bands, where the artist write and compose the song and outside producers come in to help make the track sound a certain way or to improve it.

As well as making any songwriting and arrangement adjustments, the producer is also in charge of the creative mix. He or she will collaborate with the sound engineer who concentrates on the technical aspects of recording. The music producer keeps an eye on the overall projects marketability. A lot of times, sound engineers end up becoming producers also.

Encouraging the best musical performance, coaching the artist and directing the backing vocalists are just a few of the mixture of functions that a music producer is expected to perform. They act as a go-between, translating your needs into the technician’s point of view and protect the artist and record labels interests.




PRODUCER QUALITIES
(print this and work on becoming as close to this as possible)

Advanced Musicianship
- Has spent a lot of time writing and collaborating on song
- Plays a lot of instruments
- Has a feel for song structure
- Has a feel for placing the song in the right key
- Has a feel for establishing the optimum bpm and achieving tight timing
- Understands vocal technique and vocal issues

Plays Well with Others
- Gets along well with technical types
- Gets along well with artistic types
- Is able to step into artists' dreams
- Is someone people like being around
- Upbeat and positive
- Can deal with sensitive artist egos
- Knows when to fight and when to surrender

Organizational Skills
- Has a plan for each session
- Works methodically toward the finish line
- Schedules on-call studio musicians
- Demonstrates ability to work within budgets

Knowledgeable
- Knows gear, computers, and software
- Understands digital and analog issues
- Familiar with mixing and mastering

Relentless
- Has a burning desire to create great recordings
- Doesn't get discouraged if things aren't going well at a particular session
- Flexible, not afraid to try new things if something's not working
- Unfazed by technical difficulties


Intuitive
- Able to visualize finished product
- Knows when an artist has a better take in them and when to move on
- Knows if it's worth it to suggest going over budget
- Has conviction in decision making without being dictatorial
- Knows when the song is done



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Hi,

Sometimes artists release songs where they put (prod. by somebeatmaker) but the song was not produced by this beatmaker. In this case, what should we put (beat by somebeatmaker)? Can you show some examples?

Best regards,

Matsunbatsa
 
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