How to make one whole cohesive song

young_liam_

New member
So here's my problem; I've gotten a lot better. My chord progressions are less boring, the melodies have more purpose, good rhythym, and I harmonize with other melodies. But now my problem is, all my beats are only 4 bar loops. I don't know how to add all the elements together and keep it interesting.

How do you keep a song from being repetitive?

I've heard less is more, but how do you do less without being repetitive?
 
well, I use a shitload of automations to keep it more interesting, I spend several hours only doing the automations, so yeah, try to make some cool effects with automations for effects and everything you can automate :D
 
Sketch out an arrangment from your loops so you have an idea of the structure of the song and know what the whole thing sounds like - then it's much easier to start doing, "a shitload of automations" for example. Even if the structure isn't final, you can probably hear better where it starts to get boring, or where you'll need to change something or take elements away or add something new. It doesn't need to be detailed at this point - just something like "intro xx bars, verse xx bars, chorus, verse, chorus etc.". You can always change this up later, but at least you get away from the 4-bar prison.
 
Hey young_liam_,

What you're looking for is a technique called Lyric-Less Storytelling - and you're right, it is extremely important in songwriting and it's often overlooked. And yet 99% of all hit songs are using LLS. So it definitely makes sense to look into it and learn how to keep your music interesting.

And today is your lucky day because you found the guy who wrote an entire book on exactly this subject matter :) You can find it here (Amazon): The Addiction Formula: A Holistic Approach to Writing Captivating, Memorable Hit Songs. With 317 Proven Commercial Techniques & 331 Examples, incl ... "All Of Me" (Holistic Songwriting) (Volume 1): Friedemann Findeisen: 9789082391305: Amazon.com: BooIt describes over 300 techniques that you can use to make your songs more captivating and interesting (and it comes with over 300 examples from hit songs as well)

You can also check out my blog here, which has a couple of tips and tricks concerning Lyric-Less Storytelling as well. Look at point 3 of this article for example:
3 Classic Tells That You’re An Amateur Songwriter (And How To Fix Them) – Holistic Songwriting (Official Blog)
If you have any further questions, let me know, I'm glad to help :)
 
So here's my problem; I've gotten a lot better. My chord progressions are less boring, the melodies have more purpose, good rhythym, and I harmonize with other melodies. But now my problem is, all my beats are only 4 bar loops. I don't know how to add all the elements together and keep it interesting.

How do you keep a song from being repetitive?

I've heard less is more, but how do you do less without being repetitive?

What are you using to make beats, if you don't mind me asking?
 
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Sketch out an arrangment from your loops so you have an idea of the structure of the song and know what the whole thing sounds like - then it's much easier to start doing, "a shitload of automations" for example. Even if the structure isn't final, you can probably hear better where it starts to get boring, or where you'll need to change something or take elements away or add something new. It doesn't need to be detailed at this point - just something like "intro xx bars, verse xx bars, chorus, verse, chorus etc.". You can always change this up later, but at least you get away from the 4-bar prison.

Hopefully young_liam_ knows how to count his bars and has a DAW that allow him to create use makers or locators.
 
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then it's much easier to start doing, "a shitload of automations" for example.

Sorry, Martin Garrix did infect me with "a shitload of"


Drawing such sketches is what I´ve done today, I also take refference tracks and sketch the way they flow in order to get inspiration how I gonna build up my drop in the end and the interlude in the final riff.
Sometimes drawing sketches brakes your unsureness how to go on, even if you don´t watch your sketches 1 single time after you did them. I recommend ALWAYS to get a pencil and some paper to write notes and draw sketches :D

@HolisticSongwriting, you´ve made me excited about learning something new once more :D I´ve never heared something about Lyric-Less Storytelling but this is exactly what I try to improve, in some tracks you have a whole scenario going on in your mind while you listen to a certain melodie, ofc some SFX will underline it, the track Cold Blue-Mount Everest will make up the epic Mount Everest in your mind, without having lyrics in it...only some mountain gurus in the background :D
 
I've heard less is more, but how do you do less without being repetitive?
Do it more slowly. Make a huge deal about the addition of every element, and make your chord sequences really long. Drag it out.

Minimalism is a nice way to work because by doing less, you force your listener to pay more attention to what's already there, and then because they are listening closely every small change has a big impact.

The alternative is to just, you know, add more things. A new chord sequence. A different drum pattern, maybe even a whole new synth. It helps to make a whole new section with a different pattern on everything rather than trying to fit new elements into an already crowded section.

The hard part is making the transition between the sections.
 
yeah exactly, because if your track is way too bussy, you make a though listening for your audience, that´s why super simple stuff like comercial pop is so great and everyone loves it, it´s rediculous simple, but great ;D
I think the key behind creating good flawless music is to create something big with a small amount of sounds. But I am a sucker for details, love using good FX and stuff like that.

Practice, practice, practice, I am so glad being at a point where I know how to produce music I am super proud of, but it took a lot of time and even close family members of mine told me in begining I should start doing something else, but stop doing music :D in 1-2 years with proper practice, you will laugh about this post and feel even more proud about what you´ve achieved, be happy with the knowledge and skill you already have :D
 
My question guys is basically what do you start with, chord progressions, melodies, drums?

What is your method, and how do you build of of it?

Take me through the steps because my method is really starting to bore me.
 
I tend to start out with whatever gives me the inspiration to start in the first place - then I build a bunch of clips (in Ableton Live) on top of that and when I think I have enough for the fundamentals of the track, I hit record and play out an arrangement from those clips in real time. Then I start fixing it - if there's something to fix - and working on the details.
 
Its all about the lyrics that play a vital role in that composing, so one must be careful while getting to such creativity ever
 
I tend to start out with whatever gives me the inspiration to start in the first place - then I build a bunch of clips (in Ableton Live) on top of that and when I think I have enough for the fundamentals of the track, I hit record and play out an arrangement from those clips in real time. Then I start fixing it - if there's something to fix - and working on the details.

Exactly, it a starts with inspiration! It's also important to know your gear too. Ableton Live 9 is at the head o my DAW. I'm also using Roland Aira TR8 and TB3 along with a Novation Mininova and Yamaha MX49. Each instrument inspires me when I play them individually and together. Getting them all to work together was a challenge at first, then I figured it out. Now, I'm getting back into the swing of things and having fun. Sometimes I'll start with the TB3 and other times I'll start with Ableton Push or the MX49. It depends on what sounds are good for the songs being made during sessions.
 
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Sorry, Martin Garrix did infect me with "a shitload of"

Same here. :/
@HolisticSongwriting, you´ve made me excited about learning something new once more :D I´ve never heared something about Lyric-Less Storytelling but this is exactly what I try to improve, in some tracks you have a whole scenario going on in your mind while you listen to a certain melodie, ofc some SFX will underline it, the track Cold Blue-Mount Everest will make up the epic Mount Everest in your mind, without having lyrics in it...only some mountain gurus in the background :D

Good to hear :) Have you subscribed to my newsletter yet (the banner on the right)? I share some cool exclusive material on songwriting & production there :)
 
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