Audio Engineering/Production Courses

[livinlegend]

I am looking at taking some some courses in the near future. I have always pondered the idea but wasn't to fond of paying for it. I found out that some universites offer these courses and I can use my GI Bill to cover the tuition. Anyone have experience with these. As of right now the only credible ones I found so far seem to be Berkley. Are there any other alternatives to this? Also looking at the cirriculum, FL studio is not covered in any of the classes. I see PT, Reason, and Logic, knowing this information, would now be a good time to get a new DAW?

 

[Yumid]

I am looking at taking some some courses in the near future. I have always pondered the idea but wasn't to fond of paying for it. I found out that some universites offer these courses and I can use my GI Bill to cover the tuition. Anyone have experience with these. As of right now the only credible ones I found so far seem to be Berkley. Are there any other alternatives to this? Also looking at the cirriculum, FL studio is not covered in any of the classes. I see PT, Reason, and Logic, knowing this information, would now be a good time to get a new DAW?

Background? Commitment? etc?? Berkley is expensive, don't just decide to go because you think it will be easier if they teach you.

You aren't gonna find ANY school which teaches FL Studio. And I'm not gonna voice why because it'll just turn into another one of 'those threads'. BUT, Fl Studio is a full daw, ill leave it at that.

Usually id type quite a lot on a question like this but I have no idea about you or what you have done/ want to do. So tell us more. Odds are if you have never done anything related to this Berkley will eat you up. And even if you are experienced, Berkley itself is still way too expensive compared to what you can get from cheaper ones + researching on your own.

 

[livinlegend]

Background? Commitment? etc?? Berkley is expensive, don't just decide to go because you think it will be easier if they teach you.

You aren't gonna find ANY school which teaches FL Studio. And I'm not gonna voice why because it'll just turn into another one of 'those threads'. BUT, Fl Studio is a full daw, ill leave it at that.

Usually id type quite a lot on a question like this but I have no idea about you or what you have done/ want to do. So tell us more. Odds are if you have never done anything related to this Berkley will eat you up. And even if you are experienced, Berkley itself is still way too expensive compared to what you can get from cheaper ones + researching on your own.

Hey Yumid, I have no musical background, but music is something that I have learned to love and I want to do it for a long time. Berkley is expensive, but again the money is coming out of the governments wallet, not mine. I wanted to go that route because learning from youtube and other various sources you develop bad habits as well as start doing things without any knowledge on why you are doing. There are so many techniques that I use when making music that I have no idea why I am doing it but I just do it because it works, if that makes sense. I don't neccesariliy need to "learn" FL studio as that is the only DAW I have ever used I had a pretty decent understanding of it. I am not opposed to going to a less prestigous school outside of Berkley, Berkley was the first school I found that looked like it had a legit program, I am definitely open to others. Pretty much I see myself doing music in some form or fashion for many years to come, because of that I figure why not invest in it and actually get some structured learning. I am only looking to take certain classes they offer which I feel could help me better my craft.

 

[B Side Producer]

There's probably a 1000 posts discussing exactly the same issue. Use the search function on the forum for your answers please.

 

[livinlegend]

B Side and those 1000 posts are usually from misinformed people with no direct knowledge of what is being asked only going off what they read elsewhere.

 

[B Side Producer]

Your making no sense to me. Your exact question has been properly answered on this forum probably a 1000 times. Use or don't use the search function is up to you if you'd like the internet way of getting information and reviews about what you seek. There's nothing gonna be written in this topic that hasn't been written in the other 1000 topics.

 

[livinlegend]

B Side you are assuming that I did not already search the forums which is false. I wanted actual information about these courses, from someone with any experience with them. I don't want to sift through the 1000's of post which I actually did most of already reading about how something sucks because of the cost which is what 90% of the threads point out to, or how there is free information on youtube. All I am asking is for information from someone who actually used these type of services. I think we both can agree on the instance that most of what comes from the threads already on here are from people with no prior knowledge jumping on the bashing train. Pretty much looking for anyone with a positive experience or any insight past the cost of tuition at these places.

