Effects added to beats

L

livinlegend

New member
Sup FP,

Just another quick question that I am getting mixed feedback on. I was always under the impression that effects and automations such as tapestops filters etc are added somewhere near the mastering phase, or after vocals have been laid. I might add 1 or two to give the beat a little bit of flavor but when sending beats to artists should I add effects and automations or should I leave them plain and the engineer or producer can add them later? I have had some tell me to add automations while others suggest leaving them out.

Also when sending beats to artists, should I send them maybe 1 verse and the hook or should I send them the entire beat. Any other tips etc etc will also be appreciated.
 
Koss I mean in general, is that something that I should be doing or is that something that happens after the track has been recorded by the producer/engineer
 
Well this depends on the guys involved.Also depends on how you send files.He[], you could send em stems with and without the effects to slash time.

Difficult question because something like that, it varies 24/7 unless the others are regulars if you understands.Now although I'ma hobby man, I wouldn't be advising a guy to give somebody the full package (If you make money from it then I wouldn't advise that) snippets would work well enough, about a minute in length then if they likes it they'll get at you I guess.

If you aren't sure, you can add the effects on the track to gauge them's reactions to it and adjust accordingly.
 
Why would you be sending beats to an artist before they are even mixed anyway?

Fx are mostly done in mixing, not mastering like you said. But today with more and more people mixing and mastering there own projects, lots of songs get half ass mixed along the way as you're recording. So some people add effects before mixing, some wait till mixing. Either is fine assuming you're mixing the song yourself.

Mastering can add effects if they think its necessary but generally its done in mixing not mastering like you said.

But again, why would you be sending beats to an artist before they're mixed and have effects?
 
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Yumid said:
Why would you be sending beats to an artist before they are even mixed anyway?

Fx are mostly done in mixing, not mastering like you said. But today with more and more people mixing and mastering there own projects, lots of songs get half ass mixed along the way as you're recording. So some people add effects before mixing, some wait till mixing. Either is fine assuming you're mixing the song yourself.

Mastering can add effects if they think its necessary but generally its done in mixing not mastering like you said.

But again, why would you be sending beats to an artist before they're mixed and have effects?
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Yumid i'll give you an example so you can understand where I am coming from...

Lets say an artist has a mixtape coming out in 3 months and requests artist send beats to for potential placement opportunities. So I finish a beat, send it to be mixed. Beat comes back ready to go. Levels good, everything sounding good about the beat. I always figured that effects would be added after the vocals just because that gives an artist more room to work vs me sending him beats with effects already added on. Plus if they want to change the fx they won't have to contact me about doing so. I really am just trying to figure out which is generally the right way to go. Fx can bring a beat to life but if the artist isn't feeling them then that can kill the placement opportunity.
 
send em what is asked for, which will usually be the stems, but only after they have paid for them!

fx will be their mix decision not yours, especially things like tape stops as they need to fit the artistic vision of the performer not just the composer/creator
 
bandcoach said:
send em what is asked for, which will usually be the stems, but only after they have paid for them!

fx will be their mix decision not yours, especially things like tape stops as they need to fit the artistic vision of the performer not just the composer/creator
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stems???

Anywho thanks bandcoach, exactly the answer I was looking for.
 
bandcoach said:
send em what is asked for, which will usually be the stems, but only after they have paid for them!

fx will be their mix decision not yours, especially things like tape stops as they need to fit the artistic vision of the performer not just the composer/creator
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That makes sense too, when I answered I was assuming the artist was wanting a finished beat just to rap over and knew nothing about mixing..but now that I'm thinking about it that wouldnt really help them much. Its just thats how most of the guys I know buy beats, even though its half retarded.

livinlegend said:
stems???

Anywho thanks bandcoach, exactly the answer I was looking for.
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Stems are just the individual tracks used for mixing. Like say you have your guitar recording if there is one, that guitar recording is just one stem in your session.
 
Yumid I really didn't understand it either. As an artist I would want to hear a finished beat as well but again that limits the creativity phase for the artist so thats why I was thinking it happened somewhere near the mastering phase.

Ok so stems are basically just separating the channels in FL and sending them separately. That seems pretty time consuming.
 
livinlegend said:
Yumid I really didn't understand it either. As an artist I would want to hear a finished beat as well but again that limits the creativity phase for the artist so thats why I was thinking it happened somewhere near the mastering phase.

Ok so stems are basically just separating the channels in FL and sending them separately. That seems pretty time consuming.
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what do you mean separating the channels? You're channels are already separated themselves..I don't think you're following. I didnt mean one single guitar recording was one channel(if you are doing multi recordings per track) - I meant your compilation of guitar takes on that single track would be one stem. Then the mixer would just pick through the playlists and pick which recording he would use if that were your scenario.

And no i meant the other way, it makes sense to me that the artist would need the stems so they can mix them to taste. Its just that most of my friends who bought beats in the past don't know shit about mixing so they always bought full beats. That would hinder their ability to fit the vocals in though.

But again back to separating the individual channels, what did you mean by that exactly cuz I cant make sense of what you might be talking about.
 
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I'm assuming we're talking about sending an artist a beat to hear in hopes they want to use it? In this case, I'd suggest sending something that sounds similar to any other commercially released instrumental track with a little more headroom in case they decide to use it without asking for it tracked out. So...your instrumental should sound like.....


I'm sure most of that was done to the finished record after vocals were added, but you're gonna want your clients to get a similar professional experience listening to your tracks, just don't overdo it to the point a song can't be created to the track you're providing because it's too all over the place.

