Gaus
New member
Making music for fun is a way more noble cause than doing it for money...
Why Being a Hip-Hop Producer Sucks
- Thread starter Griffin Avid
- Start date
Mista Jones D
New member
From what I've seen the most successful producers have rappers or singers that match their style ex.
Timbo w/Missy Elliot, Ginuwine and Aaliyah
Shawty Redd w/ Young Jeezy
Zaytoven w/Gucci Mane
Mike Will w/Future
Wack ass Mustard w/YG
Timbo w/Missy Elliot, Ginuwine and Aaliyah
Shawty Redd w/ Young Jeezy
Zaytoven w/Gucci Mane
Mike Will w/Future
Wack ass Mustard w/YG
BlazenHotTracks
the good life
sounds like some1 aint gratefull ' blessed to be in any position ' without obstacles we cant learn from adversity/mistakes ,mistakes that teaches us from lifes lessons which in fact depending on your out look on life determines your outcome '
Pumpthrust
New member
No it isn't. Doing something for the fun of it is not a noble cause--its a hobby. Being a hobbyist isn't noble.
Zonic
New member
Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist... i knock noone who does things
just because they like them... not everything has to be about money.
Truth be told, it's usually the ones that do it for the love that have
the most fun doing it... you can see it in their eyes that it comes from
an honest and pure place... no ego, no money, nothing matters... just
the craft.
Pumpthrust
New member
....which isn't noble at all. Not knocking being a hobbyist, just saying, doing something for free doesn't make it any more honest or pure than a person doing it for $. If anything, I consider the person willing to put a price tag on their art for the time and energy they invested into it the more honest individual since (usually) it means that person realizes the true value of their craft and isn't willing to treat their art as something disposable.
Griffin Avid
Media Editor
it means that person realizes the true value of their craft and isn't willing to treat their art as something disposable.
Sounds like you both agree and disagree at the same time.
Consider these simple questions....
1) What If I am money motivated, but my art doesn't sell? As in, what if I am doing it mostly for the $$$ and it doesn't make me any or enough?
Do I stop being an artist? Do I stop doing whatever it is that wasn't working?
Do I decide to do- instead -what I see working or selling?
Should I quit if I don't get what I wanted from creating?
and...
2) What if I am props motivated, but my art doesn't resonate? As in, what if I am doing it mostly for the love and it doesn't get me any or enough?
Do I stop being an artist? Do I stop doing whatever it is that wasn't working?
Do I decide to do- instead -what I see working and being appreciated?
Should I quit if I don't get what I wanted from creating?
It's the same thing really.
What's the difference between wanting to be rich or famous?
Rich as in Compensated till you are well off.....or VERY well off.
And Famous as KNOWN for something. Respected as an artist or seen as successful in business.
What is honesty? And who decides for anyone what the CORRECT MOTIVATION to create is.
Holding a job is noble. Working for a living is respected by society.
Does it matter (to whom?) whether I'm working to pay bills, better my situation, feed my family or get some new sneakers VERSE
working hard because I love my job?
Your insight/opinion is that THAT WILL SHOW UP IN YOUR ART.
If I like it, they are doing it the right way and for the right reasons.
If I hate it, they are....
The problem is that we/us/they/you are focused on the wrong end.
It aint the artist that's the problem, it's the business behind the art.
If you are hiding in your closet, making your art just for the love and really not sharing it, there's no reason to hate the people or engine that is out there every night shaking their azz for that paper. Art for arts sake isn't sellable and has never been. Some think "Being a real artist" is an excuse to not work towards getting their art appreciated.
Just like, if you are on those stages and huge platforms, you can also realize, it's not your trashy-art that is selling, but the fact that you are ultra-exposed. Almost ANYTHING shoved down that many throats is going to swallowed in great numbers. And so, you don't have to be total garbage to turn people on.
Simple rules.
If they are talking about YOU and not your art, you are not an artist. You are an image.
If your art's appreciation is imaginary, you are not an artist. You are someone talking about art.
Sounds like you both agree and disagree at the same time.
Consider these simple questions....
1) What If I am money motivated, but my art doesn't sell? As in, what if I am doing it mostly for the $$$ and it doesn't make me any or enough?
Do I stop being an artist? Do I stop doing whatever it is that wasn't working?
Do I decide to do- instead -what I see working or selling?
Should I quit if I don't get what I wanted from creating?
and...
2) What if I am props motivated, but my art doesn't resonate? As in, what if I am doing it mostly for the love and it doesn't get me any or enough?
Do I stop being an artist? Do I stop doing whatever it is that wasn't working?
Do I decide to do- instead -what I see working and being appreciated?
Should I quit if I don't get what I wanted from creating?
It's the same thing really.
What's the difference between wanting to be rich or famous?