 

[Pumpthrust]

Livinglegend got a point. Most of those threads are usually, "baaah, you don't need to go to no school to learn nuthin. I didn't go to school so why should you?" Mainly, "how dare you decide to go to school to learn something I spent thousands of dollars and wasted hours of pointless trial and error to do? Y U No use Youtube?"

 

[livinlegend]

Pumpthrust thank you for understanding, half the information, maybe even most comes from people who never took a day of the classes. While I already know these classes won't make me the next Kanye West I do expect to pick up a lot of fundamentals which will only better my craft. I guess since there are no replies from people on the subject that we can confirm that the other 1000 posts on this subject were made by sheeps being hearded into an opinion without even having factual information. I am just going to take the dive and try it, I will update the board as well as anyone else who wants info on the subject. As for now just deciding whether berklee or fullsail, both around the same price which will be covered by the government. Berklees classes are longer which could be good or bad. Fullsail gives you a new laptop and other things which could be beneficial. So as of right now I will be starting in September, just a matter of where.

 

[bandcoach]

of the two I have heard better reports about Berklee than FullSail from those who have graduated from both

My son is studying at a Berklee affiliate in Australia, and has nothing but praise for the course work and hands-on time (4 students in a studio for 4 hours every week recording and mixing/mastering)

the laptop from FullSail comes out of the course fees so don't be conned by that. Also it will be obsolete by the time you graduate

 

[B Side Producer]

Your making no sense to me. Your exact question has been properly answered on this forum probably a 1000 times. Use or don't use the search function is up to you if you'd like the internet way of getting information and reviews about what you seek. There's nothing gonna be written in this topic that hasn't been written in the other 1000 topics.

There's a lot of those , but there's also a lot of posts that holds answers like bandcoach just gave.

Anyway, unless you pick a very bad school, school is always gonna learn you stuff. I looked into schools in my neighborhood (The Netherlands) and I found quite a lot expensive schools.

There's a few that stand out:
Found through online research, online reviews of students and superficial validity of how they present themselves and how they react when I call em up for information. So, all subjective. I didn't eventually go to the step to go to the different colleges.


- Berklee online: Berklee has good overall credit. They are expensive. Their online courses can be used to get the actual degree but you then have to go to Berklee to finish your degree. Otherwise, you'll only have a certificate. That was so a few years back. Other then that they have a lot of choice.
- SAE: very expensive over here. Good overall credit.

Holland, this won't help you:
- Herman brood academy. Very good, sponsored by the state if you meet the requirements.
- Conservatorium alkmaar, e-musician: I actually went here for a Saxophone workshop of a day long. Was awesome. I also got to ask stuff about their e-musician course. Which is the best you can get in NL.
- Les Studio Techniek : Parttime education that actually get's you a national credited job certificate. You get taught by succesful producers. 1 day in the week, lot's of hands on experience, not expensive like the others.

Anyway, this is what I can give you. I know this is not what you've asked for as I didn't actually go to the schools, I did however researched it quite a lot, maybe it can help.

The reasons to go to a school are very personal. As you said, the school isn't per definition gonna make you succesful. It is however gonna make you learn lot's of new theories, make you able to make connections, get you a degree if you pick the right school, give you lot's of resources as in hardware, tutors, help you with whatever you are struggling with.
Lot's of people say they don't need it. Also, there's a lot of beat producers that throw a beat together in a few minutes. The question would be if you want the easiest and most succesful way for you to throw a beat together with the DAW of your choice, or if you actually want to learn more about different techniques and all about sound production and engineering. You could learn lot's by yourself, that's true, but there's still lot's of advantages of following an actual education. There's lot's of ways to success and it's a personal choice on how you wanna get there. If you have the chance, I'd definitely go to school , if you actually want to learn about production and/or engineering.