If they are requesting tracked out files of whatever you've sent, you want to ask specifics to the individual client. Some will feel it's a deal breaker if they lose that filter on the chorus or drop right before the chorus. Others would prefer their engineer add the to go along with the song. You gotta ask specifics at that point, because while in a perfect world this shouldn't be true.....9/10, if they like everything as it is, they're not hitting you back for stems(the tracked out version).
 
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Yumid I don't have a great understanding of the process because its new to me but I thought it was pretty much separating the different instruments then sending them as separate wav files. I am going to do more reading up on it to get a better understanding.

Deranged thats the exact situation. I wanna start sending artists tracks in hopes they would use them but I am not sure whether to leave them kind of simple and let the producer/engineer come up with the edits or is that something I should be looking to create. The filters in that track are cool but the chops or stutters whatever you may call I feel had to be done after the vocals were laid.

I just don't want to end up in a situation where my track can't be used because the vocals dont match up to the effects that were sent as part of the beat.
 
livinlegend said:
Yumid I don't have a great understanding of the process because its new to me but I thought it was pretty much separating the different instruments then sending them as separate wav files.
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No you're thinking to far ahead, at this stage you aren't bouncing anything to a .wav yet. The mixer will need your actual DAW session folder with the session file and all the session information inside of it. By stems I mean the tracks WITHIN your DAW Pre bounce. The mixer actually picks up and keeps working on the same session you left off on prior to bouncing it to a .wav.
 
Yumid said:
No you're thinking to far ahead, at this stage you aren't bouncing anything to a .wav yet. The mixer will need your actual DAW session folder with the session file and all the session information inside of it. By stems I mean the tracks WITHIN your DAW Pre bounce. The mixer actually picks up and keeps working on the same session you left off on prior to bouncing it to a .wav.
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this is not necessarily true

for a start unless they are using the exact version of the daw you are using and have the exact same versions of all of your vsts/aus/aaxs/etc that will not work

secondly, most folks here are going to be using fl as their daw, but the mix facility will most likely have protools or nuendo or some other high end audio workstation sw

stems are the individual trackouts from your daw, not compiled versions of all guitar parts on one track (to use your example from above)

for most daws you will also need to track out each stem as a full length wav/aiff/flac file, as there is no easy way to import a session file (the file containing tracks and positions) from one daw to another (I would be very happy to be told that this is not so, btw, but my experience so far suggests that it just isn't possible)
 
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bandcoach said:
this is not necessarily true

for a a start unless they are using the exact version of the daw you are using and have the exact some versions of all of your vsts/aus/aaxs/etc that will not work

secondly, most folks here are going to be using fl as their daw, but the mix facility will most likely have protools or nuendo or some other high end audio workstation sw

stems are the individual trackouts from your daw, not compiled versions of all guitar parts on one track (to use your example from above)

for most daws you will also need to track out each stem as a full length wav/aiff/flac file, as there is no easy way to import a session file (the file containing tracks and positions) from one daw to another (I would be very happy to told that this is not so, btw, but my experience so far suggests that it just isn't possible)
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Yah my head was screwed on backwards when I was typing that last response. Im so used to working in Pro Tools only so we haven't had to unpack any stems or anything. Just keep working right through on the same file. But yah I was obviously wrong.

I don't even know why I said it because just the other night I had to unzip a bunch of stems from a different DAW file and import the files back into PT so I don't know how I got that wrong.
 
livinlegend said:
Yumid I don't have a great understanding of the process because its new to me but I thought it was pretty much separating the different instruments then sending them as separate wav files. I am going to do more reading up on it to get a better understanding.

Deranged thats the exact situation. I wanna start sending artists tracks in hopes they would use them but I am not sure whether to leave them kind of simple and let the producer/engineer come up with the edits or is that something I should be looking to create. The filters in that track are cool but the chops or stutters whatever you may call I feel had to be done after the vocals were laid.

I just don't want to end up in a situation where my track can't be used because the vocals dont match up to the effects that were sent as part of the beat.
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Up until the 3:30 or so mark, most stuff I'd shop sounds similar as far as constant transitions, drops, introductions of new instruments for key parts to never hear them again, drops, ect. It absolutely depends on genre of music and your own style, do stuff you feel comfortable with, but these days, those are the sounds of hip hop for the most part(unless you go the DJ mustard route or create your own lane). I'm never scared to experiment and give crazy arrangements, 9/10 that's gonna be your selling point. The thing that makes your beat stick out.

In all fairness, I'm an engineer before producer, and was a rapper before anything, so i guess i can hear how much those types of things WON'T mess up a rapper or songwriter, but influence how they work. I can't say for sure any of that stuff other than the outro didn't exist before vocals were added, I can say, they would have no negative impact before they had a positive one in most case scenarios. That's why I specifically picked that beat. Here's an example of stuff I'd currently shop in the exact state I'd shop it....

SoundClick artist: Phuk'dup Beats - Can't think of anything cool to type here.
 
I would send them with effects and stuff, and if they dont like some effects, since I didn't delete my project files, I can just go back in and edit out what they dont want.
 
TheSaka24 said:
I would send them with effects and stuff, and if they dont like some effects, since I didn't delete my project files, I can just go back in and edit out what they dont want.
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So if your mixer doesnt like one reverb you want him to contact you again for one reverbless stem? Thats annoying.

Use Aux tracks for effects ! Don't print subjective effects right on to the audio because then its stuck there.
 
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