Positive Hip-Hop

[benji2]

because they were very strict about carding teens at clubs in the 1920's....

Hip Hop is also one of the few mediums where a non black person will argue with a black person about Black History. I only speak on topic's I'm knowledgeable about. It's deeper than that. No adult wants to hang out with young inmature people. Try hanging with your younger brother and his friends.

 

[Nightshade]

Most of the Black Jazz musicians didnt have recording contracts so there wasnt a plethora of songs to play on the radio. Their bread and butter came from performing at nightclubs which a minor couldnt attend.

There were a lot of both black and white jazz musicians getting recorded.
Why do you think that music played in a club doesn't get out of the club at some point?

Each generation thinks they are so unique and inventive (I know we thought we were when I was growing up) but in reality everything we have done has been done by generations before us, the only thing that changes is the technology surrounding it.

In the 80's (pre-internet days) I was a big fan of punk rock. Most of it wasn't distributed because it was throwaway music the labels didn't want to touch. So how is it a kid from Sacramento still got ahold of tapes from Bad Brains without them ever having visited the West Coast at that point? Oh I know how...I knew a guy who had a cousin who lived in Tahoe, this cousin had friends in Vegas and Reno which saw a lot of tourism from places like NY, DC etc. and people would drop him tapes once in a while and he would copy them and pass them along which landed in my lap a lot of times and I would in turn have my friends over to check it out, copy them for them or just give them the tape as a gift.

Same way it has happened for many more years than I want to count.

 

[benji2]

There were a lot of both black and white jazz musicians getting recorded.

Not true for Black Musicians. Ken Burns the great documentarian from PBS has a 10 part series on Jazz. It documents the history of Jazz and shows how Black Jazz players caught so much hell, they'd go to Paris where they were treated better. They were initially outshined by white Big Bands and then when Jazz became mainstream they were replaced by white Jazz Musicians. There were a few notable exceptions who had recording contracts but it was far from the norm.

 

[Nightshade]

Not true for Black Musicians. Ken Burns the great documentarian from PBS has a 10 part series on Jazz. It documents the history of Jazz and shows how Black Jazz players caught so much hell, they'd go to Paris where they were treated better. They were initially outshined by white Big Bands and then when Jazz became mainstream they were replaced by white Jazz Musicians. There were a few notable exceptions who had recording contracts but it was far from the norm.

You are right there was a prejudice still holding strong and many did leave the states for France because that prejudice didn't exist (or to a much lesser degree). But there is a pretty wide variety of that period of both white and black jazz artists recorded.

So once again the race card is tossed into a subject it has little meaning in so I am out of this conversation. Peace out, it was fun for a bit.

 

[bandcoach]

Most of the Black Jazz musicians didnt have recording contracts so there wasnt a plethora of songs to play on the radio. Their bread and butter came from performing at nightclubs which a minor couldnt attend.

what years are you referring to - pre 1920 this might be true; post 1920 not true. There were even black radio stations - stations that had a specific market target/demographic and played the music for such audiences

Drug references in music have been around since the time of JS Bach and his Coffee Cantata.

Sexual references have a similar lineage.

Lyrically we have had drug and sexual references going back to the 1200's and these songs were sung for everyone.

Nursery rhymes are the biggest offenders - "Lavender blue dilly dilly, Lavender green dilly dilly - You shall be my King dilly dilly and I shall be your Queen" sung by a male

The Disturbing Origins of 5 Common Nursery Rhymes | Cracked.com

10 Nursery Rhymes with Dark Origins

The 15 Most Disturbing Nursery Rhymes You've Never Heard

 

[benji2]

what years are you referring to - pre 1920 this might be true post 1920 not true. There were even black radio stations - stations that had a specific market target/demographic and played the music for such audiences

Drug references in music have been around since the time of JS Bach and his Coffee Cantata.

Sexual references have a similar lineage.

Lyrically we have had drug and sexual references going back to the 1200's and these songs were sung for everyone.

Nursery rhymes are the biggest offenders - "Lavender blue dilly dilly, Lavender green dilly dilly - You shall be my King dilly dilly and I shall be your Queen" sung by a male

The Disturbing Origins of 5 Common Nursery Rhymes | Cracked.com

10 Nursery Rhymes with Dark Origins

The 15 Most Disturbing Nursery Rhymes You've Never Heard

Hilarious. Nursery rhymes, reference to the 13th century. I refuse to dispute Black History with because you obviously lack the fundamental knowledge about the topic.