 

[livinlegend]

of the two I have heard better reports about Berklee than FullSail from those who have graduated from both

My son is studying at a Berklee affiliate in Australia, and has nothing but praise for the course work and hands-on time (4 students in a studio for 4 hours every week recording and mixing/mastering)

the laptop from FullSail comes out of the course fees so don't be conned by that. Also it will be obsolete by the time you graduate

Thanks for the reply bandcoach,

Glad to hear your son is liking Berklee. Comparing the two there are more things I like about Berklee than Full Sail. I totally understand the supplies come out of the tuition, but as all of it will be covered for me that really isn't a concern. I am mostly concerned about going to a school where I can learn new skillsets to help with producing. I think what will be the deciding factor is which of the two will take the most transfer credits. I already have a bachelors degree and I really am not willing to retake gen ed classes or things of that nature. I will have know who is going to be giving what sometime soon.

 

[B Side Producer]

Don't forget connections. Going to a university/school/ whatever building they use to educate you has always provided me with lot's of connections for ideas, help, resources and whatnot.

 

[Pumpthrust]

don't forget connections. Going to a university/school/ whatever building they use to educate you has always provided me with lot's of connections for ideas, help, resources and whatnot.

^^^this

 

[livinlegend]

I definitely am looking forward to the networking opportunities, I think that alone is reason enough that if you can afford it to atleast give it a shot. I think thats the only area where fullsail shines. They seem to have a bigger online student body which I pray most aren't duds and are actually motivated to learn something.

 

[Yumid]

Forums weren't letting me reply for some reason

Hey Yumid, I have no musical background, but music is something that I have learned to love and I want to do it for a long time. Berkley is expensive, but again the money is coming out of the governments wallet, not mine. I wanted to go that route because learning from youtube and other various sources you develop bad habits as well as start doing things without any knowledge on why you are doing. There are so many techniques that I use when making music that I have no idea why I am doing it but I just do it because it works, if that makes sense. I don't neccesariliy need to "learn" FL studio as that is the only DAW I have ever used I had a pretty decent understanding of it. I am not opposed to going to a less prestigous school outside of Berkley, Berkley was the first school I found that looked like it had a legit program, I am definitely open to others. Pretty much I see myself doing music in some form or fashion for many years to come, because of that I figure why not invest in it and actually get some structured learning. I am only looking to take certain classes they offer which I feel could help me better my craft.

'Structured learning' doesnt have to cost you 80 grand though. The way I look at school (for audio) is just as another platform for learning. They can set a really good foundation for you but regardless of how expensive/prestigious the school is; the bottom line is that if you don't take what you learn there and expand and learn more on your own time you will be downright f*&%ed. Any 'reputable' school between 20-80k(although keep in mind even some over 20K are garbage) is going to lay enough of a foundation down for you to learn enough on your own time.
The best thing about Berklee(i think this is true) is that they teach you everything on hardware first before you learn anything on software. Which, after using both, I agree would make learning software way easier if you were to do hardware first. But this is what you are paying for. My school is 60 THOUSAND dollars less than Berklee and I love it. We only have 1 actual studio HARDWARE class a week, but classes are small and we can book as much extra studio time/sit on on sessions as we want so technically our studio access is still 24/7.

Another thing I need to point out is that you said "and I know going to school isn't going to make me the next Kanye or anything" this right here is a red flag for me. The fact you are even associating audio engineering school with what kanye does hints to me that you don't really know what you're getting yourself into. I see sooooooo many guys join engineering school because they want to make music or be a rapper. Sure you learn aspects of producing, but you are going to be an engineer. EXPECT to do a lot of editing, digital signal processing, etc- stuff that you haven't even thought of before or would have never even began or thought to start learning on your own because you would have never thought it to be relevant to what YOU want to do. Don't just realize that school won't turn you into next Kanye, UNDERSTAND that that's NOT what school is even for and if thats solely what you want you ARE taking the wrong and too expensive path. You will essentially be paying 80 grand to learn how to process your own songs which honestly isn't really gonna get you anywhere unless you already had some sort of prodigy rapping/producing ability.

With all that being said, as long as you KNOW why you are going (the reality of why, not the why YOU want to go) and you are going to commit to being an engineer, NOT a producer (at first anyway) then you won't regret it assuming money is no issue. But I have a feeling you don't really understand what you're gonna be going to school for.

