If It Ain't About The Money: Does Hip Hop Still Need Major Labels?

[benji2]

I'm a realist. And I understand the ACTUAL way the business works, and not the MTV / American Idol version of how things work.


And the reality is that relationships make this business go round. It has very little to do with talent.


It's not about who you know, it's about WHO KNOWS YOU.



It's about the money out here.


I'd rather have 10% of a Million than 100% of $1,000.



I've been out here doing this full time since 2013. It's hard out here. There's no time for idealism and purism when the light bill is due. I need to generate revenue and I need to generate it NOW. I don't have 10 years to buck the majors, and wait for the grass roots seeds to grow. I need a publicist, who knows people at TV, so I can get this artist some exposure NOW. I need an agent, who has connections, so that I can get this artist some work NOW.


That's the real side of shit. Behind every mega successful artist, is a conglomerate of people with RELATIONSHIPS, that make their career possible.



Drake was only buzzing on YouTube before CMR / Universal got involved. Radio just didn't "adopt" that song cuz they loved its much. That was a major doing that.

Same thing with Macklemore. Thrift shop didn't "magically" appear on every radio station in the country because it was such an amazing song. Those were the MAJORS that did that.

I told you two years ago you were more Exec than artist. You are defending Corporations!! (lol) You'd be the perfect Exec for cutthroat Exec's. You'd be the face the artists would identify with rather than powerful Jewish exec behind the scenes. I saw Master P, Diddy, 50 Cent, Jay Z get rich by playing these same hardball tactics. Like Master P said you have to stick to your guns. Of course they wanted more than a 26% split, but using your same logic, he told them 26% is better than zero percent. Take it or leave it. I gave you an example of an independent label making major gwap today but you credited to being a 25 year vet. How many other 25 year old vets are on Forbes list of highest paid entertainers. When I hear of a new independent artist who's doing fine financially on their own, I'll update the thread. I try to stick to the facts to support my beliefs.

 

[Legal Dollaz]

Hip-Hop & Major Labels In 2015 | Complex

I get that none of the genre's classic albums couldn't have been made possible without major labels.

The 80's/Early 90's had nothing but classic singles and albums being released by independent labels such as Sugar Hill, Priority, Select, Wild Pitch,Tommy Boy, Profile, Priority, 4th & Broadway, Ruthless, Rap A Lot, etc...

As a music culture it was born outside of the major label system and when that same system can no longer ring any dollars out of it and kick it to the curb it will still live on

 

[boombapdame]

The 80's/Early 90's had nothing but classic singles and albums being released by independent labels such as Sugar Hill, Priority, Select, Wild Pitch,Tommy Boy, Profile, Priority, 4th & Broadway, Ruthless, Rap A Lot, etc...

As a music culture it was born outside of the major label system and when that same system can no longer ring any dollars out of it and kick it to the curb it will still live on

Thanks for refreshing my memory as I do remember the days of the aforementioned labels.

 

[j.troup]

I told you two years ago you were more Exec than artist. You are defending Corporations!! (lol) You'd be the perfect Exec for cutthroat Exec's. You'd be the face the artists would identify with rather than powerful Jewish exec behind the scenes. I saw Master P, Diddy, 50 Cent, Jay Z get rich by playing these same hardball tactics. Like Master P said you have to stick to your guns. Of course they wanted more than a 26% split, but using your same logic, he told them 26% is better than zero percent. Take it or leave it. I gave you an example of an independent label making major gwap today but you credited to being a 25 year vet. How many other 25 year old vets are on Forbes list of highest paid entertainers. When I hear of a new independent artist who's doing fine financially on their own, I'll update the thread. I try to stick to the facts to support my beliefs.

I'm not defending corporations, nor am I anti corporations. Everybody has their part to play.

Your problem is, you ain't been out here, depending on this shit to put food on the table, to really be exposed to to how this shit really works.

You talking Master P, Jay-Z, and 50 Cent...you're proving my point. These boys were doing "okay" (by street definitions), until they linked with a Major that could take them to the next level. P didn't have relationships with Big Box Stores. He was mom/pop and out the trunk. Jay nem didn't have relationships at TV and Radio nationwide. Neither did 50.

