Lets talk about Justin Bieber

[UpnComer]

If Bieber was some dorky bucktoothed pasty freckle faced obese bowl cut sporting red head kid with a lazy eye do you honestly think he would have been as popular and successful?.....I sure as shit don't, so the question I put to you is what percentage of his success do you think can be attributed to associative factors vs the music in and of itself?....

His success is all about his image, thats whats messed up, cuz it wasent with Michael Jackson. And Justin Beiber does not have swag...he was taught swag, ... he dont write his songs, he cant think of nothing original, ...hes really just a puppet.

 

[Cayden Carrell]

He's successful. Deal with it.

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

FPers are a funny bunch. Acting like everyone doesn't have a machine behind them. If a publicist or whoever didn't give "babyface" his name, no one would've recognized his baby face, name him "big tooth mcgee" and chicks would've been like "ewwww". If stevie wonder wasn't blind, he wouldn't have had the same impression on an audience. If Michael Jackson didn't DANCE, everything else he did would've been looked at differently. Picture "thriller" with no dance routine and tell me it still would've been as great as it was.

No one in entertainment comes with no gimmicks. The problem is, you guys have "personal vendettas" with JB for whatever reason. Everything you're saying negative about where his talent lies can be said of anyone else doing music. My issue is, by doing so, you all should take a look in the mirror and really think about your "job" as a producer. You're supposed to be part of the "machine" you downplay when talking about JB.

Quit acting like the guy can't hold a note, act good enough to make a cool vid, dance good enough for a routine, and entertain the f**k out of a large demographic that expands beyond little preteen girls no matter what you wish was true. All more than you can probably say about the guys who drop by your studio who you think you're gonna make into something. #Truestory

 

[mwandishi]

It's pop music get a grip.
Motown was big machine who packaged everyone.
Dianna didn't have the best voice, but she had the look.
The Jacksons were packaged, "let's get Dianna Ross to introduce little Michael to the world".
Steveland Morris = Stevie Wonder

JB has enough talent to get the job done, and more importantly, he has the look.
I didn't like nysync when they dropped, but I like JT now. I see JB following a similar path.

 

[hollandturbine]

FPers are a funny bunch. Acting like everyone doesn't have a machine behind them. If a publicist or whoever didn't give "babyface" his name, no one would've recognized his baby face, name him "big tooth mcgee" and chicks would've been like "ewwww". If stevie wonder wasn't blind, he wouldn't have had the same impression on an audience. If Michael Jackson didn't DANCE, everything else he did would've been looked at differently. Picture "thriller" with no dance routine and tell me it still would've been as great as it was.

No one in entertainment comes with no gimmicks. The problem is, you guys have "personal vendettas" with JB for whatever reason. Everything you're saying negative about where his talent lies can be said of anyone else doing music. My issue is, by doing so, you all should take a look in the mirror and really think about your "job" as a producer. You're supposed to be part of the "machine" you downplay when talking about JB.

Quit acting like the guy can't hold a note, act good enough to make a cool vid, dance good enough for a routine, and entertain the f**k out of a large demographic that expands beyond little preteen girls no matter what you wish was true. All more than you can probably say about the guys who drop by your studio who you think you're gonna make into something. #Truestory

That's right there is a distinct advantage to be gained when people have a tendency to associate non-musical attributes to music due to assosation or cognitive bias....the big question however is how much does an artist's success rely on cognitive bias?

I would argue that Stevie Wonder's blindness weighs less on the scale than Justin Bieber's attractiveness in relation to their respective success.....That Stevie Wonder's music is more capable of standing on it's own merits whereas Bieber's music is propped up way more by the cognitive bias of his fans.

When Bieber sings about wanting to be his audiences boyfriend it has an emotional appeal based upon the associative factor of his physical attractiveness...not exactly rocket science.

No one is arguing that Biber doesn't entertain his audience, just that his audience is more prone to being biased toward his music based on factors which have nothing to do with music and that your assumption that his success is driven primarily by his musical talent is therfore quite incorrect.

 

[Cayden Carrell]

...just that his audience is more prone to being biased toward his music based on factors which have nothing to do with music and that your assumption that his success is driven primarily by his musical talent is therfore quite incorrect.

If you ask them I take it they say the love his music. Nothing to do with music? Music/artist attraction is a whole to some degree or another.

