Leasing beats and other scams.

D

dwells

New member
An informative discussion on licensing beats

I'm trying to figure out this whole leasing beats thing. It looks like a scam, and everyone who leases beats is a scam artist. maybe I'm wrong. but in a leased situation the only one who benefits is the producer, the artist gets scammed. my reasons why it a scam:

1. under normal circumstances when a song is made it is the producers just as much as the artist. so producers leasing to maintain ownership, are misinformed. they own the song no matter waht (unless it was a work for hire)

2. The beatmaker is trying to sell the same song to others.

3. the beatmaker wants the artists to 'give back' the beat after a certain amount of time

I'm not attacking anyone who leases, I'm trying to figure it out. Right now I avoid leasing producer like they have the Plague. I see many many many issues with leasing and I don't want to get caught up in that bad business.

Maybe I'm misinformed, can someone clarify why they lease beats.
 
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AJacksProductions said:
people lease in order to sell the same beat to multiple people at the same time.
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exactly!!! terrible business. do people know what derivative work is? and how they can get royally screwed by it.

not to mention, are these beatmakers so terrible that they can't make a new beat?
 
i was never really for leases

but 'leasing producers' swallowed the market up and its pretty much all my customers want to do

so i decided to play ball

in a perfect world id sell a track once for the full price and be done with it
but i (meaning everyone else in the world too) literally cant afford to not give the customer what they want




another point
jackie chain (universal) heard a beat from me (diamonds & cadillacs) and wanted to use the track but informed at the time he didnt have a budget to fit my price tag

another artist we both know was in the room and came up with the idea of letting him lease the beat

which i thought id never see happen for some one with a major label contract

...he paid for a one year lease and after a couple months the record label was interested in buying the beat for his project and deducted the amount of my lease from my asking price

so nobody really got over anybody
nobody got scammed

the selling point was
if he leases it for one year, he could turn it into a big enough song to get his labels attention
if he couldnt do anything with it, then he found out the song wasnt a good look for him and didnt have to spend much in the process
which wouldnt hurt me in trying to sell the beat else where (because if he couldnt get any attention for the song then obviously nobodys heard it, somebody would still be willing to pay for it)


hope that helped?
 
but the record is dead, before it's made. If a label hears 'other versions' of the record, chances are it's going to get killed.

Why not lower your price to fit the marketplace? doing a lease just seems foolish and a scam. It may not be intentional, but it's a scam.

once a song is finish and is out in the market place, you can't resell it.

Not to mention the legal issues. Let's say I'm an artist who leases a beat, after a year I can't use anymore. but when I had it, i pushed it. Then you resell the beat to a major artist, I can sue the major artist, the label, the publishing company, and you for damages. I made the song first, and if I wasn't compensated as derivative work I can. I would be entitled to a split.

I'm still convinced leasing is a scam, even if it's not intentional!
 
This is the standard lease agreement from Soundclick:

LEASING RIGHTS
You will receive an encoded MP3 file of the untagged song, and/or a copy of the raw WAV file. The song file can be delivered digitally or through the mail on a CD. Leasing rights allow you to use the beat (or song) for ONE commercial recording or broadcast. This recording can then be distributed at your price for up to 2,000 copies. Selling more than 2,000 copies means you must acquire a new lease or exclusive rights. You may also use the beat for non-profit promotional use or demos. You have full rights to record, alter, mix the beat/song in any shape, way, or form (except reselling the beat). You will receive a contract in the mail granting you non-exclusive rights to the beat. In the event that someone buys exclusive rights to the beat you have leased, your rights shall stand and the beat is still yours to use. You may also acquire new leasing rights if you sell more than 2,000 copies since your contract predates exclusive sale. The seller will not receive a royalty from the sale of records or downloads. You must however give full credit to the seller (artist and/or producer name) on all commercial recordings. Upon purchasing leasing rights, the seller still owns the beat(s) and the seller is able to resell the beat(s) to any other party until exclusive rights have been purchased.

EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS
You will receive a MP3 file of the beat (or song), untagged (free of soundmarks) and/or a copy of the raw WAV file. The song file can be delivered digitally or through the mail on a CD. Exclusive rights grant you unlimited commercial recordings and broadcasts. You have full rights to record, alter, mix the beat/song in any shape, way, or form (except reselling the beat). You will receive a contract in the mail granting you exclusive rights to the beat. You own the recording as a "work made for hire". The original seller may no longer lease or sell the beat/song, except for prior leasing rights holders and his/her own promotional page (no downloads there). The seller will not receive a royalty from the sale of records or downloads. You must however give full credit to the seller (artist and/or producer name) on all commercial recordings.
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There's a complex interplay of contract law that comes into it, generally it ain't really going to get that far. If I have leased a beat prior to selling exclusives I always let the buyer know the details - if they're cool with it its as good as having a clause in the contract that says they agree to it.

Either way, no point arguing about the ins and outs here, people go to law school for 5 years for a reason lol. If things were as cut and dried as we'd like them to be we wouldn't need courts. FP legal discussions are like blindman's bluff.

Making hot music is enough of a headache, I leave the legal stuff to the pros. Its good having a lawyer in the family.
 
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dwells said:
so all this leasing bullshyt came from soundclick?
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Let me ask you this question:

Do you see any benefit for an up and coming artist to use lease beats?

If not what should an up and coming atist do who has limited resources($$$)?
 
No, it is absolutely a terrible idea for an artist to lease beats. there are no positive benifets at all!

If an artist is short on money, they should save up money to do it the right way! What is the hurry? It's about preparation. Times are rough so it's even more important to be prepared. If the artist is in need of money, they should work an extra 9-5 to save up the money for their dream. There is nothing wrong with taking your time to save up for what is need. The music industry is a war, and no one should run into battle with no ammo and no supplies.
 
dwells said:
Not to mention the legal issues. Let's say I'm an artist who leases a beat, after a year I can't use anymore. but when I had it, i pushed it. Then you resell the beat to a major artist, I can sue the major artist, the label, the publishing company, and you for damages. I made the song first, and if I wasn't compensated as derivative work I can. I would be entitled to a split.
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But If I put in my contract, drafted by an entertainment lawyer, that you can only sell 2000 copies of your mixtape/album that you used the beat on, and after that you must purchase the beat, and you don't, can you still sue me if I own the beat and you signed the contract?

I'm not a big fan of leases also, but rappers won't pay up, so you have to whore yourself, or develop your own artists.
 
resources is not always money, resources can be anything. So if you are short on money, you must be very resourceful. Find alternate ways to take care of business.
 
K-1ne said:
But If I put in my contract, drafted by an entertainment lawyer, that you can only sell 2000 copies of your mixtape/album that you used the beat on, and after that you must purchase the beat, and you don't, can you still sue me if I own the beat and you signed the contract?

I'm not a big fan of leases also, but rappers won't pay up, so you have to whore yourself, or develop your own artists.
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if you got a good lawyer, maybe. but I know some of the best lawyers in the business. It's for the court to decide, and if money is involved do you really want to take that chance?

why won't rappers pay up? I don't see issues with them. rappers are like producers, there are serious ones and ones who don't care. I don't really care about collecting later from the ones who don't care, I know they won't get publishing, so neither will I. I know with them all i get is the money up front. cool. i factor that in the price. If they can't afford it, they can keep moving. but if I need that money, my price lowers because i need that money. but it's still the same deal. I get money up front and I do a split sheet. I keep it simple with them, because they don't care. my split sheet and my project files saved on disc really is all i need to protect myself if something happens with the song.
But serious rappers, I still do a split sheet with. I still don't handle over multitracks until i get my money up front. nothing really changes. as for making sure I collect my publishing, I just pay attention to where my songs are. I follow them.
 
An up and coming should either learn how to produce or team up with a producer like Rakim & Erik to answer your question Mo.

Dwells you have a good point BUT it also depends on what the rapper is using the beat for (demo, local fame, etc.).
 
so people make different songs for demos and local fame? I thought songs were just songs and they can be local, demo, or a hit. they are just songs. so why kill a song before it's made?
 
Also if I was an artist, I would rather use a instrumental from a known song for free, than use a tainted leased track. both records don't have a future, so why pay for the lesser one?
 
What I'm saying is that a lease beat can only go up to 2,000 sells so why promote it as if you are a major artist (have exclusive rights)? If you just want to be heard why would you buy a beat? You say do like Lil'Wayne and rap over someone else beat but you can't sell the songs you have over a major artist's instrumental. Rappers pay for leased beats if they CAN'T afford to buy a beat. That IS the only reason I see. To be heard NOW is better than being heard LATER I guess!
 
immokaleesun239 said:
Dwells you have a good point BUT it also depends on what the rapper is using the beat for (demo, local fame, etc.).
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That is my point exactly.

If you are going to use a beat for an album than most definitely leasing is not the way to go. But I can see demo use, A&R submissions, backing track for a show & stuff like that.

The way I see it is this:

Artists starting out, and testing the waters can definitely benefit from leased beats. No reason to spend a lot of money if you are not sure you can hang.

Artists who are already on the grind and are ready to work on their album should definitely work with a producer one on one to insure that the beat will be used for them only.

By the way, how many producers here would turn away an artist with no talent but with MONEY?
 
dwells said:
Also if I was an artist, I would rather use a instrumental from a known song for free, than use a tainted leased track. both records don't have a future, so why pay for the lesser one?
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The reason I would not do that is because if I'm using 50 cent's track and my skills are nowhere near 50 cent level, that comparison will stand out to the listener, A&R or whoever.
 
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