Sure, their "underground" success gave them leverage at the negotiating table, but they still made 1000x more money with a major than without em.



If you've EVER tried to get a song played on the local radio station in your city, then you'd understand. Even that shit takes RELATIONSHIPS.



Again...it depends on what's more important to you...CONTROL or MONEY.



Tech...for all his DIY accolades and such, ain't gon catch Drake on the career money list. EVER. Drake could fizzle out in 5 years, and still would have made more than Tech in career earnings...PLUS still have his catalog raking in royalties.



The majors definitely have a place. They have a very important place. Is it "right"...is it "fair"...no. But neither is life.



You either play the game, or sit your ass on the sidelines and come up with a new game.

 

[yokuzin]

If you want national exposure...you need a major. Period.

true for the past............definitely not true today. A lot of artist have been signed to these "majors" and stuck as these come and go artist hit the charts and disappear.

You're not getting National Prime Time radio spins without a major.

You thought wrong.........fact is that today the radio has turned to what's hot on the "INTERNET" as a source ALSO......people > majors......majors have NOTHING to do with that.......good ole word of mouth.....social shares and likes > major relationships. Sorry.....people are not brainwashed by being told what's hot by these Majors. You can count on both hands the people who are major in the majors of urban radio.....since we are talking in the R&B/ Hip hop side.

That says a lot about "signing to a major" right there. 10 or a little more artist selling the MULTITUDE OF ARTIST a pipe dream.......as they haven't focused on the MULTITUDE of artist who are signed and are NOT GETTING ANY OF that special treatment you referring to. But they are hypnotized in to seeing those special 10 artist......and that's only the Urban hip hop/R&B side........

 

[benji2]

I'm not defending corporations, nor am I anti corporations. Everybody has their part to play.

Your problem is, you ain't been out here, depending on this shit to put food on the table, to really be exposed to to how this shit really works.

You talking Master P, Jay-Z, and 50 Cent...you're proving my point. These boys were doing "okay" (by street definitions), until they linked with a Major that could take them to the next level. P didn't have relationships with Big Box Stores. He was mom/pop and out the trunk. Jay nem didn't have relationships at TV and Radio nationwide. Neither did 50.

Sure, their "underground" success gave them leverage at the negotiating table, but they still made 1000x more money with a major than without em.



If you've EVER tried to get a song played on the local radio station in your city, then you'd understand. Even that shit takes RELATIONSHIPS.



Again...it depends on what's more important to you...CONTROL or MONEY.



Tech...for all his DIY accolades and such, ain't gon catch Drake on the career money list. EVER. Drake could fizzle out in 5 years, and still would have made more than Tech in career earnings...PLUS still have his catalog raking in royalties.



The majors definitely have a place. They have a very important place. Is it "right"...is it "fair"...no. But neither is life.



You either play the game, or sit your ass on the sidelines and come up with a new game.

Come on Troup, you're better than that. Attacking Tech nine's success and comparing him to Drake to make your point is very inmature. I could understand you saying he's an exception to the rule but comparing him to Drake is a childish bush league approach.

 

[Desire Inspires]

Signing a record deal is not really about making a lot of money, at least not initially. It is about having a team of people working hard to promote the brand and image of the artist to the world. For every popular artist you see, there is a small army of people working on their behalf in the background to make sure things go correctly.

 

[yokuzin]

Point being.......you don't see many NEW SUCCESSFUL ARTIST.............what happened to the well known artist from 3.....5......7 years ago and why are their albums doing sorry ass numbers yet they signed.....Can't get views on youtube.....can't get radio play.....can't even get a feature on the homeboy's album that signed them? His homeboy (with pull and power) trying to get a feature on some broke ass dude's song that is pushing 20 mill on everything it is on.

But them dudes end up signing "DEALS" and only releasing mixtapes that do less and less numbers every release until they are forgotten about.

But that broke dude CREATED A WAY for a bunch of old ass rappers to get in on HIS ROYALTIES by being on a remix. Which now the broke dude's song which has him on it (by him self under NOBODY'S LABEL) gets no more air play since there is this remix full of blah, blah, blah that nobody cares about......that waiting on all the real catch phrases the broke dude was saying.

