Is the turntable an instrument ?

(Sigh)
WEll it looks like you really don't know the first thing about turntablism do ya? This is how it works.
Say, you play the first note. then, you play the second one, just by letting the record go. If you wanted to go back to the first note again, you use the bloody MIXER to cut the sound, you pull the record back to the start of the first note, you then open the x-fader, then you let go of the record!!! I know, you may find this a crazy concept at first, because they have only been doing this for THE LAST 10 YEARS!!!

--Bomber...
 
dsuh said:



think about it...... It doesn't make sense.. you would have to jump the needle everytime you want to play a different chord..
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Dude go check out a movie called Scratch down at blockbuster or where ever you rent movies. They do pick up the needle and and move it around and stuff. Anyways before you discredit yourself anymore just check out the movie it speaks for itself. And thats just a small segment...it may teach you so much more and then you might start making sence.
 
ok....is a tamberine an instrument? If u say yes, then you are correct; thus the turntable is equal of the same understanding. THe Turntable is a percussion instrument because its a percussive instrument. The ****ing spoons are an instrument IMO. aight
 
for anyone who says a tt isn't an instrument, i can only assume you're talking about when YOU are using it.
 
dwgmatix said:
for anyone who says a tt isn't an instrument, i can only assume you're talking about when YOU are using it.
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Hahaha, yeah, exactly, good point :)

--Bomber
 
BomberMan said:
(Sigh)
WEll it looks like you really don't know the first thing about turntablism do ya? This is how it works.
Say, you play the first note. then, you play the second one, just by letting the record go. If you wanted to go back to the first note again, you use the bloody MIXER to cut the sound, you pull the record back to the start of the first note, you then open the x-fader, then you let go of the record!!! I know, you may find this a crazy concept at first, because they have only been doing this for THE LAST 10 YEARS!!!

--Bomber...
Click to expand...


..............

How do you go from A chord to G chord then to C... E..... without pauses inbetween.....yah.. it's not possible....
 
encee said:


Dude go check out a movie called Scratch down at blockbuster or where ever you rent movies. They do pick up the needle and and move it around and stuff. Anyways before you discredit yourself anymore just check out the movie it speaks for itself. And thats just a small segment...it may teach you so much more and then you might start making sence.
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yah I watched it 2 years ago. Good movie, but they don't play around with chords.. I know thats for sure
 
dsuh said:


yah I watched it 2 years ago. Good movie, but they don't play around with chords.. I know thats for sure
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Ummmmm yes they do. There is a guy in the video who pressed a vinyl with guitar cords on it all broken up. There were these three dudes who created a band by using this dudes vinyl. The would pick up the needle and then place it on a cord then pick it up and move it to play another cord. They like did it together and it sounded wayyyy good. The movie is practically justifies that the turntable is in fact an instrument. Your trippin. I think you might need to rent it agian before you go out saying its for sure. There was a whole segment about it.
 
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Instrument- A device for playing or producing music: a keyboard instrument.

yea, i make music with the turntable.

and dsuh, you can play notes and chords on the turntable, there are many different ways, from adjusting speed, finding the right samples/records

why is a keyboard any more of an instrument than a turntable? a keyboard is just a bunch of recordings of each note on each key, but if you made a record with all of the notes on it (which there are), then it's essentially the same thing, though you may not be as fast or smooth, but not every instrument is as fast or smooth at hitting different notes as others, but they all have a unique sound, and their upsides and downsides

aaaalllssssooooo, dsuh, you really don't know what you're talking about by turntables not being able to play notes/chords/etc., there are many technologies out there that exist, and are being developed in order to play them, just because you haven't used or looked into them, doesn't mean it's impossible, it means that you're limiting yourself, ricci rucker and d-styles are developings a specifc turntable/mixer combo for playing melodies, there is also other technology that exists that you can play melodies with as fast and accurate as a piano or guitar (though not as much range of notes at the moment), buuut, i can't really bring it up... due to personal project reasons :P


but yea, turntable's an instrument by the above defintion, like you can argue that it's not because you can do other stuff with it, but even if a few used a guitar as a table, is it not still an instrument?

like, anything's an instrument if you use it to make music, this isn't really a valid question, because you could substitute turntable with anything and eventually justify it as long as people make music with it, like the turntable isn't an instrument in every case, but it's definately an instrument in many cases.

i don't really see how you can tell yourself that it's not an instrument, when you're heard music made with it, and people in bands use it as an instrument, unless you haven't, then i don't see what you're expressing your uneducated opinion

pz!
 
Neokinetik said:
Instrument- A device for playing or producing music: a keyboard instrument.

yea, i make music with the turntable.

and dsuh, you can play notes and chords on the turntable, there are many different ways, from adjusting speed, finding the right samples/records

why is a keyboard any more of an instrument than a turntable? a keyboard is just a bunch of recordings of each note on each key, but if you made a record with all of the notes on it (which there are), then it's essentially the same thing, though you may not be as fast or smooth, but not every instrument is as fast or smooth at hitting different notes as others, but they all have a unique sound, and their upsides and downsides

aaaalllssssooooo, dsuh, you really don't know what you're talking about by turntables not being able to play notes/chords/etc., there are many technologies out there that exist, and are being developed in order to play them, just because you haven't used or looked into them, doesn't mean it's impossible, it means that you're limiting yourself, ricci rucker and d-styles are developings a specifc turntable/mixer combo for playing melodies, there is also other technology that exists that you can play melodies with as fast and accurate as a piano or guitar (though not as much range of notes at the moment), buuut, i can't really bring it up... due to personal project reasons :P


but yea, turntable's an instrument by the above defintion, like you can argue that it's not because you can do other stuff with it, but even if a few used a guitar as a table, is it not still an instrument?

like, anything's an instrument if you use it to make music, this isn't really a valid question, because you could substitute turntable with anything and eventually justify it as long as people make music with it, like the turntable isn't an instrument in every case, but it's definately an instrument in many cases.

i don't really see how you can tell yourself that it's not an instrument, when you're heard music made with it, and people in bands use it as an instrument, unless you haven't, then i don't see what you're expressing your uneducated opinion

pz!
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Totally agree
 
I´m a turntablist and a piano player(classical)...I tought a lot about this before, and I kind of agree with both sides....the thing is that to be a turntablist you don´t need any real musical theory like in any other melodic musical instrument( altought you do need lots of skills, and of course years of practice to get it properly..myself I´m still a lot better in the piano then in turntables, only been spinning for 2 years)...I mean, u don´t have specific scales, notes, or wathever...I know there are lots of talented djs out there creating alternative ways of achiving a melodic aproach to turntables, but still isn´t the same thing at all...because of the simple fact that u can still only "hit" one note at a time, and because you will never have the versatility of going from one note to another as fast as in a regular instrument...but someone mentioned percussive instruments, and that´s exactly what a turntable is...a percussive instrument..like drums...and I think more and more "real" musicians are getting interested in this art form, and there will be lots of new things coming up for sure (they are even teaching turntablism now in universities, like in Berklee)...maybe in a couple of years will be a standart theory for tuntables, who knows...and I was wondering...I´m a complete newbie when it comes to guitars, but I do have a couple of friends that plays, and one of them had this effect pedal that could switch the octaves of what he was playing. I was wondering if there is any pedal that can switch notes, instead of octaves?? now that would be amazing, being able to switch notes(performing melodies) while keeping your hands busy scratching normally....
 
Marcelo Song said:
the thing is that to be a turntablist you don´t need any real musical theory like in any other melodic musical instrument( altought you do need lots of skills, and of course years of practice to get it properly..myself I´m still a lot better in the piano then in turntables, only been spinning for 2 years)...I mean, u don´t have specific scales, notes, or wathever...I know there are lots of talented djs out there creating alternative ways of achiving a melodic aproach to turntables, but still isn´t the same thing at all...because of the simple fact that u can still only "hit" one note at a time, and because you will never have the versatility of going from one note to another as fast as in a regular instrument...
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you don't NEED musical theory with any instrument, almost every guitarist I know can not read music, and has taken little to no lessons, mainly self-taught, and there is much musical theory in turntablism whether you choose to apply it or not, like, i've been looking into many jazz concepts such as phrasing, and different drumming rhythms such as paradiddles (spelling is probably totally off), different timing's such as 3/4 and 5/4, so to say that there isn't musical theory to it is naive, just playing an instrument takes a certain degree of natural understanding of musical theory, even if it's just having 'a good ear'

also, I'm fairly confident from playing with bands that if when I work it out, I can play most melodies of songs on my turntable using different methods, and hit them just as fast as the guitarists can, I've also been using a cd for beginner's suzuki method piano training (from when I took piano lessons) and copying the melodies in it to strengthen my melodic ability on the turntables, which at the moment isn't excellent, but it definately does the job

to make judgements about the limitations of the turntable is to say that you know everything about the turntable, and you have explored all of it's limits, which I know most haven't, including myself, so I can't really see even arguing that the turntable isn't an instrument without questioning the possibility of every traditional instrument not being an instrument, like i said, if you use a piano as a table, or a guitar as a canoe paddle, or a turntable as a music player, then all of them are no longer instruments

lol, as you guys can tell, I feel kinda strongly about the turntable being an instrument, I also have an average amount of knowledge about music and theory, so i'm not just making stuff up, but the thing that gets me most angry is when people question me as being a true musician, and doubt my abilities, and when people doubt my instrument, then it is doubting me as a musician, if you have any doubt that the turntable is an instrument, then it's likely your lack of understanding and knowledge about it, I bet most of the doubters haven't even heard D-Styles' Phantazmagorea, or Ricci Rucker and Mike Boo's Scetchbook, or even DJ Qbert's Wavetwisters, all entire albums done in different styles, but all done with pure scratching, now listen to everything on all of those albums and then try to doubt the turntable as being an instrument

pz!
 
Good topic and a good arguement.

I think "Djing" isn't musical what-so-ever. You're just changing CD's/Mp3's/Records and mixing them at the same tempo (hopefully). There's a skill involved, but not really any musical skill.

Although, i think "turntablism" is musical because you're playing a note, cutting, effectivly ending the note, coming back to the spot and playing the note, but progressing through a bar as it were. And the variations such as triplets, vabrato, tremelo even, all can be done. It's kind of like percusion, percusion doesn't make chords, but they play notes, and it can be notated.

And turntablism can be notated. There's a few ways, you just write out a rhythm score consisting of the pattern/bars/notes etc or you can do a graphic score... which is alot easier as you can make it more accurate. Because it's notatable, its makes it an instrument, hence being able to create music on it. Musician worthy.

Mixing is gash and is not musical because you're not creating anything plus it doesn't make you a musician just because you can mix records together. Fool's play. Although i'm abit confuse about beat juggling...

...but then again we need these mixing DJ's to get the word out to all the kids whats "hot" on the block... and don't do drugs and drop out etc etc.


Well lets hope all of you pass your grade 8 turntablist exam. Don't forget to learn your scales...haha...hahaha
 
I cant believe people are still talking about this, as its clearly an instrument no doubt about it, you just have to see it as one.

DJ Radar a dj who djs in a orchestra, yes an orchestra is in it because, scratches can be notated, and notes can be made from adjusting pitch n whatever else. Composers are learning to conduct djs in orchestras because its becoming more popular, as a 'modern' instrument.

but a turntable is an instrument, just old school people dont see it as one, as its relatively knew compared to guitar or piano.

Will
 
to Neokinetik,
I see your point, and I would never say that a turntablist is no musician, and yes, a guitarist is an example of someone with no knowledge on music theory in general...but still, any guitar solo can be written on paper, and that´s my point....turntablism is still a recent art form and Im sure there will be, eventually, a way to learn it trought musical theory, but the truth is that you still can´t...like you said you´ve been training with different types of melodies to get the scratching properly with it, in a melodic way, and it can be done, I agree with that, but not instantly getting the right "notes" as the melody goes...as natural as a piano player reading the partiture, or the guitarist that memorized scales( even if self-trained)..you can still flow naturally when scratching, but because of its rythm, what in my opinion makes it a percussive instrument, no STILL a melodic one...hope you get my point..and sorry about my english..:]]
 
Marcelo Song said:
to Neokinetik,
I see your point, and I would never say that a turntablist is no musician, and yes, a guitarist is an example of someone with no knowledge on music theory in general...but still, any guitar solo can be written on paper, and that´s my point....turntablism is still a recent art form and Im sure there will be, eventually, a way to learn it trought musical theory, but the truth is that you still can´t...like you said you´ve been training with different types of melodies to get the scratching properly with it, in a melodic way, and it can be done, I agree with that, but not instantly getting the right "notes" as the melody goes...as natural as a piano player reading the partiture, or the guitarist that memorized scales( even if self-trained)..you can still flow naturally when scratching, but because of its rythm, what in my opinion makes it a percussive instrument, no STILL a melodic one...hope you get my point..and sorry about my english..:]]
Click to expand...

Its called SCRATCH NOTATION.

This is a GOOD READ folks. Don't sleep on this one.


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KYX/is_6_7/ai_n13789724
 
Yeah, scratch notation, or scratch transcription, thats a good example of being able to use the tables as an instrument. I think you can download an Adobe reader version of it for free at www.battlesounds.com .

--Bomber
 
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