deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
I don't mean to pull the race card, just researching...how many guys out there who hate Beiber are black? I ask because I've come to the conclusion he must anger guys who's girls admit they'd f**k him or play his music 24/7 or something. Lol. Even with the "n-bombs" he dropped when he was like...12? I can't give enough of a f**k to hate him. Lol. But some guys up here are emotional about proving he's a fluke when obviously, if numbers only told the truth once...this would be the time. Lol. Beiber is a star, celeb, icon, whatever. How can we debate if Dilla is a legend and pretend a guy like Beiber leaves no mark while still living? Can't be serious.
And all i reference is numbers, if he leaves no marks in your personal choice of music that's something we share. But don't act like his music hasn't effected millions of others globally.
And all i reference is numbers, if he leaves no marks in your personal choice of music that's something we share. But don't act like his music hasn't effected millions of others globally.
hollandturbine
New member
^^^If you don't mean to make irrational race based correlations you probably shouldn't.
While it is self evident that Bieber is successful you should at least endeavor to understand why instead of jumping to the conclusion that young girls must know something about quality music which eludes you.
While it is self evident that Bieber is successful you should at least endeavor to understand why instead of jumping to the conclusion that young girls must know something about quality music which eludes you.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
Now you're putting words in my mouth, lol. Young girls know nothing of quality music that eludes me. It's my job to know exactly what young girls love about music, so...I can recognize "Baby" as the hit it was destined to be like I could recognize "Bye Bye" by N'Sync or a thousand other hits based on a demographic. YG/Rich Homie's "My Nigga" was a hit I recognized the second I heard it because of a demographic left field of what we're discussing. I recognized B2k would have a quick rise to success while recognizing that Mindless Behavior wasn't as well of a polished group and would have to work their way up.
But what eludes you is the idea that if MILLIONS of people can recognize the quality in the music, it's more than likely something there you're missing. Rather than chuck it up to that and keep it moving, you somehow develop the idea you're more intelligent for not liking someone who shouldn't effect you in any way than people are for enjoying his contributions. So you have to pick apart his fanbase to give your narcissism foundation.
Again, if he was so interchangeable, he would be with a NEW KID who could do close to the numbers, because from a business perspective, it's about the money and numbers. You think everything you're saying to denounce Beib's talent can't be said for B2K? N'Sync? Katy Perry? Chris Brown? Guns N Roses? U2? The Beatles? All had target demographics that were controlled to an extent by the songs they released as singles and images depicted. Or was Elvis moving his pelvis for his male audience?
The problem here is people within this thread just want Justin to lose. That takes a sad amount of energy on your part. I'm not responding in hopes that he "wins", I'm simply establishing that's what he does. Face it.
Why would you waste your time hoping to do anything in entertainment while underplaying instead of recognizing and analyzing what it takes to "make it"? That's an exercise in futility, and again, Beiber could die tomorrow and I wouldn't give 2 shyts...doesn't mean I don't recognize the fanbase that would immortalize him as they've done Cobain, Jackson, Pac, and others. Why is it so hard to give that guy his dues? You know Pharrell's main fanbase is girls too, right? He can't even sing as well as JB. Never seen him dance. #Justsayin
As for my race inquiry, I was trying to determine if his hate was a recoil from his success. Being that he doesn't have much of an urban fanbase even with the urban influence on his sound, it's more than likely people who despise the guy have to hear about him, listen to his songs, and see his face repeatedly throughout their day.
I hear one of his songs, it's more than likely a decent song, I can nod my head a few minutes and go on with life. Won't hear another one for MONTHS. I only see links to articles about him, not even interested enough to click and read them. No one comes in my studio asking for a song and using one of his for references. I can't be sick of a guy who's no where on my radar, I just recognized I'm a "minority" in this equasion. Like that turn of words?
I can understand the strife if you see posters in your sisters room while she blares his CD 24/7, your mom asks why you're not like him as she watches him on the news, all your clients who record in your studio want to be the next him, and your girlfriend constantly talks about f**king him while his videos play repeatedly on her vevo channel, lol. If that's your story, I guess JB is making your life suck enough to hate him, otherwise, he's just one of a million musicians with a niche'. Good for him, and his millions if not billions of fans.