And one more thing, I'm Pro School for engineering because although 80% of the studying is done on your own, like I've already mentioned here, school is great for teaching you WHAT to study on your own and setting a foundation. If I wasn't introduced to all this stuff by school I would have been completely lost and wouldnt have known what to study in the first place. Sure I could have lurked online and figured it all out through random discoveries over a couple years or so. Instead I was able to get a grasp on the basics (so far, only one semester in) in less than 3 months. We just finished our "mixing, Software, in the box" semester and now we are moving on to more hardware recording next semester.

Bottom line in my opinion is that school is only a foundation, they aren't gonna teach you everything there is to know because thats impossible in the time you're there. Most of the learning will and HAS TO BE done on your own. So, considering that I would NOT pay 80 grand to goto school for audio because a 20 thousand dollar school(a good 20k one!, research is up to you not me, I did my research on canadian schools not american) is going to set you on the same path as an 80 thousand dollar school. In the end how far you go is 100% up to you, but choosing Berklee just throws an addition 60 thousand bucks on something that essentially you are going to be doing all the work for.

The connections/discussions/foundation are WHY you goto school for audio. I personally believe the cost of your school doesnt matter as long as they know what they're talking about. How much you learn is up to you not how good your school is. I know the governments paying and everything but I'm
Canadian and have no idea what you're talking about with GI so I'm just treating it as money regardless of who's paying. Im sure its not just a 'free' 80k.

Ps-The dropout rate at berkley and ALL audio schools is high because people don't know what they're getting into. They join for the 'kanye' reason I mentioned above, then quit for the same reason I mentioned above. You don't go to become 'kanye'. You are going to become the dude who makes kanye sound like kanye, and nobody knows his name. Nobody cares what his name is. Honestly, most people don't even know he has a job haha

Livinglegend got a point. Most of those threads are usually, "baaah, you don't need to go to no school to learn nuthin. I didn't go to school so why should you?" Mainly, "how dare you decide to go to school to learn something I spent thousands of dollars and wasted hours of pointless trial and error to do? Y U No use Youtube?"

Pumpthrust thank you for understanding, half the information, maybe even most comes from people who never took a day of the classes. While I already know these classes won't make me the next Kanye West I do expect to pick up a lot of fundamentals which will only better my craft. I guess since there are no replies from people on the subject that we can confirm that the other 1000 posts on this subject were made by sheeps being hearded into an opinion without even having factual information. I am just going to take the dive and try it, I will update the board as well as anyone else who wants info on the subject. As for now just deciding whether berklee or fullsail, both around the same price which will be covered by the government. Berklees classes are longer which could be good or bad. Fullsail gives you a new laptop and other things which could be beneficial. So as of right now I will be starting in September, just a matter of where.

Yah 99% of people who talk about this don't know wtf they're talking about.

 

[livinlegend]

Forums weren't letting me reply for some reason



'Structured learning' doesnt have to cost you 80 grand though. The way I look at school (for audio) is just as another platform for learning. They can set a really good foundation for you but regardless of how expensive/prestigious the school is; the bottom line is that if you don't take what you learn there and expand and learn more on your own time you will be downright f*&%ed. Any 'reputable' school between 20-80k(although keep in mind even some over 20K are garbage) is going to lay enough of a foundation down for you to learn enough on your own time.
The best thing about Berklee(i think this is true) is that they teach you everything on hardware first before you learn anything on software. Which, after using both, I agree would make learning software way easier if you were to do hardware first. But this is what you are paying for. My school is 60 THOUSAND dollars less than Berklee and I love it. We only have 1 actual studio HARDWARE class a week, but classes are small and we can book as much extra studio time/sit on on sessions as we want so technically our studio access is still 24/7.

Another thing I need to point out is that you said "and I know going to school isn't going to make me the next Kanye or anything" this right here is a red flag for me. The fact you are even associating audio engineering school with what kanye does hints to me that you don't really know what you're getting yourself into. I see sooooooo many guys join engineering school because they want to make music or be a rapper. Sure you learn aspects of producing, but you are going to be an engineer. EXPECT to do a lot of editing, digital signal processing, etc- stuff that you haven't even thought of before or would have never even began or thought to start learning on your own because you would have never thought it to be relevant to what YOU want to do. Don't just realize that school won't turn you into next Kanye, UNDERSTAND that that's NOT what school is even for and if thats solely what you want you ARE taking the wrong and too expensive path. You will essentially be paying 80 grand to learn how to process your own songs which honestly isn't really gonna get you anywhere unless you already had some sort of prodigy rapping/producing ability.

