Is it possible to make boom bap/ 90s type hip hop without sampling?

A

absolutezero

New member
I have been making beats for a short while now;most of them sampled. I just love the sound of boombap/90s flava beats. But my question is it even possible to get that sound without sampling? Because I find it hard sometimes to use VST's plugins like Sonik Synth,Massive, etc because IMO they just dont give me that boombap sound...maybe im not creative enough to figure out how to use those sounds for boombap beats? The only reason I even care about this because sampling is fun as hell but sometimes I want to make original songs as well but try to keep that same 'sound'. Maybe I should be trying different VSTs? If so, any suggestions? Just want to hear you guys thoughts on this.
 
Live instruments maybe? But not everyone has access to that. Desmond A's beat is a good example too. Just find some real smooth sounds that aren't extremely dynamic and can ride out like that. There's probably some VSTi's and keyboard sounds that will give you what you want.
 
Sixth said:
Live instruments maybe? But not everyone has access to that. Desmond A's beat is a good example too. Just find some real smooth sounds that aren't extremely dynamic and can ride out like that. There's probably some VSTi's and keyboard sounds that will give you what you want.
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Yea im 100% sure theres VSTs out there that would fit exactly what im talking about but I wish I knew the names of them :P
 
No VST is EVER going to beat real musicians playing real instruments in a top notch studio, mixed with warm analog gear and put on expensive tape reel.

But you can get close. The idea is to compose your own 'soul' song (or whatever genre you're trying to imitate) then chop it up and pitch shift it. The process of chopping is important because all of the things involved with it (the unnatural arrangement of the track, the pitch shifting, etc) contribute to that boom bap/90s sound.
 
ScorchinBeats said:
No VST is EVER going to beat real musicians playing real instruments in a top notch studio, mixed with warm analog gear and put on expensive tape reel.

But you can get close. The idea is to compose your own 'soul' song (or whatever genre you're trying to imitate) then chop it up and pitch shift it. The process of chopping is important because all of the things involved with it (the unnatural arrangement of the track, the pitch shifting, etc) contribute to that boom bap/90s sound.
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Its funny you say that because thats almost what I'm doing for my current song that I'm working on; instead I skipped a step; instead of composing and then chopping it up. I basically just think of a dream sample in my head and how i would like to use it and chop it; and then compose those 'Chops' instead of making a whole little melody and then chopping it up;
 
Desmond A, props on that. Sounds dope. I'm glad there are people like us who still make that good ole 90s shit.
 
You don't need live instruments you don't need vinyl sounding plugins or any of that.

all you need to do is play melodies using instruments and chop them up. Combine them with nice hard hitting drums and some good bass and your good to go.


Its how your sounds are laid out in the track. If you approach the track as a sampler does even though you are composing the lines you are going to get the same boom bap results.

Their are a lot of boom bap tracks from Pete Rock that were never sampled from records. Kev Brown has made a few simple sampling samples from vsts then filtering them and laying it down.

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ScorchinBeats said:
No VST is EVER going to beat real musicians playing real instruments in a top notch studio, mixed with warm analog gear and put on expensive tape reel.

But you can get close. The idea is to compose your own 'soul' song (or whatever genre you're trying to imitate) then chop it up and pitch shift it. The process of chopping is important because all of the things involved with it (the unnatural arrangement of the track, the pitch shifting, etc) contribute to that boom bap/90s sound.
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There a lot of good composers out there that will have you fooled. Dj Battlecat is of them. Ken Lewis is another. The guy recreates samples for blaze and kanye and is always in court over sample clearances because he remakes sound that dead on.

Most of the time People can't tell a good composition from an older sound when its coming from the right person. Dj Khalil fools engineers all the time and he creates samples in Reason
 
You know, my latest beat was made from scratch, but I might start using that technique in the future. Compose first, then chop. Strange, when I first joined FP I was so against sampling LOL. But I'm gonna start sampling my own compositions ;)
 
trumindz said:
You know, my latest beat was made from scratch, but I might start using that technique in the future. Compose first, then chop. Strange, when I first joined FP I was so against sampling LOL. But I'm gonna start sampling my own compositions ;)
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I've been doing that for a minute. Hasn't really worked out though..

And @ Cyko, you're right it's probably possible. Unless there's guitar in the music. Guitar is absolutely impossible to model very well. But either way, it takes a LOT of work and it's an artform and field of expertise in itself IMO.
 
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ScorchinBeats said:
I've been doing that for a minute. Hasn't really worked out though..