 

[Renn]

In Poland, people hate him. Only 15 girls love his music. You know, in my country people hate other people which got money, and fame, only polish rap here got lovers

 

[hollandturbine]

If you ask them I take it they say the love his music. Nothing to do with music? Music/artist attraction is a whole to some degree or another.

Yeah they will say they love his music and I don't doubt their sincerity but you can't ask them without receiving an overwhelming response containing declarations about how good looking he is, so you can't discount that there is some degree of cognitive bias shaping their subjective opinion of Bieber's music......more importantly you can't really ask people if their opinions are based on the halo effect because they are oblivious to their own biases.

I absolutely agree that music/artist attraction is a whole to some degree, especially when the music is enjoyed because the emotional substance is heavily dependent upon the attraction the audience has toward the artist, it's one of those things that make's Bieber's music extremely subjective though.

By the way, guys have a bias against Bieber not because they are jealous like the deRaNged one suggests but because they simply can't apply their theory of mind to Bieber's overtly wussy shit music, that is very few dudes want to live vicariously through Bieber's awful music.

 

[Cayden Carrell]

...so you can't discount that there is some degree of cognitive bias shaping their subjective opinion of Bieber's music...

It always is, especially in pop music. Always I would say.
I remember my friend once said "I used to love Creed but now that everyone and their grand mum is playing I´m not so sure anymore."

Good points though. Although - if Biebers management called me tomorrow asking me for that next hit I would give it my best shot, and laugh all the way to the bank as I was reading forums where people dissed it.

And I have a feeling most writers on this forums would jump on that request too if it came along.
And I´m absolutely positive they will claim the opposite

 

[Ty baby]

It always is, especially in pop music. Always I would say.
I remember my friend once said "I used to love Creed but now that everyone and their grand mum is playing I´m not so sure anymore."

Good points though. Although - if Biebers management called me tomorrow asking me for that next hit I would give it my best shot, and laugh all the way to the bank as I was reading forums where people dissed it.

And I have a feeling most writers on this forums would jump on that request too if it came along.
And I´m absolutely positive they will claim the opposite

I agree I despise justin but if I were to get a chance to work with him im all for it

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

No one is arguing that Biber doesn't entertain his audience, just that his audience is more prone to being biased toward his music based on factors which have nothing to do with music and that your assumption that his success is driven primarily by his musical talent is therfore quite incorrect.

Same can be said of everyone from Michael Jackson to the Beatles to Elvis Presley. What's your point? And again, you're putting words in my mouth, I've said nothing to insinuate any differently beyond establishing such a factor exists with EVERYONE and can't be held against only Beiber while establishing if there was nothing beyondd the "glits and glam" his career would've been short lived.

 

[goldeneagle]

IIRC his latest album, Journals, absolutely tanked commercially (there's really no hit singles from it as opposed to the 2 or 3 massive songs each he got from Believe and My World 2.0). While the Biebs still has the potential to rebound and make another chart-topper, he's no longer the absolute unstoppable force on the radio that he was about 1-2 years ago. It looked like Journals was an attempt to rework his sound, and I've heard a lot of good things about it, but the radio just didn't buy in.

Next couple years are gonna be crucial to Bieber. He's got a lot of odds going against him in the coming few years, such as:
- the growing backlash against him for idiotic acts such as pissing in a bucket at a restaurant, beating up a taxi driver, just acting entitled, etc
- the big turnover in the music industry that's been happening lately - the generic club beats that Bieber usually sings over are getting phased out by 70s throwback jams (I'm talking to you, Pharrell) and more experimental (at least in terms of pop music) beats. This year alone the songs "Talk Dirty" and "Problem" are both chart-toppers and both of them feature a good sax line that up until now was really uncommon in pop music. Biebs will have to adjust to these new beats and find a way to work them around his style.
- father time. it's simple, it's easier to sell your music to young kids when you yourself are a young kid. Bieber's just turned 20, but that's pretty damn old for a disney-type star. Bieber will need to adapt to selling his music to an older demographic soon, and it's hard when most of the said older demographic already hates your music for originally pandering to the preteen/teen crowd.

It's not impossible for Bieber to overcome these struggles, but not every child superstar can be a Justin Timberlake. Time will tell, I guess, how long he can stay relevant.

ok so let me eat my words on this one

iirc my original post was made about 1.5 years ago

 

[Desire Inspires]

Beiber is on fire!