Dr. Luke and the Art of Stealing Music/Manipulating Your Artists

wildinout8

wildinout8

Moderator
I know many people on this site, including mods, are huge fans of Dr. Luke and praise his "genius" any chance they can. Yes - he's created tons of mega-hits and his ear for music is undeniable. But, where do you draw the line for Creativity and Plagiarism? He also is in the news for being sued by Ke$ha for mental abuse and sexual assault.

What are your thoughts on him and the idea coming out that this is just another day in the office in the music industry, no new thought is original and only the snakes, sociopaths and manipulators make it to Legendary status?

Article on Dr. Lukes history of suing artists who claim he stole their songs
Why Music Producer Dr. Luke Sues People Who Claim He Copies Songs (Analysis) - Hollywood Reporter

Site where you can compare songs that sound like they were plagiarized (Dr. Luke is all over it)
That Song Sounds Like
 
What I find disturbing is the fact that few to no people in the industry are willing to address the hypersexual nature of the business which is a microcosm of society overall and how women have no middle ground in the battle as if a woman plays a certain part she sells but at the same time is called derogatory names and if she refuses to play the part she is seen as asexual or worse, a lesbian.

Charli XCX on treatment of women in music: 'Society needs to change' - Music News - Digital Spy
 
boombapdame said:
What I find disturbing is the fact that few to no people in the industry are willing to address the hypersexual nature of the business which is a microcosm of society overall and how women have no middle ground in the battle as if a woman plays a certain part she sells but at the same time is called derogatory names and if she refuses to play the part she is seen as asexual or worse, a lesbian.

Charli XCX on treatment of women in music: 'Society needs to change' - Music News - Digital Spy
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I completely agree, Boombap.

I had to go to Best Buy the other night to pick up a new hard drive for my laptop and my girlfriend, who like me never goes to Best Buy, happened to buy the Miley Cyrus CD.
First off - the CD isn't trash and Mike Will didn't overly impress me. But, what really caught my attention were the album "art" and lyrics...triflin!

My gf and I got into the discussion of Why do you need to be overtly sexual to make music as a woman - why can't you just make less money and be happy as a classy talented woman? And why do you need to be so over the top with it?? It's the same school of thought for why certain races don't like black people because they associate all of us to the rap music they hear on the radio. If that's your thing and it makes you happy, then that's cool. But many men will then associate all women to the behavior they see in the media especially pop stars.

If all women agreed to not do this behavior, then the men of the industry would not be able to sell it.
 
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wildinout8 said:
What do you mean?
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People act as if copying from other artists is new. Everybody copies from somebody else. He copied and got successful. Now people want to make Dr. Luke into a bad person. He is only working hard and making amazing music. Too many people like to build someone up and then tear them down. People act like he is committing identity theft or some vicious crime.
 
Desire Inspires said:

People act as if copying from other artists is new. Everybody copies from somebody else. He copied and got successful. Now people want to make Dr. Luke into a bad person. He is only working hard and making amazing music. Too many people like to build someone up and then tear them down. People act like he is committing identity theft or some vicious crime.
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I agree to an extent that people def like to build others up as high as they can so they can enjoy the long fall down.

But, I really can't respect someone for repeatedly copying other's music especially if it is blatant. I am not saying that is what Dr. Luke is doing since I haven't heard one of the comparisons that people have brought up. But, if that is the case and he is stealing (and I do consider it stealing) then I have a problem with that.

Would you be okay if you spent 2 years working on an album - your life's work - and then Dr. Luke ripped them joints off BLATANTLY and made a few million dollars off of it AND THEN sued YOU for pointing out his songs sound exactly like yours?
 
Desire Inspires said:
​I would only have a problem if I made less money.
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In the cases cited against Dr. Luke in the article you would be making NO money and whatever songs you created that could be potential hits or have the most mainstream appeal are no longer yours since the whole world heard Luke's first.
 
wildinout8 said:
I agree to an extent that people def like to build others up as high as they can so they can enjoy the long fall down.