It's been happening....this is nothing new if you LISTEN to radio. Katy Perry could easily be on a NOBODY UNSIGNED street dude now a days.

 

[j.troup]

true for the past............definitely not true today. A lot of artist have been signed to these "majors" and stuck as these come and go artist hit the charts and disappear.




You thought wrong.........fact is that today the radio has turned to what's hot on the "INTERNET" as a source ALSO......people > majors......majors have NOTHING to do with that.......good ole word of mouth.....social shares and likes > major relationships. Sorry.....people are not brainwashed by being told what's hot by these Majors. You can count on both hands the people who are major in the majors of urban radio.....since we are talking in the R&B/ Hip hop side.

That says a lot about "signing to a major" right there. 10 or a little more artist selling the MULTITUDE OF ARTIST a pipe dream.......as they haven't focused on the MULTITUDE of artist who are signed and are NOT GETTING ANY OF that special treatment you referring to. But they are hypnotized in to seeing those special 10 artist......and that's only the Urban hip hop/R&B side........

You, my friend, are delusional. People like what they are TOLD to like....by virtue of media repetition.


Why you think Iggy all of a sudden blew up with those crappy songs?

1) Because the Max Martin Machine known as KESHA finally got out of her way

2) Because THE MAJORS finally got involved with her.


TI tried for YEARS to break the girl. He couldn't do it. She was just buzzing on youtube...that's it. Until THE MAJORS got involved with her and shoved her down the throats of late night media and RADIO. THEN she blew.


The internet is GREAT. It's great for BUILDING a fanbase. But then when you need to MONETIZE that fan base, you're gonna go to the majors. Because Monetization comes in the way of...


Shows. And I'm talking BIG shows.
Record Sales.
Radio Play.
Endorsements.
TV/Movie Appearances.
Private Engagements.

Majors have those relationships to make those things happen.



My point is, BOTH are important. But you're just NOT going to become a superstar without the services that the majors provide. It's just NOT gonna happen.

 

[j.troup]

Come on Troup, you're better than that. Attacking Tech nine's success and comparing him to Drake to make your point is very inmature. I could understand you saying he's an exception to the rule but comparing him to Drake is a childish bush league approach.

Oh C'mon benji, stop crying. lol


I'm not attacking Tech9ne. I'm comparing the results of the approaches to the business. That's all.


I commend Tech on what he's done. He's a model for independence.


If hitting a peak of 12 Mil a year after grinding for 25 years is good for you, then great. That's what relative total independence can get for you.


But if you wanna make 50 Million REAL QUICK (drake voice), then the majors is the best way to go.



Hip Hop is a young man's game. Tech is gonna have to STAY on tour in order to maintain that level of income. Simply because, he doesn't have the star power to command the type of attention from the media, to bring him the opportunities for other revenue streams like acting, major endorsements (clothing, liquor, fragrance), etc.

Drake on the other hand, he's young. He peaked REAL QUICK. So now he can ride out the next 15 years of his life on the name that the Majors Fame got for him. So he can fool the Hollywood guys into thinking he's still hot (like 50 is doing!) and get a few mill per movie role. Still play shows. Still get late night TV appearances. And still get some moderate radio play. Not to mention his face on products.

AND still play shows to his catalog of hits.



Drake will have time to raise his kids and be a family man, because he's a big enough star that he won't have to spend all this time on the road.


Then minute that Tech steps off the road for a year or two, he's DONE FOR.

 

[Zonic]

That Iggy/TI shit is so true lol...

TI really tried to break that broad and she was NOT popping at all,
it wasn't till that major came in and said "ok, this broad... new face
of female hip-hop NOW" lol.

I always admired majors because of that power. They have a
machine in place that can turn a nobody into a star overnight,
literally.

Not only that but that machine is so locked in place that the
second a major artist decides to leave it they start to lose relevancy.
(ie: 50 Cent)

I don't think it's possible for someone to recreate that machine at
that level, but it is very possible to recreate a "mini-machine", which
is kinda what people like Tech N9NE and Ryan Leslie are doing right
now.

