Help... My melodies SUCK

CDotF

CDotF

Rapper Slash Producer
Hey guys, so I decided to post here after lurking for a week or so.

Here's the deal; I'm a rapper, not a producer. After years of relying on my producer buddies to produce the instrumentals that I rap on, I wanted to try my hand at making my own beats.. Something about controlling my own sound really appeals to me.

But here's my problem: I can't seem to create a decent melody if my life depended on it!

I have a copy of Reason plus a MIDI controller (AKAI LPK25) for the home studio. I would mess around Reason, trying out different patches and hitting notes on the keyboard. My melodies all just sound.. wrong. Like, something's lacking and it wouldn't be enough to carry the entire song.

I'd be able to create a melody that sounds decent, but that's like every one in five hundred LOL... It all feels like I'm shooting in the dark, beginner's luck sort of thing.

So I guess I'm posting here to get some feedback from more experienced producers. What should I do to improve the melodies that I create?

I don't really care so much for learning the piano as much as I want to understand the relationship between different notes and all that. For some reason I can't help but think that there's some sort of theory that will explain how each notes relate to each other to figure out which ones sound good together.

Sort of like how pianists can improvise and just jam on the boards and come up with really pleasant sounding melodies.

BTW, if you're wondering, the beats that I envision creating are minimalistic beats driven by simple single note melodies (or what sounds like single note melodies, not chords), usually using the piano. Examples would be:

2pac's "Ambitionz Az A Ridah"
Snoop Dogg's "Lay Low"
Jay-Z's "Moment Of Clarity"
Jay-Z's "Reminder"
J. Cole's "Higher"
Method Man and ODB's "Dirty Mef"
B.o.B. "Nothing On You"

etc. etc.

Would appreciate any advice you guys would be able to give.. Thanks in advance.

---------- Post added at 03:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 AM ----------

Hmmm.. On second thought, this might be better placed in the Theory, Composing section? I'll leave it up to the mods to the decide.
 
Man if your melodies suck, I would leave the job to the producers! I mean the technical stuff is the stuff you can really learn, the melody part? Usually comes from talented/imaginative people of this field.

ALTHOUGH, I do suggest listening to as much hip-hop music as you can, and really zoning out the lyrics and listen to the instrumentation. Once you start getting your first melodies down, it'll get easier. Just stay imaginative, the world wont crumble if you mess around and it doesnt work too well. :)
 
This is a broad question. Study music theory and just practice. Also in the songs you mentioned there is allot more going on then simply single notes on the piano and drums. Once you understand how to stay in key and form chords it just comes naturally then you just explore an see what you come up with. There are limitless resources on music theory. a good place to start would be the stickied thread in the theory section explaining chords and scales at a basic level.
 
Why dont you make a melody using the rapping and make a track that supports it? I don't know if you'll understand what I'm tryin to say but you can check my page: www.soundclick.com/tapiwa and listen to 1 or 2 beats in which I think a melody would sound better coming from a rapper than from the synths or pianos.
 
You say you don't want to learn the piano huh? I think you should. The piano is a great guide itself to making music. Music actually looks like a piano(relatively)! I say this a lot on here but its so important to the way I understand music theory and I keep trying to find better ways to say it to you guys....

The Key of C is all white keys so just use C for now until you learn what other keys look like. for example here is what C normally looks it is all the white notes.
Musical_keyboard.png


Now if you wanted C# to be seen more clearly then you could shift each color one note in either direction. I'm gonna shift each color up one note to reveal The correct notes for C#.

Musical_keyboardC.png



To transpose in Fruity Loops while in piano roll just hold: ALT +↓or↑
It wont shift the colors but it will shift the actual pattern.






Now that I hopefully talked you guys into learning C first because the piano was built around it; Now I will show you a general technique to help create better harmonies and melodies.
quickmelodylesson.png



Of course this isn't the end all be all and i could confuse you even more when I tell you some black notes can be in C too.. specifically G# but i don't want add more confusion. I am just trying to shine a little light on the harmonizing aspects.
 
practicing scales is very good for you. not only for your technical proficiency but for your ears as well. The point is to get the stuff thats in your head, out. Practice helps your brain and fingers communicate easier.
 
yooo

hey Cdot i find myself having the same problem somtimes...and you know what helps... copy your rhythym keys or bass notes and just raise the octave on it...after that u can just play with them until you find something that you can envision someone spittin on...

my problem is that ive always been a musician and when i create a melody i tend to forget i want someone spittin on it...so my leads tend to be TOO much sometimes... but it happens...

hope it helps.
 
Thanks for all the advice folks!

I went ahead and got the Idiot's Guide To Music Theory as that seems to be the popular consensus around here.

Marty: I'm sure the info you posted is excellent and trust me I really appreciate taking the time, but it's all sort of flying over my head right now. I got the first half of it. But how did you determine that A minor goes well with C? And in the last diagram, what do the blue notes, the light blue notes and the red notes exactly stand for?

And TheNewGodBeats: I did leave the production side to the producers for years and years. Always just thought that I didn't have the talent for producing so I focused on the rapping. But then I got the itch to make beats again, and I figured I'd give it a shot since that's what creating music is all about right? I sucked when I first started rapping but after years of honing my craft I got better at it :)
 
Hey CDot, that's a good book, I learned so much from it. Just take your time with it, and its good to refer to a piano or a MIDI controller with a decent piano vst loaded up. When I read it, I went really slow and I bought a notebook just to take notes as I went along. I filled 1 notebook with "Idiot's Guide to Music Theory" and another notebook with the second part of that series, I can't remember the name off the top of my head, it was something like Composition for Idiots (its by the same dude, so won't be hard to find).
But yea, if you want to really start getting into melodies and just music theory in general, read that book and take your time until you understand, because getting through it quicker doesn't mean you'll learn anything faster. Good luck on your music theory voyage, brother

Peace
 
Thanks Farmer Joe. I started reading it last week, and I'll make sure to really read it in depth. I'll hold off from buying the music composition book just so I'm sure to really dig in the first one.