 

[Nightshade]

Hilarious. Nursery rhymes, reference to the 13th century. I refuse to dispute Black History with because you obviously lack the fundamental knowledge about the topic.

This thread was never about black history until you brought it into the conversation because you can't back your shit up with facts so you play revisionist history and the race card all in one shot.

You can't argue at all and you do this in every thread you post on consistently. You seem to think that just because you are of a certain ethnicity that you have an inherent knowledge of a form of music, well hate to burst your bubble but just because you are black doesn't make you knowledgeable on hip hop automatically no more than just because you are white you know all things heavy metal. It is an ignorant person who throws the same straw man argument when he has nothing to add to the conversation.

You see before you came in we were sharing information back and forth regarding the negative influence on music, which became a discussion about violence and how it has shaped music and the culture as a whole. Violence has no color the same as music has no color, get the **** over yourself already.

 

[bandcoach]

Hilarious. Nursery rhymes, reference to the 13th century. I refuse to dispute Black History with because you obviously lack the fundamental knowledge about the topic.

strangely enough, it seems that you are the one lacking in the depth of background to debate this or you would have responded as to what years you were referring to - Armstrong and Oliver were recording in the early 1920's in Chicago and may have recorded prior to that in New Orleans. Robert Johnson was recording in the 1920's also

the nursery rhymes was simply to point out that folks have always sung about sex and drugs - the 13th century reference was to the meistersingers and the minstrels who roamed Europe spreading news via songs, so they would have tales of political intrigue, royal scandals and other sordid messages all told via song...

 

[Nightshade]

strangely enough, it seems that you are the one lacking in the depth of background to debate this or you would have responded as to what years you were referring to - Armstrong and Oliver were recording in the early 1920's in Chicago and may have recorded prior to that in New Orleans. Robert Johnson was recording in the 1920's also

the nursery rhymes was simply to point out that folks have always sung about sex and drugs - the 13th century reference was to the meistersingers and the minstrels who roamed Europe spreading news via songs, so they would have tales of political intrigue, royal scandals and other sordid messages all told via song...

Armstrong did start recording in Louisiana and then the recording company moved to Chicago, I can't remember the record company or it's owner but it was black owned if I remember right and catered almost exclusively to black artists if not exclusively.

 

[KelevraOne]

Hip Hop is also one of the few mediums where a non black person will argue with a black person about Black History. I only speak on topic's I'm knowledgeable about. It's deeper than that. No adult wants to hang out with young inmature people. Try hanging with your younger brother and his friends.

The irony is that I'm black also... So um yeah. You're arguing with a fellow black person about black history...

Also during this conversation you've shown yourself to lack knowledge in regards to the topics in songs throughout the years. Topics haven't changed much. Only thing that has changed is the language. At this point in time the language is much more abrasive and in your face as far as the topics of drugs and sex in songs, but it's always been there. Look up N.W.A. Ice T, Snoop Dogg, Wu Tang Clan, Dr. Dre, and compare them to A$AP Rocky, Wayne, Ross, Drake etc... They're still talking about ****ing, Drinking, Smoking and Pushing some sort of Drug. Just different languages. Add to the fact that you're older now so you see things now for what they are as opposed to the way most people view their past which is through rose colored glasses

 

[D-C]

I find it ridiculous that people say positive hip hop is gone in today's musical scene, because they are there. The reason why so little people listen to it is because their songs are plain boring and while they do have good messages people would rather listen to music and have it be entertaining, and since their songs usually don't have any kind of entertaining qualities to them they never get heard by the masses or played on radio. If they made it entertaining AND positive people would appreciate it for being fun to listen to as well as promoting positive messages; take example from what Kendrick Lamar did with Swimming Pools.

 

[benji2]

The irony is that I'm black also... So um yeah. You're arguing with a fellow black person about black history...