The downside to that = no radio, no high-level fame, no tv
but you'll control everything and make decent money for
survival.

I do believe the best approach is a hybrid of both... I kinda like
what 50 is doing right now, he's ridding of that "50 Cent" name
Interscope built for him.

 

[yokuzin]

My point is, BOTH are important. But you're just NOT going to become a superstar without the services that the majors provide. It's just NOT gonna happen.

I mean that is common law. Superstar status takes the power of the majors........................


O.K.......name me 10 SUCCESSFUL superstars within 5 years...........

even if you name 15 that number is too small to prove how IMPORTANT the majors RELATIONSHIPS ARE TODAY.......like what makes someone that important to be chosen within the rotation of how the majors move? Why should anyone care for that type of relationship today anyway.........when you can still have a fanbase, still get RADIO PLAY (this is a fact, no delusion).

Being signed to a major shows more B.S than the few you want to use to prove your point. If it was all good like that for a larger quantity of people signed, then I would agree. But what I see today....TODAY dude...not yesterday....TODAY.......is the underdog winning...and only a dozen "superstars" winning. Artist are still getting stuck with fame without the fortune.

What about those others that are signed? Can't hide behind Drake and Iggy and Kendrick and Nicki and Beyonce and nem. Or....Taylor Swift and Pitbull and nem.

More bullshit than glory.

 

[j.troup]

I mean that is common law. Superstar status takes the power of the majors........................


O.K.......name me 10 SUCCESSFUL superstars within 5 years...........

even if you name 15 that number is too small to prove how IMPORTANT the majors RELATIONSHIPS ARE TODAY.......like what makes someone that important to be chosen within the rotation of how the majors move? Why should anyone care for that type of relationship today anyway.........when you can still have a fanbase, still get RADIO PLAY (this is a fact, no delusion).

Being signed to a major shows more B.S than the few you want to use to prove your point. If it was all good like that for a larger quantity of people signed, then I would agree. But what I see today....TODAY dude...not yesterday....TODAY.......is the underdog winning...and only a dozen "superstars" winning. Artist are still getting stuck with fame without the fortune.

What about those others that are signed? Can't hide behind Drake and Iggy and Kendrick and Nicki and Beyonce and nem. Or....Taylor Swift and Pitbull and nem.

More bullshit than glory.

Okay...then name me some indie urban artists who are doing better on the money/visibility front than some non-household names major backed artists.


Don't worry...I'll wait.

 

[j.troup]

You think this appearance is happening without a Major??

Nah. This type of stuff is advertising. It's visibility. It's exactly what artists need to raise their profile so that they can become in demand and make MONEY.

 

[yokuzin]

Okay...then name me some indie urban artists who are doing better on the money/visibility front than some non-household names major backed artists.


Don't worry...I'll wait.

I'll let the real hip hop fans answer that one because I don't listen or keep up with half of the hip hop artist I'm "SUPPOSE TO KNOW" like Doom and Black Milk and nem..... but I bet that they are doing better than a lot of them dudes who DON'T EVEN GET A FEATURE! Get paid to be on the stage posing I guess......wonder how much they pay to do that......I can do that........better than they do.......I'd be like


They ass probably on contract NOT to walk a certain way......they don't even take a shit in certain bathrooms scared it will fuuck up their chances since they made it this far.........straight up.........they just happy to live the life and one day they will GET THEIR CHANCE.....never give up hope........they hate other artist because they know they on the same boat...........I mean they been waitin for almost 7 or 8 years now under contract....with that same style that got them signed.......same style of beats.......I MEAN DAMN.....they are the proof that a dope beat can't help you........they keeping it real for their fans....the ones they had back in 2004 before they got signed.......who still wear big ass jeans and throwbacks in 2015........

 

[yokuzin]

You think this appearance is happening without a Major??

Nah. This type of stuff is advertising. It's visibility. It's exactly what artists need to raise their profile so that they can become in demand and make MONEY.

You think it can't happen without a major?

 

[Just Clauz]

I respect the indies hustling out there, and wish they some day will turn the influence on the culture, but.....