But, I really can't respect someone for repeatedly copying other's music especially if it is blatant. I am not saying that is what Dr. Luke is doing since I haven't heard one of the comparisons that people have brought up. But, if that is the case and he is stealing (and I do consider it stealing) then I have a problem with that.

Would you be okay if you spent 2 years working on an album - your life's work - and then Dr. Luke ripped them joints off BLATANTLY and made a few million dollars off of it AND THEN sued YOU for pointing out his songs sound exactly like yours?
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Is there any producer who doesn't do it though? lol... I mean, what do you call sampling then?
That shit is just straight jacking if we want to get down to it.

I remember when i first understood the concept of sampling and somehow ended up hearing
all of my favorite producers on youtube and how some just jacked the sample, tweaked it a little
bit and put some drums over it... i was devastated lmao.

I use to actually think Timbaland use to create these melodies from scratch... like it came from
some divine source and dude was there in the studio knocking shit out like a modern day Mozart lol.

Of course though, now, i have a new level of respect for it because sampling in itself is an artform
and some producers do flip samples in incredible ways but man the first time i heard it? I wasn't ready
for it lol.

I wouldn't be mad if i made something and someone copied or sampled me, as long as a check is
cut... be my guest.
 
Speaking of Timbaland, this due bit himself. He used the same drum patterns on both of these songs. They both were hits.

This is why he is Timbo the King. LMFAO!!!



-

 
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Zonic said:
Is there any producer who doesn't do it though? lol... I mean, what do you call sampling then?
That shit is just straight jacking if we want to get down to it.
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There is a HUGE difference between sampling and jacking - difference is the original artists not only gets credit, but gets paid for the sample clearance.

Just Blaze had to pay $100,000 just for the Supertramp sample in the Fabolous song Breathe to the point where he didn't make one cent off the song.

Jacking is what Pharrell did for Blurred Lines where he isn't giving Marvin Gaye any credit or money for a blatant steal (inspiration).
 
wildinout8 said:
Jacking is what Pharrell did for Blurred Lines where he isn't giving Marvin Gaye any credit or money for a blatant steal (inspiration).
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Every time you make a song you're stealing. Marvin Gaye was also inspired by something, most of the times he just managed to hide it a little bit better.
 
wildinout8 said:
There is a HUGE difference between sampling and jacking - difference is the original artists not only gets credit, but gets paid for the sample clearance.

Just Blaze had to pay $100,000 just for the Supertramp sample in the Fabolous song Breathe to the point where he didn't make one cent off the song.

Jacking is what Pharrell did for Blurred Lines where he isn't giving Marvin Gaye any credit or money for a blatant steal (inspiration).
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Yea but just because there's money involved it doesn't make it any better lol.

Sampling and Jacking are pretty much the same thing, it just so happens that the
term sampling is a politically correct word for "stealing" lmao.

Let's call it what it is...

A producer hears an old track, he cuts up a piece and uses it to make a new one...

Of course there's an art to sampling but it is what it is. A lot of producers aren't as
impressive without sampling which says a lot in itself.
 
Zonic said:
Yea but just because there's money involved it doesn't make it any better lol.

Sampling and Jacking are pretty much the same thing, it just so happens that the
term sampling is a politically correct word for "stealing" lmao.
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That's like saying "buying something" and "stealing" are pretty much the same thing, it just so happens that "buying something" is a politically correct word for "stealing"...what????
 
stokeI said:
Every time you make a song you're stealing.
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SMH

I've never once gone into my lab and thought, "Hmmm let me make a beat that is EXACTLY the same as this song I already know and then call it my own original creation".

I'm really wondering about the "creative" process and motivations some of these cats have in making music. You dudes really turn on your computers and physically work to make songs that are clear copies of other songs????
 
Zonic said:
Is there any producer who doesn't do it though? lol... I mean, what do you call sampling then?
That shit is just straight jacking if we want to get down to it.

I remember when i first understood the concept of sampling and somehow ended up hearing
all of my favorite producers on youtube and how some just jacked the sample, tweaked it a little
bit and put some drums over it... i was devastated lmao.
Click to expand...