Also during this conversation you've shown yourself to lack knowledge in regards to the topics in songs throughout the years. Topics haven't changed much. Only thing that has changed is the language. At this point in time the language is much more abrasive and in your face as far as the topics of drugs and sex in songs, but it's always been there. Look up N.W.A. Ice T, Snoop Dogg, Wu Tang Clan, Dr. Dre, and compare them to A$AP Rocky, Wayne, Ross, Drake etc... They're still talking about ****ing, Drinking, Smoking and Pushing some sort of Drug. Just different languages. Add to the fact that you're older now so you see things now for what they are as opposed to the way most people view their past which is through rose colored glasses

My Hip Hop knowledge is vast. That's why I mention specific songs and ask you guys to do the same. List some titles of songs from a different era where hard core drug use is glorified and marketed to Kids in the form of radio friendly songs. Even AfroMan's song about getting high was only about weed and it wasnt in heavy rotation on the radio. Mellie Mel was a coke head but he made a song called White Lines that had a positive message. DMX- a crack head that tried to even talk about the Lord. Hardcore drug users have always existed including Hip Hop. I just dont recall artists making songs for the radio about it.

 

[KelevraOne]

My Hip Hop knowledge is vast. That's why I mention specific songs and ask you guys to do the same. List some titles of songs from a different era where hard core drug use is glorified and marketed to Kids in the form of radio friendly songs. Even AfroMan's song about getting high was only about weed and it wasnt in heavy rotation on the radio. Mellie Mel was a coke head but he made a song called White Lines that had a positive message. DMX- a crack head that tried to even talk about the Lord.

Gin and Juice, Good Times, Bout it Bout it, Purple Hills, Cream, In da Club, I could go on and on. All of these songs received heavy rotation on the radio in their own respective times. All have various drug references. All are 10+ years old. I heard all of these for the first time on the radio and loved them when I was a youngin. So I can't front like the music then wasn't negative. Arguably it was more negative then. Mid 90's til about 2008 gangsta rap was still in and for the most part extreme violence was glorified.

 

[benji2]

Gin and Juice, Good Times, Bout it Bout it, Purple Hills, Cream, In da Club, I could go on and on. All of these songs received heavy rotation on the radio in their own respective times. All have various drug references. All are 10+ years old. I heard all of these for the first time on the radio and loved them when I was a youngin. So I can't front like the music then wasn't negative. Arguably it was more negative then. Mid 90's til about 2008 gangsta rap was still in and for the most part extreme violence was glorified.

Gin and Juice promoted alcohol. In Cream, Raekwon mentioned that he smoked crack and weed and it made his eyes bleed. That's a honest raw account of his drug use. That's not glamorizing it making it seem cool. That's why he used the word bleed. The other two were valid arguments though. I stand corrected.

 

[Nightshade]

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five addresses both violence and drug use/sales in "The Message" circa 1982 and it got radio play at the time.

*edit* The references were used in a positive manner to show ill effects of them

 

[benji2]

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five addresses both violence and drug use/sales in "The Message" circa 1982 and it got radio play at the time.

*edit* The references were used in a positive manner to show ill effects of them

Mellie Mel had a coke problem but even he knew that would be irresponsible of him to make a song glamorizing it. Also Bambatta would never have approved it since he started the Zulu Nation and Hip Hop out of a need for positivity and reform. Grandmaster Flash fell victim to crack himself.

 

[Nightshade]

He had a coke problem himself but even he knew that would be irresponsible of him to make a song glamorizing it. Also Bambatta would never have approved it since he started the Zulu Nation and Hip Hop out of a need for positivity and reform.

Absolutely

So I was thinking about it and as far as radio play I will concede it is a lot more prevalent in current times to glorify drug use on air in hip-hop/rap music. I know there are more examples from back in the day but right now I would have to search lyrics and remind myself what was on the radio at that time so recent history is easier to remember in that respect.

I think part of it is that we have seen the bar creep slowly to be more permissive of such things and censors have relented to allow it to happen on air.

 

[Nightshade]

So one more thing to note...although drug references have become a lot more blatant and allowed, references to violence have declined at almost a 1 to 1 scale. In fact I can't think of the last song that directly referenced violence in some manner getting airplay.

 

[benji2]

Absolutely

I think part of it is that we have seen the bar creep slowly to be more permissive of such things and censors have relented to allow it to happen on air.

You nailed it. You're so right. I've had those wild nights myself where the music was so appropriate for the scene and I was far from a critic. Weed, vodka, a big booty and I caught myself singing along "I'm a beat the pu@@! up"

 

[mwandishi]

Don't forget about the Native Tongues crew-the 45 king, Queen,Jungle Bros., De La, Tribe, etc