I was trying to relate to what drives some people here to try to tear him apart every chance they get for doing the EXACT same thing any other entertainer is aligning themselves to do...SELL RECORDS.
But what eludes you is the idea that if MILLIONS of people can recognize the quality in the music, it's more than likely something there you're missing. Rather than chuck it up to that and keep it moving, you somehow develop the idea you're more intelligent for not liking someone who shouldn't effect you in any way than people are for enjoying his contributions. So you have to pick apart his fanbase to give your narcissism foundation.
Again, if he was so interchangeable, he would be with a NEW KID who could do close to the numbers, because from a business perspective, it's about the money and numbers. You think everything you're saying to denounce Beib's talent can't be said for B2K? N'Sync? Katy Perry? Chris Brown? Guns N Roses? U2? The Beatles? All had target demographics that were controlled to an extent by the songs they released as singles and images depicted. Or was Elvis moving his pelvis for his male audience?
The problem here is people within this thread just want Justin to lose. That takes a sad amount of energy on your part. I'm not responding in hopes that he "wins", I'm simply establishing that's what he does. Face it.
Why would you waste your time hoping to do anything in entertainment while underplaying instead of recognizing and analyzing what it takes to "make it"? That's an exercise in futility, and again, Beiber could die tomorrow and I wouldn't give 2 shyts...doesn't mean I don't recognize the fanbase that would immortalize him as they've done Cobain, Jackson, Pac, and others. Why is it so hard to give that guy his dues? You know Pharrell's main fanbase is girls too, right? He can't even sing as well as JB. Never seen him dance. #Justsayin
As for my race inquiry, I was trying to determine if his hate was a recoil from his success. Being that he doesn't have much of an urban fanbase even with the urban influence on his sound, it's more than likely people who despise the guy have to hear about him, listen to his songs, and see his face repeatedly throughout their day.
I hear one of his songs, it's more than likely a decent song, I can nod my head a few minutes and go on with life. Won't hear another one for MONTHS. I only see links to articles about him, not even interested enough to click and read them. No one comes in my studio asking for a song and using one of his for references. I can't be sick of a guy who's no where on my radar, I just recognized I'm a "minority" in this equasion. Like that turn of words?
I can understand the strife if you see posters in your sisters room while she blares his CD 24/7, your mom asks why you're not like him as she watches him on the news, all your clients who record in your studio want to be the next him, and your girlfriend constantly talks about f**king him while his videos play repeatedly on her vevo channel, lol. If that's your story, I guess JB is making your life suck enough to hate him, otherwise, he's just one of a million musicians with a niche'. Good for him, and his millions if not billions of fans.
I was trying to relate to what drives some people here to try to tear him apart every chance they get for doing the EXACT same thing any other entertainer is aligning themselves to do...SELL RECORDS.
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hollandturbine
New member
So...you do know the music is secondary though right? That the primary driving force behind bieber's success is aesthetics, that the music is just a secondary charismatic vehicle?
Bieber appeals first and foremost to the romantic interests of young girls who's prior musical experience was probably a singing purple dinosaur or some shit...so all he has to do reciprocate the initial feelings young girls have toward his physical attractiveness in order to establish romantic infatuations which then allows him and his pimps to rake in huge amounts of money....also it's a reoccurring formula within the industry, so act like you know.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
But again, you're trying to give the impression Beiber doesn't appeal to anything except girls who just got training wheels off their bike to give the idea he doesn't have to be good. AGAIN, THAT WOULD MAKE HIM INTERCHANGEABLE.
These aren't 5 year old girls befriending and following him on the net. Buying out arena tickets within 22 mins of them going on sale, ect. They're coherent enough to surf the net, buy $300 tickets and go to the movies on their own(cause no way anyones sitting thru this B.S. for the sake of their 5 year old daughter). They're able to make a choice in "quality music" that should be respected as their opinion.