Rich as in Compensated till you are well off.....or VERY well off.
And Famous as KNOWN for something. Respected as an artist or seen as successful in business.
What is honesty? And who decides for anyone what the CORRECT MOTIVATION to create is.
Holding a job is noble. Working for a living is respected by society.
Does it matter (to whom?) whether I'm working to pay bills, better my situation, feed my family or get some new sneakers VERSE
working hard because I love my job?
Your insight/opinion is that THAT WILL SHOW UP IN YOUR ART.
If I like it, they are doing it the right way and for the right reasons.
If I hate it, they are....
The problem is that we/us/they/you are focused on the wrong end.
It aint the artist that's the problem, it's the business behind the art.
If you are hiding in your closet, making your art just for the love and really not sharing it, there's no reason to hate the people or engine that is out there every night shaking their azz for that paper. Art for arts sake isn't sellable and has never been. Some think "Being a real artist" is an excuse to not work towards getting their art appreciated.
Just like, if you are on those stages and huge platforms, you can also realize, it's not your trashy-art that is selling, but the fact that you are ultra-exposed. Almost ANYTHING shoved down that many throats is going to swallowed in great numbers. And so, you don't have to be total garbage to turn people on.
Simple rules.
If they are talking about YOU and not your art, you are not an artist. You are an image.
If your art's appreciation is imaginary, you are not an artist. You are someone talking about art.
Zonic
New member
I'm not knocking putting a price on your art either... in fact
i am all for it.
But to say that doing something for the love isn't noble
is kinda bullshit. I mean who are we to say what is noble
and what isn't... it comes down to how you view what you do.
But i will say this...what i have noticed... in myself and in others
is that when i'm not thinking about money, an image, a business,
and all i care about is what i'm doing at that moment? It's
euphoria.
No amount of money replaces the feeling you get from creation.
Legal Dollaz
New member
In regards to real-life financial viability potential: Songmaker > Beatmaker
Beatmakers are falling into the "session musician" category...
wildinout8
Moderator
I agree with everything you said...
...except for you're "off Hip Hop" because you're all about making songs...not exactly sure what that means.
You're "off Hip Hop" because it's not played on the radio? Because I hardly call the rap songs played 89 times a day on radio "songs" IMO.
Just speculating, but if the thought is you need to make radio songs to be successful or have influence just ask Chief Keef and Bobby Schmurda how their pockets are looking nowadays.
I'd hate to see what cats are doing with their 401Ks and personal stock investments if life is all about what the current trend is...but just speculating on how I interpreted that one comment.
Gaus
New member
Sure u can put a price tag on ur beats as long as u do it for the love of music and thats a noble cause, but when u start treating music like a buisniess shit goes downhill (from a musical perspective) A beat made for the cash aint ever gonna have as much soul as a beat made out of passion. Thats why 99.9% of all succesfull music today sux
Griffin Avid
Media Editor
Sounds like we need to make up our minds.
Okay, so here we are saying Songs > Beatz
But three threads ago, we all agreed songs aint selling.....they being streamed which pays pennies...
And then we talk about publishing and royalties about (our) songs that still aint even in a position to leverage those two aspects for true financial windfalls.
Four threads ago, it was all about branding....remember that?
And now, lo and behold, we're all going to wake up and realize it's was, been and will be all about shows.....
and if anyone thinks T-shirts sold at a show is the pathway to retirement, I dunno.......
Okay, so here we are saying Songs > Beatz
But three threads ago, we all agreed songs aint selling.....they being streamed which pays pennies...
And then we talk about publishing and royalties about (our) songs that still aint even in a position to leverage those two aspects for true financial windfalls.
Four threads ago, it was all about branding....remember that?
And now, lo and behold, we're all going to wake up and realize it's was, been and will be all about shows.....
and if anyone thinks T-shirts sold at a show is the pathway to retirement, I dunno.......
wildinout8
Moderator
Moral of the story is none of this matters - in ANY industry - unless you can take whatever income you're getting and make that money work for you.
If you want to sell beats? Cool.
If you want to sell t-shirts? Cool.
If you want to sell songs? Cool.
But, none of that matters unless you invest that back into a real money maturing process. Why do you think all these cats take their music money and end up flipping real estate, opening restaurants, creating headphones and car speakers? Because, now my money is doing the work for me.
If you're making a few hundred dollars a month selling beats, but don't have health insurance, a 401K and a personal investment portfolio...then expect to be living paycheck to paycheck arguing about why Songs > Beats.
Griffin Avid
Media Editor
health insurance, a 401K and a personal investment portfolio...then expect to be living paycheck to paycheck arguing about why Songs > Beats.
Most of what you are referencing is coming from good paying jobs.
And if you have a good paying job, you're probably not that concerned with selling beats for a living.