I think people are really underestimating the impact of the majors and their relationships. It's like a whole nother level. It is nearly impossbile for an artist without a major, to go out and perform, shoot a video, and working in the studio, at the same time he needs to find bookers, tour bus managers, interviewers, journalists, talk shows and propably many more sections in the industry. Tech9 did it, but it took him over 20 years and he isn't even big enough to be called a superstar.

At the same time some are on majors but are not being pushed. That has propably nothing to do with majors not having the resources, but more about the artists who are unable to take part in the process themselves, and don't have the buisness-mind to know when they are being hustled by their own people.

Man, this industry is for some hard motherf**kers, the weak ones don't stand a chance lol

 

[j.troup]

You think it can't happen without a major?

Cute Meme's don't strengthen your position, sir.


Do Doom and Black Milk have relationships at ESPN?

Doubtful.


Do they have songs spinning on the radio, or amassing millions of Youtube hits so that they are popular enough to the masses for ESPN to want them, to appeal to their "urban" audiences?

Nope.




That's my point.



You keep using words like "i think, I feel, I bet, and probably".


You're dreaming. You don't know, because you haven't had the experience.



There's only SO FAR independence can take you. Look at Macklemore. In order for him to BREAK THROUGH, he needed a major. Once he got with the major, then he reached SUPERSTAR status (even though they played the role like they weren't involved with a major, to make purists like yourself jump on their team).



The majors used to control whether your music was available to the masses....aka DISTRIBUTION...well the internet and Youtube took care of that.


Now, they control they control the super-highway to the public's eyes and ears.



That's just a fact of the business. You want to get into the eyes and ears of the public QUICK AND OFTEN, then you need a major.



Relationships > Everything

 

[j.troup]

I respect the indies hustling out there, and wish they some day will turn the influence on the culture, but.....

I think people are really underestimating the impact of the majors and their relationships. It's like a whole nother level. It is nearly impossbile for an artist without a major, to go out and perform, shoot a video, and working in the studio, at the same time he needs to find bookers, tour bus managers, interviewers, journalists, talk shows and propably many more sections in the industry. Tech9 did it, but it took him over 20 years and he isn't even big enough to be called a superstar.

At the same time some are on majors but are not being pushed. That has propably nothing to do with majors not having the resources, but more about the artists who are unable to take part in the process themselves, and don't have the buisness-mind to know when they are being hustled by their own people.

Man, this industry is for some hard motherf**kers, the weak ones don't stand a chance lol

The majors don't MAKE stars. They don't have the resources for that anymore.


You have to make yourself a star, by getting yourself "warm". Get a buzz going. Get yourself some hot music that people are feeling.


Then it's the Majors job to take your star and LAUNCH IT INTO THE STRATOSPHERE WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE IT.


It's the artists job to keep their star HOT and BRIGHT...by putting out new, hot music. By taking advantage of the opportunities that the Majors bring to them.


The minute the artist rests on their heels and lets their star cool off and dim, the label will let it fall from the sky, and go launch another star.




Same thing happened with this guy from Cincinnati...Lantana.






He got warm with his mixtape and videos. Got signed to Def Jam. Had moderate success with his single. Got a remix with Bun B, Pusha T and Jeezy. Was getting radio play, even a feature / appearance on 106 & Park...



THEN HE STOPPED WORKING.



No new single. No new music. No new nothing.



I guess he expected the label to somehow to do all the work to keep him hot.



WRONG.



And now he's back at home. With that little money that he made. Still trying to get appearance/show money off that song.



Meanwhile the club owners are bringing in the likes of Cam'ron and Dipset to do shows...because they have the catalog...even though they ain't been hot for a LONG time...their MAJOR LABEL catalog can still pack out the house.

 

[yokuzin]

Do Doom and Black Milk have relationships at ESPN?

You talk like it's textbook that the only way to get to ESPN is through a major and it's relationship like it's the ONLY relationship. Like the majors are the only ones that have a key to that door. You can't name any artist that isn't HOT who is signed to a major label to get an interview with ESPN either.......that's my point. Why does it have to be artist who are hot already? I'm pretty sure throughout the span of ESPN that a few indies and unsigned artist who are sports fans have had quick little interviews also.