With all that being said, as long as you KNOW why you are going (the reality of why, not the why YOU want to go) and you are going to commit to being an engineer, NOT a producer (at first anyway) then you won't regret it assuming money is no issue. But I have a feeling you don't really understand what you're gonna be going to school for.

And one more thing, I'm Pro School for engineering because although 80% of the studying is done on your own, like I've already mentioned here, school is great for teaching you WHAT to study on your own and setting a foundation. If I wasn't introduced to all this stuff by school I would have been completely lost and wouldnt have known what to study in the first place. Sure I could have lurked online and figured it all out through random discoveries over a couple years or so. Instead I was able to get a grasp on the basics (so far, only one semester in) in less than 3 months. We just finished our "mixing, Software, in the box" semester and now we are moving on to more hardware recording next semester.

Bottom line in my opinion is that school is only a foundation, they aren't gonna teach you everything there is to know because thats impossible in the time you're there. Most of the learning will and HAS TO BE done on your own. So, considering that I would NOT pay 80 grand to goto school for audio because a 20 thousand dollar school(a good 20k one!, research is up to you not me, I did my research on canadian schools not american) is going to set you on the same path as an 80 thousand dollar school. In the end how far you go is 100% up to you, but choosing Berklee just throws an addition 60 thousand bucks on something that essentially you are going to be doing all the work for.

The connections/discussions/foundation are WHY you goto school for audio. I personally believe the cost of your school doesnt matter as long as they know what they're talking about. How much you learn is up to you not how good your school is. I know the governments paying and everything but I'm
Canadian and have no idea what you're talking about with GI so I'm just treating it as money regardless of who's paying. Im sure its not just a 'free' 80k.

Ps-The dropout rate at berkley and ALL audio schools is high because people don't know what they're getting into. They join for the 'kanye' reason I mentioned above, then quit for the same reason I mentioned above. You don't go to become 'kanye'. You are going to become the dude who makes kanye sound like kanye, and nobody knows his name. Nobody cares what his name is. Honestly, most people don't even know he has a job haha





Yah 99% of people who talk about this don't know wtf they're talking about.

Yumid, I agree with everything you said, I guess I am more interested in the production than the audio engineering. The GI bill is pretty much free money. You get it for serving in the military. It covers 48 months of tuition at any accredited school in the world basically.

 

[Yumid]

Yumid, I agree with everything you said, I guess I am more interested in the production than the audio engineering. The GI bill is pretty much free money. You get it for serving in the military. It covers 48 months of tuition at any accredited school in the world basically.

Dont get me wrong, they will still teach you things you can apply to producing down the road. They will def teach you some music theory and song writing im assuming, considering mine does. But like everything else you will have to study more on that on your own. Everything you learn can some way or the other be used to produce better. But if you go in wanting to instantly be a better producer it wont work like that.

You should also learn some sort of instrument if you want to be a good producer. You dont have too, but it will help a ton. If you do end up going to school youre first focus would have to be becoming a good engineer first then a good producer later. Because you're strategy is to apply everything you learn to being a versatile producer that can engineer his own stuff. Its just important that while youre in school you focus on being an engineer first and a producer later when you're out of school. Plenty of time to learn how to produce later and if you can engineer that much better it will make producing that much easier.

 

[Indecent]

I am looking at taking some some courses in the near future. I have always pondered the idea but wasn't to fond of paying for it. I found out that some universites offer these courses and I can use my GI Bill to cover the tuition. Anyone have experience with these. As of right now the only credible ones I found so far seem to be Berkley. Are there any other alternatives to this? Also looking at the cirriculum, FL studio is not covered in any of the classes. I see PT, Reason, and Logic, knowing this information, would now be a good time to get a new DAW?

I went to SAE in los angeles. They took my G.I bill and there was another soldier at my school when I was there too. They have a good program and good connections for jobs.Hit me up if you wanna know more.