It's probably a fantasy, but your reality is what you do that pays your bills plus....
In other words, if I am living check to check then I'm probably NOT able to really pop off a ...
401K and a personal investment portfolio
Most of what you are referencing is coming from good paying jobs.
And if you have a good paying job, you're probably not that concerned with selling beats for a living.
It's probably a fantasy, but your reality is what you do that pays your bills plus....
In other words, if I am living check to check then I'm probably NOT able to really pop off a ...
401K and a personal investment portfolio
wildinout8
Moderator
You don't need a "good paying job" in order to save money...not sure about that logic. Find a way to get some disposable income, but cats wanna buy Beats to match their Jays...wanna upgrade their Macbook Pro, but can't afford a copay to see a doctor...wanna get Symphobia 2, but don't a have a savings account.
If you're living paycheck to paycheck, then you really have no business selling beats thinking you about to get ya money up.
Moral of the post - Dre, Taylor Swift, Pharell, even Drake didn't get their money up worrying about songs > beats - they diversified with the money they made from music.
MR44khz
New member
I just watched the no future in you frontin the second version by breed and noticed dudes in the beginning dancing next to a noose wtf?
Griffin Avid
Media Editor
You don't need a "good paying job" in order to save money...not sure about that logic.
I don't know what logic you used to equate a 401k and investment portfolio with "saving money".
Anything can be used for Saving Money.
401K works best when it is pre-tax. That requires a job that offers that.
401K works best when when it is price matched by your employer. That requires a job that offers that.
In investment FIRM handles your investment portfolio. They also have a minimum number to start.
YOU need to know about investing to guide or watch over your investment.
Most cats don't have that start-up amount on smash or knowledge.
This forum is mostly youngish beatsmiths and indie producers doing what they do.
To throw around financial advice like everyone is handling paper is silly.
I know, this is the part when you throw another flippant comment about YOU BEING GOOD and being surprised everyone else is broke.
Find a way to get some disposable income,
Great advice, but exactly no explanation given as to how. Most think selling beats will do exactly that.
As opposed to a part time job, hell, a better paying job, better spending choices....etc.....
but cats wanna buy Beats to match their Jays...
Yes frivolous spending on unimportant stuff.
wanna upgrade their Macbook Pro, but can't afford a copay to see a doctor...
Now you went and got silly. Upgrading their production tools is part of self-investing. That makes sense if needed.
Co-pay costs are also tied to your health insurance, which is What a good paying job is about. A copay can be as low as $20 bucks.
Hardly is there a choice between that and a laptop upgrade.
wanna get Symphobia 2, but don't a have a savings account.
Insert anything that isn't as important as saving money. Wanna get a deluxe burger with cheese and don't have a savings account.....
He oughta get a Jr burger and hit that bank up on the way home, homie.
If you're living paycheck to paycheck, then you really have no business selling beats thinking you about to get ya money up.
If you are in any position, you shouldn't be thinking about selling beats to get your money up. THAT is the true moral of the story, which is why we are exploring
Anything > Songs > Beatz --> When it comes to a financial future.
Moral of the post - Dre, Taylor Swift, Pharell, even Drake didn't get their money up worrying about songs > beats - they diversified with the money they made from music.
Silliest part of your post.
Sounds like you don't actually know the history of anyone you named above.
Like, what they did before, to get in.... Dre; a rapper in a rap group- turned producer/investor....
Drake...actor, turned rapper....also recently complaining about his paper... google that...
The relevant ones PRODUCERS/BEATMAKERS.
Did that, in a time when money flowed differently- so to GO BACK IN TIME and judge my modern/current prospects on a market (and industry) that has changed so drastically says you are not fully aware of the current scene. In other words, you aint getting paid for beatz like that anymore.
And since SONGS aint selling, you aint getting paid off songs like that anymore.
That is where this discussion was going.
I don't know what logic you used to equate a 401k and investment portfolio with "saving money".
Anything can be used for Saving Money.
401K works best when it is pre-tax. That requires a job that offers that.
401K works best when when it is price matched by your employer. That requires a job that offers that.
In investment FIRM handles your investment portfolio. They also have a minimum number to start.
YOU need to know about investing to guide or watch over your investment.
Most cats don't have that start-up amount on smash or knowledge.
This forum is mostly youngish beatsmiths and indie producers doing what they do.
To throw around financial advice like everyone is handling paper is silly.
I know, this is the part when you throw another flippant comment about YOU BEING GOOD and being surprised everyone else is broke.
Find a way to get some disposable income,
Great advice, but exactly no explanation given as to how. Most think selling beats will do exactly that.
As opposed to a part time job, hell, a better paying job, better spending choices....etc.....
but cats wanna buy Beats to match their Jays...