I'm deciding to hold off on dropping 500 bones for Logic Studio (been fiending for it since I saw RedOne's video interview with Keyboard magazine) and get really proficient with all the stuff inside Reason. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could get all the sounds I need within that program alone, right? Or should I go ahead and start saving up for Logic Studio now?

---------- Post added 08-31-2010 at 12:52 AM ---------- Previous post was 08-30-2010 at 11:59 PM ----------

Quick follow up: I realized one major flaw with my beats, and it's mediocre drums.

Looking over the stuff I've made so far, with the beats I've made that actually sound good... I've managed to create a dope drum loop with them. It helps my creative process a lot when I'm working within a dope rhythm, but the opposite also applies: when the drums are weak, everything that comes after that is weak as well.

So at least now I'm finding out which aspects I need to work with.
 
I got the first half of it. But how did you determine that A minor goes well with C?
Click to expand...

It is kinda hard for me to explain...
Each chord only exists with in 3 different major keys.

A min exists in C Maj(both scales are made of the same notes, I think of C Maj and A min as the same thing. C Maj is the happy version and A min is the sad version)

A min can also be in G or F(G and F use all white notes except one black note BTW)

And in the last diagram, what do the blue notes, the light blue notes and the red notes exactly stand for?
Click to expand...

All the blue notes, light and dark are just an A min Chord.
The red notes are just showing that every white note is in the key of C.

Any of the white notes will make for a good melody in the key of c. You can play red and blue notes but the blue notes will ring the most even with the A min chord because they are actual intervals of the chord. Use these intervals as focal points when writing your melodies,.

Sorry for being so confusing. I Confuse my band too. I haven't figured out the best way to explain the way I envision music.
 
CDotF said:
Thanks for all the advice folks!

I went ahead and got the Idiot's Guide To Music Theory as that seems to be the popular consensus around here.

Marty: I'm sure the info you posted is excellent and trust me I really appreciate taking the time, but it's all sort of flying over my head right now. I got the first half of it. But how did you determine that A minor goes well with C? And in the last diagram, what do the blue notes, the light blue notes and the red notes exactly stand for?

And TheNewGodBeats: I did leave the production side to the producers for years and years. Always just thought that I didn't have the talent for producing so I focused on the rapping. But then I got the itch to make beats again, and I figured I'd give it a shot since that's what creating music is all about right? I sucked when I first started rapping but after years of honing my craft I got better at it :)
Click to expand...
That is a GREAT book. I am currently reading it, on Chapter 2 (Intervals and Scales, and such). It has really helped me ground myself with my ideas I have in my head. I have a music background, but that was in elementary and middle school. So, this book is REALLY coming in handy and yea, learning the basics of the piano.
 
I gotta say, I've barely scratched the surface with the music theory stuff I'm studying, but wow. Just reading up on what I can, really absorbing the lessons and practicing has helped A LOT.

I'm able to come up with much better melodies just jamming on the keys. Not everything sounds good, but im definitely coming up with much better tunes than ever.

A huge part of it, i realized, is having a big picture in your head about what you want the beat to sound like, instead of loading up random patches and hoping something will work.

I realize that one of the reasons my beats sucked was because I had no idea which instruments go with what, so in turn not only do i get left with a beat with crappy drums and a shitty melody but it felt sparse, bringing out the suckiness of the melody as well.
 
My 2 cents: KeneticBeats is right. The real trick to doing anything is to spend a lot of time doing it and actively trying to improve. There's no substitute for that.

If you're looking for something practical you can do, I always find that I get inspired by learning how to play the melodies that I love in other songs. When you do that, you develop a better understanding of how producers you respect create their own melodies. Pay attention to the spacing (intervals) and timing of the notes and use those concepts when you are creating your next melody. Chances are that it'll sound nothing like the song that inspired you, but you'll have some new tools to draw from while creating.

Dana
 
sometimes I find myself sitting there tapping keys to create a great melody for ages, but it pays off. Don't just do a quick melody because you want it to be put out quick.
 
thedanahocking said:
If you're looking for something practical you can do, I always find that I get inspired by learning how to play the melodies that I love in other songs. When you do that, you develop a better understanding of how producers you respect create their own melodies. Pay attention to the spacing (intervals) and timing of the notes and use those concepts when you are creating your next melody. Chances are that it'll sound nothing like the song that inspired you, but you'll have some new tools to draw from while creating.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of that the past couple of weeks. Watching Youtube tutorials and trying to replicate the melodies that producers come up with, etc.

It's pretty amazing, it's almost like I'm "internalizing" melodies and notes and somehow someway some good shit comes out when I'm hammering on the keys. That, combined with a bit of music theory (just knowing the whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half scale thing has helped me tremendously already) and I seem to be improving quite a lot.

Just steady practicing.. I'll upload some loops here in the future to get feedback. Thanks all
 
i say, learn some keyboard/piano basics and some theory. After that its all application and practice. Or you can always come up with a melody in your head and try to play it out note by note on the keys, but it wont be easy if you dont already have some understanding of tones/ half steps and whole steps...
 
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