And @ Cyko, you're right it's probably possible. Unless there's guitar in the music. Guitar is absolutely impossible to model very well. But either way, it takes a LOT of work and it's an artform and field of expertise in itself IMO.
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Guitars are quite simple to mimic once you sit and understand what is needed for the ears

Deck hits
finger slides
string bending
the initial pluck of your finger releasing the string

just those basic things to the ear it will sound realistic vs just playing a stock patch.

Reason sampletank and Ni actually have some amazing guitars the problem is most people don't understand how a guitar is played so they approach it from a keyboard/piano players perspective.
It doesn't take a lot of work these days as most of the sound libraries have live multisample instruments so all a person would need to do is breakdown the mechanics of how the guitar sounds when played.

Let me know what you are using to create because this is really simple to do i'l help you.
 
Cyko said:
Deck hits
finger slides
string bending
the initial pluck of your finger releasing the string
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Trust me there is MUCH MUCH more to guitar playing than that.

Age of the strings, thickness of the strings, pickup selection, angle of the pick to the fretboard, type of pick, thickness of pick, strength of pluck in vertical direction, strength of pluck in horizontal direction (all to do with position and attack of the picking hand), where on the fretboard the finger is, fret noises, etc

And then on top of all those nuances, there is the playing/picking style. Tapping, sweeping, pull offs/hammer ons. The fluidity of a real guitar vs a modeled one. This is all very technical, but even the SOUL of the playing. I have not heard a vst guitar that sounds realistic. EVER. Tell me when somebody pulls of Steve Vai in a virtual instrument:



The better you become at an instrument, the more you understand how terrible sampled instruments are compared to the real thing. I'm sure a trumpet player could say the same about modeled trumpets.
 
ScorchinBeats said:
Trust me there is MUCH MUCH more to guitar playing than that.

Age of the strings, thickness of the strings, pickup selection, angle of the pick to the fretboard, type of pick, thickness of pick, strength of pluck in vertical direction, strength of pluck in horizontal direction (all to do with position and attack of the picking hand), where on the fretboard the finger is, fret noises, etc

And then on top of all those nuances, there is the playing/picking style. Tapping, sweeping, pull offs/hammer ons. The fluidity of a real guitar vs a modeled one. This is all very technical, but even the SOUL of the playing. I have not heard a vst guitar that sounds realistic. EVER. Tell me when somebody pulls of Steve Vai in a virtual instrument:



The better you become at an instrument, the more you understand how terrible sampled instruments are compared to the real thing. I'm sure a trumpet player could say the same about modeled trumpets.
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Notice I said “Just those basic things to the ear will sound realistic vs just playing with a simple patch”

and I'm talking about "mimicing" not creating a dead on exact match

I'm fully aware of all goes into the recreation of a guitar as I do play this instrument.

A lot of what you're mentioning isn't really heard in the music especially when the other instruments are meshed together with it then its sampled and filtered. No one is listening that close.

I know I don't listen to a record going... “mmm yea... that's a thick string right there... holding that neck prrretty high”

But I get your point emulating those elements are tedious a ****. My point is getting a realistic sound guitar or any other instrument is not complicated unless you are trying to have control over every aspect of the sound which is not needed to that extent.


Funny you mention trumps I had a kid come in the studio waiting a session player to replay some High notes you know the ones you hear in those south tracks and kid couldn't believe the instrument didn't go that high up in octave his face was priceless
 
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ScorchinBeats said:
Tapping, sweeping
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Man I love me some sweeping. And tapping. And sweep tapping. Sickest stuff ever right there folks.



On topic, this post just makes me ask why?

Why would you make a boom bap beat without sampling?
Do you ice cream cones without ice cream in them?
 
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Inverted314 said:
Man I love me some sweeping. And tapping. And sweep tapping. Sickest stuff ever right there folks.



On topic, this post just makes me ask why?

Why would you make a boom bap beat without sampling?
Do you ice cream cones without ice cream in them?
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Check out necrophagist. Mad sweeps.

I've tried making boom bap beats without sampling. A buddy of mine wants me to help make him a boom-bap album, but I don't want to pay for sample clearances! Plus I suck at digging for rare tracks.
 
Inverted314 said:
Man I love me some sweeping. And tapping. And sweep tapping. Sickest stuff ever right there folks.



On topic, this post just makes me ask why?

Why would you make a boom bap beat without sampling?
Do you ice cream cones without ice cream in them?
Click to expand...

More money in your pocket if you can avoid samples
 
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