Yes frivolous spending on unimportant stuff.
wanna upgrade their Macbook Pro, but can't afford a copay to see a doctor...
Now you went and got silly. Upgrading their production tools is part of self-investing. That makes sense if needed.
Co-pay costs are also tied to your health insurance, which is What a good paying job is about. A copay can be as low as $20 bucks.
Hardly is there a choice between that and a laptop upgrade.
wanna get Symphobia 2, but don't a have a savings account.
Insert anything that isn't as important as saving money. Wanna get a deluxe burger with cheese and don't have a savings account.....
He oughta get a Jr burger and hit that bank up on the way home, homie.
If you're living paycheck to paycheck, then you really have no business selling beats thinking you about to get ya money up.
If you are in any position, you shouldn't be thinking about selling beats to get your money up. THAT is the true moral of the story, which is why we are exploring
Anything > Songs > Beatz --> When it comes to a financial future.
Moral of the post - Dre, Taylor Swift, Pharell, even Drake didn't get their money up worrying about songs > beats - they diversified with the money they made from music.
Silliest part of your post.
Sounds like you don't actually know the history of anyone you named above.
Like, what they did before, to get in.... Dre; a rapper in a rap group- turned producer/investor....
Drake...actor, turned rapper....also recently complaining about his paper... google that...
The relevant ones PRODUCERS/BEATMAKERS.
Did that, in a time when money flowed differently- so to GO BACK IN TIME and judge my modern/current prospects on a market (and industry) that has changed so drastically says you are not fully aware of the current scene. In other words, you aint getting paid for beatz like that anymore.
And since SONGS aint selling, you aint getting paid off songs like that anymore.
That is where this discussion was going.
Nightshade
New member
You want to make money selling t-shirts then get you a print press and start designing and printing the shirts other people sell at their concerts.
It's all about looking at things from a different angles and knowing how the money actually flows not how it appears or how others want you to see it.
It's all about looking at things from a different angles and knowing how the money actually flows not how it appears or how others want you to see it.
wildinout8
Moderator
SMH - not trying to get into a flame war, but you just put up a ton of misinformation regarding investing, benefits and overall possibilities to grow ones wealth and health. If you'd like me to elaborate, I will, but that wasn't the point of my posts.
The problem is, like investing your money, in yourself or in your equipment it takes Time and Patience - two things the young cats on this forum do not have. They see DJ Mustard and think that they can make some copy cat trap beats and become millionaires overnight. Then, they post their grievances on these forums because we, as elders, are not giving them a proper education. You have cats who own 10 synths, but can't use one properly or understand how to create a chord progression, what a pentatonic scale is...but they invested in themselves by buying Symphobia 2? How's that Symphobia 2 going to work out when you're dead cuz you don't take care of your health. The whole point of bringing up investing was to show that too many people are worried about the current trends and I'd hate to see how they would handle their stocks or investment portfolios because they have no grasp of bigger pictures and long term thinking - isn't supposed to be a whole new topic of discussion.
Now, for the "silliest" part of my post - please educate us what Dre, Taylor Swift, Pharell and Drake are doing with their music money nowadays if it's not diversification and investing?
It also looks like you weren't really sure where the "discussion was going" four posts ago...remember that?
And it's funny how you finish with "pathway to retirement", but then want to critique my investing posts - what would you then recommend as a legitimate "pathway to retirement"?
If you disagree with this statement, then good luck to you not only in your music or ANY career, but with your overall Life in general because you clearly have no idea about hustlin, economics or future stability.
The problem is, like investing your money, in yourself or in your equipment it takes Time and Patience - two things the young cats on this forum do not have. They see DJ Mustard and think that they can make some copy cat trap beats and become millionaires overnight. Then, they post their grievances on these forums because we, as elders, are not giving them a proper education. You have cats who own 10 synths, but can't use one properly or understand how to create a chord progression, what a pentatonic scale is...but they invested in themselves by buying Symphobia 2? How's that Symphobia 2 going to work out when you're dead cuz you don't take care of your health. The whole point of bringing up investing was to show that too many people are worried about the current trends and I'd hate to see how they would handle their stocks or investment portfolios because they have no grasp of bigger pictures and long term thinking - isn't supposed to be a whole new topic of discussion.
Now, for the "silliest" part of my post - please educate us what Dre, Taylor Swift, Pharell and Drake are doing with their music money nowadays if it's not diversification and investing?
It also looks like you weren't really sure where the "discussion was going" four posts ago...remember that?
And it's funny how you finish with "pathway to retirement", but then want to critique my investing posts - what would you then recommend as a legitimate "pathway to retirement"?
If you disagree with this statement, then good luck to you not only in your music or ANY career, but with your overall Life in general because you clearly have no idea about hustlin, economics or future stability.
Last edited: