Is the turntable an instrument ?

to MACKone,

I saw that article before, but I still dont think is the same thing....there are ways to write down your compositions on paper, but all reagular melodic instrument follows (in a way or another) the same note structure (I´m having a hard time trying to explain it because of my english..), and therefore, any piano composition, for instance, can be visually translated to a guitar, a flute, or wathever, because they all follow the same note structure......with a turntable u can achieve a melody and translate it to notation, but not instantly neither visually...or at least I never heard of it...like, is not possible to get a piano partiture and follow it with a turntable...I still have the opinion of turntables, when used in turntablism, being a percussive instrument...
 
but the turntable can be a melodic instrument also, I don't think notation really has much to do with what the instrument is, if it plays melody, then why is it only a perscussive instrument?

i'm sure there are many east indian instruments and non-westernized ones that play melody but do not have notation, or do not have the same notation as piano's/guitars, and their music may not be able to be played on those instruments, but it doesn't make them any less of an instrument, not all instruments follow exact notes and chords etc. that many traditional insturments do, and I don't think you can compare or apply the turntable to them so much, especially due to how relatively new it is

the theories do not make the instrument, the instrument makes the theories, it is likely possible to make pitches and melodies on the turntable that cannot be made on the regular piano or guitar due it's constant range of pitch

i don't think it is possible to give the turntable such a specific label as 'percussive instrument' when it is in a constant state of change, it is not like traditional instruments where they are no longer really evolving, and the technology is essentially staying the same, the turntable is going through complete changes, and one turntable to the next can be completely different, it's far too diverse and full of possibilities to be classified at the moment

btw, have you heard scetchbook and phatazmagorea?

pz!
 
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Neokinetik said:
but the turntable can be a melodic instrument also, I don't think notation really has much to do with what the instrument is, if it plays melody, then why is it only a perscussive instrument?


It's Percussive as you can only notate, properly, only the rhythm, not the actual pitch (as it will vary from sample to sample and will be impossible to recreate... like a singers score). Thats probably why a graphics score is more suited for the job as it gives you an "idea" of what to play pitch and rhythmically wise.



i'm sure there are many east indian instruments and non-westernized ones that play melody but do not have notation, or do not have the same notation as piano's/guitars, and their music may not be able to be played on those instruments, but it doesn't make them any less of an instrument, not all instruments follow exact notes and chords etc. that many traditional insturments do, and I don't think you can compare or apply the turntable to them so much, especially due to how relatively new it is

the theories do not make the instrument, the instrument makes the theories, it is likely possible to make pitches and melodies on the turntable that cannot be made on the regular piano or guitar due it's constant range of pitch


Non-western instruments can be notated, but they're generally really dodgy as they play like double or triple sharp/flat notes, try transposing that to piano.. phew.

A turntabe only has a constant range of pitch when it is "playing" something, not manipulating something, hence it not being able to have any actual, notatable pitch range because it varies. You're not going to be hitting C then to E perfectly each time! And a turntable isn't a tuned instrument either, meaning the possiblities of being able to be notate what you've just played are thin. Otherwise i would sit my grade 8 turntable exam and show them some scales and play those stupid pieces they give you to learn... ohh and lets not forget sight reading here... although, i think it's possible to sight read a graphic score to use on a turntable!!!


i don't think it is possible to give the turntable such a specific label as 'percussive instrument' when it is in a constant state of change, it is not like traditional instruments where they are no longer really evolving, and the technology is essentially staying the same, the turntable is going through complete changes, and one turntable to the next can be completely different, it's far too diverse and full of possibilities to be classified at the moment

btw, have you heard scetchbook and phatazmagorea?

pz!

not i haven't, but i'll be sure to check it out as soon as i've watched the Family Guy movie. Are these guys artist/groups/bands or are they the actual song?
 
Exaclty,
I agree with cribble...

Neokinetik
btw, have you heard scetchbook and phatazmagorea?

yes, I heard most of the latest scratch albuns, and I really like them...but still they are mostly based on rythm, the only melody the turntables actually plays are only pre-recorded instruments (like a bass-line) that they scratch a bit to give it more rythm...and that´s it...the rest is scratching over hip-hop oriented beats...but it´s amazing it´s versatility, I agree with that...I never heard a music made only by drummers and liked it so much...:]] (although that would be each one´s personal preferences..)...

Neokinetik
it is not like traditional instruments where they are no longer really evolving, and the technology is essentially staying the same, the turntable is going through complete changes, and one turntable to the next can be completely different, it's far too diverse and full of possibilities to be classified at the moment

Now I strongly disagree with that...music is constantly evolving...synthesizers are one of the best examples (an instrument that can achieve virtually any sound you imagine), new genres are constantly appearing...and I´m not only talking about electronic music, but in all genres...turntablism is only a part of it...I never agreed with people that don´t consider a turntablist a musician, but I would never ever say turntablism is the new step in music..as there are no steps...music is really subjective...it all comes down to personnal preferences...
 
yo marcelo, i'm not saying that it's the new step in music, what i was trying to say was like, in 5-10 years, it's quite possible that the turntable will be a completely different instrument, vinyl may not be used anymore, all of the options and adaptability of it will be way crazier, the mixer might even be completely different, when you think about it, the mixer isn't the only controller you can use to modify the turntable's sounds, and they could even add a complex/accurate pitch system, but the guitar in 5-10 years will likely be roughly the same as it is now, because it has been around so far, so the evolutions are slowing, i'm just saying that the rate of change in turntables is so fast that you can't give it a label, and i know for a fact there are lots of people out there that are using different techniques for making melodies, that it is not fair to say that it is a percussive instrument, because their could very well be people who can play and notate their melodies

cribble, I bet I can play a C and E perfectly each time on the turntable, no i can't play any beethoven or ridiculous stuff like that, but i know i can play anything reasonable when i put my mind to it and try, like, it's pretty hard to base such an opinion when it seems you haven't even heard the primary 'musical' artists in turntablism, there is a whole other side to turntablism other than battle dj's and hip-hop, though hip-hop is still the main influence, there is a lot of jazz influence also, which is a relatively improvisational, non-notated music style

btw, scetchbook and phantazmagorea are two of the more popular 'musical' turntablism albums scetchbook by ricci rucker/mike boo, and phataz by d-styles

also, everyone check dj teeko and say that this isn't melodic... he's jamming live freestyle with a band called 'alphabet soup' pure sickness:

http://www.4onefunk.com/real/BandJammin.rm

pz!
 
vestax1.bmp



Its all about to change.
 
Its progress man...thats a prototype table that Ricci Rucker was using...
 
Though Mack one is right, this could be the standard table being used in 10-15 years time. Just wait till all the faults are ironed out over time...

--Bomber
 
dsuh said:


ridiculous... thats never going to work.

No, I think this will. At first, I think this will be one of those "for the advanced DJ" type of things. Like, I wont blow away a grand on one if I dont really know what to do with it. BUT - someone like DJ Woody could really craft some nice sounds on it, aswell as many other Top DJs. So eventually the price will slowly drop the more DJs buy it, opening up the posability for not so experianced Djs to have a go, to see what they can do, and try to to do what the top Djs can do...
Okay, maybe this s a bit far fetched, after all, it IS vestax :)

--Bomber
 
definately is progress... but i don't really think it's practical, like it'll open up some possibilities, but I don't really think it deserves to be anymore than an upgrade of the turntable, I hear it has a $2000 price tag... I think maybe a couple hundred more than a normal deck is suitable...

like think about it, it's just an advanced version of the pitch slider/rpm buttons that we already have, and sure they're neat, but they only have a limited amount of use, other than with tones, and long samples, there's little use, the pitch only affects the release, not your actual scratching, which like... it's neat and all, but I don't think it'll make us do anything much more advanced than what we already can... because most people don't use the pitch controls anyway...

it's neat, but dsuh's right, they're making custom records for it, because it'll only work properly with them, because it needs a C note and a long tone for the most part...

it'll work, it'll do what it's supposed to, but that's it, I think when it's actually used, it won't be as crazy as what ruck's making it out to be... but I think it's neat nonetheless... but I dunno, I think there are superior alternatives... actually I know there are...

it'll be a cool addition, but I think it'll sort of shape up to be similar to a whammy bar for a guitar... cool for effect, but it's not the be all and end all, and some ppl will probably use it as a crutch...

pz!
 
yes a turntable is an instrument. anything that plays a sound is an instrument.


Wrong. By that logic, a T.V. would be considered an instrument(and clearly is not) Just look at the definition of Disk Jockey: Jockey's verb definition is to maneuver or steer. Turn tables are nothing but tools that can play and manipulate music.
 
>>>>yes a turntable is an instrument. anything that plays a sound is an instrument.<<<<

Yes, see above ^^^^ That is an absolutely incorrect proposition; however, the turntable is definitely an instrument-- ever since Grandmaster Flash and his contemporaries. They have even written a concerto for turntable and orchestra, at this point.

[Sorry, this is a long thread that I just noticed, so maybe someone covered this ground already. But the long and the short of it is A) it wasn't an instrument, and B) Now it is!]...

GJ
 
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