Raw, Hard Bass - I need a 20" subwoofer.

**bennyboyph** · 07-19-2001

Some of you guys are gonna either laugh or pass out at this. I need to find somewhere, or someone who can sell me 20" subwoofers, or just the drivers. When play my records, I want the crowd to feel it, I want their ribs to feel like they're caving in! They don't need drugs to feel the music, they need the big stomach crunching, hard hitting, body hurting basslines!
In England, and over in America, when ever I DJ the sound systems are frankly, a load of crap. I put the first record on and every single time I am disappointed. WHERE IS THE BASS? I had not felt real bass until I saw Dillinja down at Fabric with his home made system, in London, a couple of weeks ago. I have to recreate that!

**Alex TC** · 07-19-2001

No laugh but... did you see "Back To The Future" part I???

Now serious, ain't a good pair of 18" subs for stack enough of a punch? Get a bass enhancer from Behringer or Alesis or other brand and couple it w/ a nice, fat D.A.S. PA system and a good stack of 18 inchers and you should get more punch than a Tyson's opponent... or else come to Brazil and I'll show you a club where the bass is so hard that even the trees dance to the music...

**Dj Thy** · 07-19-2001

Indeed, I'd recommend 18" or double 18" subwoofers.
When designed right, that will deliver enough. Be sure only to go for pro brands, as more budget oriented brands won't hold up to their promises (good brands of drivers are Beyma, Eminence Omega/Kappa, Zomax, JBL, Fane, Ohm...). Personally the best I've heard were Zomax speakers. The loudest were Ohm Smakstaks before they downgraded them (144 dB SPL max someone?).
Put a decent crossover on it, and a good amplifier and the bass will be kicking.

Be aware that the quality of the bass is more important than the quantity. Many dj's and clubs tend to drown the music in a fuzzy (read : worthless) bass. It's better to have short hard kicks, than boomy resonant ones (and that even applies for d&b). And that's only something you will achieve with quality speakers. Mostly touring cabinets, and those are not among the cheapest.

Here's an apetizer

, this guy made his own speakers (2 18" woofers, and 2 15" with horn for the medium/high tones). Shown in a video. And notice what he uses the speakers for!
http://www.fcosinus.com/Dostech/sono/video.html

As for BIG boomers... I think Clarion is the winner. Their biggest boomer, the SRW8000 has a diameter of ... 80 cm (=31.5"). Now that must pack some punch huh. But the funniest part : it's a car audio subwoofer.

**Alex TC** · 07-19-2001

Hey Thy, correct me if I'm wrong but all (not all but most, even from good brands) 20" drivers I've seen and heard tend to burn easily, they start to wah-wah then... bzzzzzz. A friend who's a sound engineer said they also take too much power to function properlly but don't deliver accordingly or at least proportionally when put against a good 18 incher. I know from experience that a well desigend and built cabinet, a good and powerfull, integrated PA system installed properlly works wonders. And I agree w/ you, when it comes to sound the quality is more important than the quantity.

**five.pence** · 07-20-2001

Originally posted by Alex TC
...when it comes to sound the quality is more important than the quantity.

Damn Straight!!

It really pisses me off when you get people with huge f*ck off systems that think its the bolox when for the same price you can get smaller better quality systems that tear the huge ones appart.

Especially in clubs, when i was about 16, i used to go to this well cheesy club near where i lived and their system was utter sh!t, the thig was, they actually believed it was amazing!! The amount of times i thought my ears had burst cos of the appaling set up!!!

**Alex TC** · 07-20-2001

True, that's more common than the opposite. SOme clubs open and tout their soundsystems like "the next best thing since...", that is costed a zilion dolars and that it's the most powerfull ss ever, but they just connect the stuff and do some basic setup and the sound just plain sucks - and no one knows why! On the other hand, some places have extremelly simple systems that sound like a choir of angels singing together

**bennyboyph** · 07-21-2001

Originally posted by five.pence

Damn Straight!!

It really pisses me off when you get people with huge f*ck off systems that think its the bolox when for the same price you can get smaller better quality systems that tear the huge ones appart.

Especially in clubs, when i was about 16, i used to go to this well cheesy club near where i lived and their system was utter sh!t, the thig was, they actually believed it was amazing!! The amount of times i thought my ears had burst cos of the appaling set up!!!

I tell you, if you were at Fabric a couple of weeks back when Dillinja took his system down there, you wouldn't be saying that. The sound quality was excellent, and basically, I haven't felt bass like that before, and it hurt me!
I agree that many of the "cheesy" clubs do have crap systems, and have mad cigarette smoking, alcoholics who think that they are sound engineers, and just rack up the amps so that they produce the biggest noise possible. I really don't want to be doing that! Plus I sort of think that my 'A' level physics will help me along the way in the speaker design. I just want to build a really different system.

**Dj Thy** · 07-21-2001

Originally posted by Alex TC
Hey Thy, correct me if I'm wrong but all (not all but most, even from good brands) 20" drivers I've seen and heard tend to burn easily, they start to wah-wah then... bzzzzzz. A friend who's a sound engineer said they also take too much power to function properlly but don't deliver accordingly or at least proportionally when put against a good 18 incher. I know from experience that a well desigend and built cabinet, a good and powerfull, integrated PA system installed properlly works wonders. And I agree w/ you, when it comes to sound the quality is more important than the quantity.

Well that depends. Normally if it's from a good brand, it shouldn't give any problems, unless there has been a major f***up in the construction (bad filtering and wrong amp power mainly). But it happends way more easily with noname boomers, because most of the time they give wrong specs.

You know, there's a lot that comes in consideration with speakers, and the bigger they get, the more attention you need to pay about it.

For example the difference between mechanical and temperature stress.
First of all, a speaker can only have so much elongation before it breaks (mainly the spider that dies

).
For example a Beyma 15G450/N can have a maximum elongation of about 13 mm. It can take peak elongations over that, but if it sustains a elongation over 13 for a certain period, it'll definately break. Let's assume if you pump 300 W in this speaker. For this speaker unit, you'll have an Xmax (positive/negative elongation=elongation/2) of 6.5 mm at about 35 Hz. So if you want to use this speaker at 300 W, you'll need to filter off all lower frequencies.
Second misconception. Let's say you want to still 300W in this unit, but high frequencies (3kHz let's assume that). Well let me put it this way : BOOM! *silence*. Why? The speaker will still have 300 W to handle, but it's mainly the low frequencies that will make the mobile part move, hence cool down the boomer. At 300 W @ 3 kHz, the coil will heat up with no ventilation. No sound distortion, but the hardware will deteriorate very fast.
Also, you may be surprised, but it's perfectly possible to make such a speaker (it's a 15") distort with a 40 W amp (that doesn't distort itself). Just try to go as low as 20 Hz (infrabass) and you'll see the speaker will have a huge elongation (more that 13mm).
But probably the most misunderstood thing is the impedance.
A speaker is never completely 8 or 4 or whatever ohm. The impedance depends on the frequency. So depending on the frequencies you'll mainly use (sub, medium, ...) you'll have to check if the amp can take it.

There's A LOT to take in consideration (even the maximum air speed in the bass reflex tubes

) to make good speakers. And even perfectly built speakers can be easily destroyed if you don't think clearly when misused...