Dude sounds like you just talking shit out you're mouth, and no nothing about sampling. And for the rest of you who are also in the dark abouy sampling or are a newbie to hip hop and just talking out your ass, let me fill you in...

Sampling isnt just taking a loop and just adding drums. See some people like myself will sometimes lay out different sounds from different records
and put them together on one track. I call this puzzle sampling. You may,have a horn that you like with a eerie violin, mixed with a chorus that you found.

Other way is choppin a sample making it totally different to make it a brand new track with new arragement. Or even grabbing a snip of a sound and totally making it sound nothing like original.

Sure some of us use loops but have YOU! ever gone digging for hours after work looking through records pretty much on your knees cuz some places keep record crates on the ground. Spent a shit load of money and time just to come up with nothing on some days. Yeah man digging takes time you don't just magically pick up any record grab the loop and make a hit. Takes dedication. See that track doesn't just make itself you gotta put in work, make the track happen, if you know what i mean.
 
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Dj4Shure said:
Sampling isnt just taking a loop and just adding drums.
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Actually, it is a lot of times.

I don't know why sample-based producers act as if they are some kind of jazz artists or alchemists turning lead into gold. Most producers that sample find a group of samples to put together, lay over some drums and a bass line, and a new song is made. It really is that simple in most records.

All of that artsy-fartsy talk about putting together a puzzle is just trying to glorify the process. In the end, it is taking other people's music, looping it, and calling it something new. That is what hip-hop sampling is. Simple as pie.
 
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Desire Inspires said:

Actually, it is a lot of times.

I don't know why sample-based producers act as if they are some kind of jazz artists or alchemists turning lead into gold. Most producers that sample find a group of samples to put together, lay over some drums and a bass line, and a new song is made. It really is that simple in most records.

All of that artsy-fartsy talk about putting together a puzzle is just trying to glorify the process. In the end, it is taking other people's music, looping it, and calling it something new. That is what hip-hop sampling is. Simple as pie.
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You're funny man. It's like you're always against pure hip hop. You're so offensive to sampling but yet look up the people (dj mustard) that just play the same 3 or 4 keys (different synth) throw the same drums, add the famous "HEY" in there, add a shitty rapper, and you got a hit.

Id rather hear kendrick Lamar- Love myself. I mean that sample is so easy that you could've came up with the idea first right?

Amd for the record i rap, and have my own unique voice. I would never try and copy someone else voice just to make a dollar f#@k that. But hey you make you're money man, I'm sure you're making it big, the way you seem to talk.
 
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Dj4Shure said:
Dude sounds like you just talking shit out you're mouth, and no nothing about sampling. And for the rest of you who are also in the dark abouy sampling or are a newbie to hip hop and just talking out your ass, let me fill you in...

Sampling isnt just taking a loop and just adding drums. See some people like myself will sometimes lay out different sounds from different records
and put them together on one track. I call this puzzle sampling. You may,have a horn that you like with a eerie violin, mixed with a chorus that you found.

Other way is choppin a sample making it totally different to make it a brand new track with new arragement. Or even grabbing a snip of a sound and totally making it sound nothing like original.

Sure some of us use loops but have YOU! ever gone digging for hours after work looking through records pretty much on your knees cuz some places keep record crates on the ground. Spent a shit load of money and time just to come up with nothing on some days. Yeah man digging takes time you don't just magically pick up any record grab the loop and make a hit. Takes dedication. See that track doesn't just make itself you gotta put in work, make the track happen, if you know what i mean.
Click to expand...

Na i know exactly what sampling is... you trying to justify the process is talking shit out YOUR mouth.

Sampling is chopping up existing records to create something new. In some cases it's more complex
puzzle piecing than others but at its core it is what it is; taking OTHER PEOPLE'S RECORDS and chopping
it up.

I'm not against it, i'm not looking down on it but to call it anything more than what it is is ridiculous.

That's like a painter chopping up the Mona Lisa and using the nose, eyes, mouth and ears to create a
collage but getting mad when someone called him out on the fact that "hey mother****er, that's cool and
all but don't forget you just cut up that Mona Lisa over there to make that shit"
 
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