Again, I've never heard a horrible song from him. Always well produced and arranged with great lead ups and catchy choruses. The guy has HITS!
Justin Bieber Statistics | Statistic Brain
These aren't 5 year old girls befriending and following him on the net. Buying out arena tickets within 22 mins of them going on sale, ect. They're coherent enough to surf the net, buy $300 tickets and go to the movies on their own(cause no way anyones sitting thru this B.S. for the sake of their 5 year old daughter). They're able to make a choice in "quality music" that should be respected as their opinion.
Again, I've never heard a horrible song from him. Always well produced and arranged with great lead ups and catchy choruses. The guy has HITS!
Justin Bieber Statistics | Statistic Brain
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hollandturbine
New member
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the age of Bieber's demographic is not static.....little girls don't stay little girls forever.....some of those girls who grew up listening to a young hair helmet headed Bieber will be about 20 years old now....and still equally clueless as to what constitutes good quality music now as they were back then because their awful taste in music was etched into their still developing neural pathways when they were exposed to Bieber fever at such a young age....lol...that ain't no joke either it's backed by science.
I must concede that what constitutes good musical taste is quite subjective, however the issue I take with your argument is that correlation does not imply causation....you can't just post Bieber's numbers and say "see, his music must be good if so many people like it" same shit with Soulja Boy, the popularity of that one was not driven primarily by the music, it was a meme, same deal with Baauer's Harlem shake and let's not forget Gangnam Style where clueless people were left scratching their heads trying to figure out why that "music" is so popular....when it's not really about the music at all...what you need to realize is that sometimes the music comes second......some of y'all cat's on here kind of remind me of that movie Medicine Man where Sean Connery's character is trying to synthesize a cancer cure from a flower which turns out to be nothing more than food for some anti cancer ants.
I must concede that what constitutes good musical taste is quite subjective, however the issue I take with your argument is that correlation does not imply causation....you can't just post Bieber's numbers and say "see, his music must be good if so many people like it" same shit with Soulja Boy, the popularity of that one was not driven primarily by the music, it was a meme, same deal with Baauer's Harlem shake and let's not forget Gangnam Style where clueless people were left scratching their heads trying to figure out why that "music" is so popular....when it's not really about the music at all...what you need to realize is that sometimes the music comes second......some of y'all cat's on here kind of remind me of that movie Medicine Man where Sean Connery's character is trying to synthesize a cancer cure from a flower which turns out to be nothing more than food for some anti cancer ants.
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
Gangnam Style had an EPIC video.
Harlem Shake was trendy.
Pharrell's "Happy" is work friendly, church friendly, kid friendly, overall incapable of offending anyone so can be played anywhere and had a cool little viral campaign with the 24 hour video.
We can nitpick all day, but none of the things that make these songs popular rely on them not being enjoyable by listeners who's opinions are just as respectable as yours. And if you were to measure "bad/good" with some type of reputable system(since we'll pretend the amount of people in the world enjoying your records means nothing)who are you to decide what that measurement is? And again, I know plenty of 25 and up chicks who LOVE J.B. He's performing songs by great writers and producers, I'll go as far as to say the songs could have been huge hits if given to any halfway adequate artist from Usher to J. Timberlake...but I'm not gonna pretend that you're putting hitmakers in a room together and when a hit is made, it's a fluke in your book because the guy who made the record is a douche in your eyes.
And your "medicine man" analogy in no way pertains to what's being discussed. All you're saying is YOU can't recognize a hit record and YOU would rather believe everyone else is wrong than to fix your own shortcomings.
Harlem Shake was trendy.
Pharrell's "Happy" is work friendly, church friendly, kid friendly, overall incapable of offending anyone so can be played anywhere and had a cool little viral campaign with the 24 hour video.
We can nitpick all day, but none of the things that make these songs popular rely on them not being enjoyable by listeners who's opinions are just as respectable as yours. And if you were to measure "bad/good" with some type of reputable system(since we'll pretend the amount of people in the world enjoying your records means nothing)who are you to decide what that measurement is? And again, I know plenty of 25 and up chicks who LOVE J.B. He's performing songs by great writers and producers, I'll go as far as to say the songs could have been huge hits if given to any halfway adequate artist from Usher to J. Timberlake...but I'm not gonna pretend that you're putting hitmakers in a room together and when a hit is made, it's a fluke in your book because the guy who made the record is a douche in your eyes.
And your "medicine man" analogy in no way pertains to what's being discussed. All you're saying is YOU can't recognize a hit record and YOU would rather believe everyone else is wrong than to fix your own shortcomings.
hollandturbine
New member
That's right, Gangnam style's popularity was due to it's epic video full of random awesomeness, and Harlem Shake was popular because it became the soundtrack to a Meme....and while you are right about Pharrell's Happy it's the odd one out here because it is first and foremost good music with decent marketing behind it.
It's not about nitpicking, it's about understanding what drives the market....the psychology behind it......and it's not even about anything being a fluke or not, because even if the music is a secondary concern that does not necessarily mean that the main driving force has not been well calculated.
I ain't suggesting that people don't enjoy listening to the music that was secondary to their primary interest or that all interest in music is driven primarily by some other point of interest, I am only saying that it does occur, that sometimes the music is a secondary interest.
It's not about nitpicking, it's about understanding what drives the market....the psychology behind it......and it's not even about anything being a fluke or not, because even if the music is a secondary concern that does not necessarily mean that the main driving force has not been well calculated.
I ain't suggesting that people don't enjoy listening to the music that was secondary to their primary interest or that all interest in music is driven primarily by some other point of interest, I am only saying that it does occur, that sometimes the music is a secondary interest.
Yumid
New member
This, I don't like ANY of his music. But I respect the hell out of him. Id be a hypocrite if I said the stuff he does is 'wrong'
I do a hell of a lot worse stuff then anything he has been in the news for, and I'm sure everyone else here does too. When you have people consistently trying to make you act out, its going to get caught on camera every now and then.
Hes an evolving artist, he's a songwriter, director now (hahaah) and he's going to be around for a long time. Anyone on this forum would give anything to work with him. Period. He's not just 'some kid who got discovered on youtube' he is a genius musically and youtube just happened to be where he caught his break. Of course people originally labeled him as having girly music and appealing to kids. He broke out when he was like what..12?, what else is his music supposed to sound like. As he is getting older its evolving a lot, and I actually don't mind some of the new stuff. Still not a fan, but like I said I respect him. My brother is a mega bieber fan though and doesn't fit ANY of the demographics people assume his fans are (I'm surprised My spellcheck didnt recognize his last name haha)
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
Funny you defend the song "happy". It's "good music"? There you go with your one sided opinions like they're factual again.
I hate Pharrell's song "Happy". It's noise to my ears. I'd have to say that any other song we're discussing is waaaaaaayyyyyy better than that crap. I'll listen to any JB album in it's entirety and feel better than I would having to listen to that 1 song all the way through once. Dudes singing is bad, the lyric "room without a roof?" really? A room without a roof is comparable to feeling great? B.S. the chorus is annoying like something off sesame street that ends up stuck in a child's head...which is why it ends up stuck in children's heads. I hate the arrangement, the way that electric keyboard comes in makes my head hurt. The only salvaging quality is the background singers, they did some cool adlibs. But...all of these are my opinions. Shared by tons of other people as well. Plenty of people want that song to have NEVER existed. I could consider us the "more intelligent among the population", or easily throw the same argument you've been using, he literally has 5 year old fans! "What do they know about music?" But seriously, because of preference in music we're gonna act like Pharrell has no talent? Get real.
I'm not bullheaded enough to believe people are any more brainwashed into enjoying "Happy" than any other song, and I damn sure don't think my opinion is from some founded knowledge everyone else lacks. You on the other hand DO think it has to be no other reason for anyone to enjoy music from JB or any other music you don't deem "good" like you're the music measuring stick.
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ultra auris
New member
re
He's pretty much the shaun cassidy of today. I wouldnt bet on him pulling it together. I can respect his success and marketing but not much of his musical skills or what he has to say. I could think of 1000s of people that are more talented. if we are talking about kid stars lets start with stevie wonder and MJ. totally different level, not even comparable on their skill sets and chops. but even comparing him to those and cobain, etc is a total joke, of course. Hopefully for him, he saves some money.
He's pretty much the shaun cassidy of today. I wouldnt bet on him pulling it together. I can respect his success and marketing but not much of his musical skills or what he has to say. I could think of 1000s of people that are more talented. if we are talking about kid stars lets start with stevie wonder and MJ. totally different level, not even comparable on their skill sets and chops. but even comparing him to those and cobain, etc is a total joke, of course. Hopefully for him, he saves some money.
Yumid
New member
Music today is nothing like it was when MJ and Steve wonder were coming up. Think of Bieber as a company, because thats what he is, a brand that keeps gaining capital. Thats all that matters these days. People don't shut down successful companies that rise as fast and make as much money as he is. Even if he DOES "fade out" it won't be any time soon, and money will never be an issue for him again. Even if his music does all of a sudden stop getting played, he is gaining income from a lot more than just music. He is set for life now and he's what like 20?
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hollandturbine
New member
Funny you defend the song "happy". It's "good music"? There you go with your one sided opinions like they're factual again.
I hate Pharrell's song "Happy". It's noise to my ears. I'd have to say that any other song we're discussing is waaaaaaayyyyyy better than that crap. I'll listen to any JB album in it's entirety and feel better than I would having to listen to that 1 song all the way through once. Dudes singing is bad, the lyric "room without a roof?" really? A room without a roof is comparable to feeling great? B.S. the chorus is annoying like something off sesame street that ends up stuck in a child's head...which is why it ends up stuck in children's heads. I hate the arrangement, the way that electric keyboard comes in makes my head hurt. The only salvaging quality is the background singers, they did some cool adlibs. But...all of these are my opinions. Shared by tons of other people as well. Plenty of people want that song to have NEVER existed. I could consider us the "more intelligent among the population", or easily throw the same argument you've been using, he literally has 5 year old fans! "What do they know about music?" But seriously, because of preference in music we're gonna act like Pharrell has no talent? Get real.
I'm not bullheaded enough to believe people are any more brainwashed into enjoying "Happy" than any other song, and I damn sure don't think my opinion is from some founded knowledge everyone else lacks. You on the other hand DO think it has to be no other reason for anyone to enjoy music from JB or any other music you don't deem "good" like you're the music measuring stick.
Yeah, I don't like Pharrell's Happy either.....so I am not defending it, whatever the fug that means? You seem to be oblivious to the comparative context of my statement where I am pointing out the relative correlation between good music vs decent marketing in regard to popularity/success.....you could quite reasonably argue that I have the relative correlation backwards, that it's decent music with good marketing, or even shitty music propelled by good marketing, but the terms I used are indicative of a best to worst comparison.....It's kind of important that you understand that I am talking about a balance between music being enjoyed in and of itself rather than relying more on external associative factors.
For example when I hear Gangnam Style I enjoy not the music itself so much as the associated visual memory.....the same kind of thing happens when I hear Benny Benassi's Satisfaction I immediately start thinking about chicks using power tools, the difference however is that I also enjoy Benny's music in and of itself to a much higher degree than I would Gangnam Style if there was no visual memory to associate with it.
If Bieber was some dorky bucktoothed pasty freckle faced obese bowl cut sporting red head kid with a lazy eye do you honestly think he would have been as popular and successful?.....I sure as shit don't, so the question I put to you is what percentage of his success do you think can be attributed to associative factors vs the music in and of itself?....or would you maintain that it's all a myth, all the research papers are full of shit and the recording industry is wasting money on image consultants and shit like that because it's always just about the music and only the music?
U
UpnComer
Guest
This makes jay-z and beyonce look lame....https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/be...eber-mugshot-during-212200379.html....calling Justin Bieber one of the "greatest" and comparing him to Tupac, Bill Gates and Rakim... yea like hes one of the greats now??!! Cuz he made that baby song and like 5 other annoying ass songs???