Kanye West: Musical Genius or Great Project Manager

forget about quincy and kanye, guys....focus on me....in like 5 years time, i'm gonna be dominating the music industry
LOL. I know u know this, the Q playing thing is over blown. He started out on the trumpet (I think he played in Lionel Hampton's band or Count Basie), but then he went to Europe and studied with some bad azz classical teacher and then he made the transition to band leader/conductor. He made his mark as a conductor/arranger.
But I digress,
"It's my party and I cry if I want to." The lady just died he wrote it but didn't play. I believe it was his first pop hit.
 
"...but...but...but, Kevin Hart's won 4 MVP's! Michael Jordan only won 5!!"

FOH don't even mention Miles Davis or Quincy Jones anymore and don't come at me unless you got some videos of WHAT DIS NINJA KANYE ACTUALLY DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R.I.P. Lesley Gore
 
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Kanye is more of a project manager versus a musical genius. He can't be compared to Quincy, at least not now. Although, Quincy did manage/oversee a lot of projects but still, his level of musical genius is well beyond Kanye.
 
LOL. I know u know this, the Q playing thing is over blown. He started out on the trumpet (I think he played in Lionel Hampton's band or Count Basie), but then he went to Europe and studied with some bad azz classical teacher and then he made the transition to band leader/conductor. He made his mark as a conductor/arranger.
But I digress,
"It's my party and I cry if I want to." The lady just died he wrote it but didn't play. I believe it was his first pop hit.

Q was a vice president of Mercury records, he produced it, he didn't write it

lesley-gore-its-my-party-mercury.jpg
 
Can I ask why you guys are making a big deal about Kanye and this Quincy guy? So many producers make better stuff and their stuff isn't 90% sample from another song.

Look at Alex Da Kid's stuff, his stuff destroy Kanye's tracks:

 
How are people in this thread not going to recognize the originality of MBDTF and Yeezus? They might not be your favorite albums of his, and they might be too brash for some taste's, but there's no international pop star putting out such material that counters the limited creativity and freedom's of pop music like Kanye West.

I'm not one of those people who is going to say Kanye West is the greatest artist of all time (though he really is ranked somewhere in that list), but in all truth, he has had 6 solo albums that have all been distinctly diverse from one another. He's spent most of his career trying to find new sounds and has always executed them superbly and successfully. He has also collaborated with dozens of legendary musicians and been able to not be overshadowed by them.
 
"...but...but...but, Kevin Hart's won 4 MVP's! Michael Jordan only won 5!!"

FOH don't even mention Miles Davis or Quincy Jones anymore and don't come at me unless you got some videos of WHAT DIS NINJA KANYE ACTUALLY DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R.I.P. Lesley Gore



 
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How are people in this thread not going to recognize the originality of MBDTF and Yeezus? They might not be your favorite albums of his, and they might be too brash for some taste's, but there's no international pop star putting out such material that counters the limited creativity and freedom's of pop music like Kanye West.

I'm not one of those people who is going to say Kanye West is the greatest artist of all time (though he really is ranked somewhere in that list), but in all truth, he has had 6 solo albums that have all been distinctly diverse from one another. He's spent most of his career trying to find new sounds and has always executed them superbly and successfully. He has also collaborated with dozens of legendary musicians and been able to not be overshadowed by them.

I see what you're saying and those are def all points that put Kanye in a higher echelon than most in my book.

...but, there are thousands of producers and musicians out there that push the envelope as well that we don't hear on the radio. I mean, I hear brilliant producers on this site that aren't afraid to make music other than trap and actually use real instrumentation other that synths and that alone is pushing the envelope nowadays.
 


Son...really?? I hope you posted these to show that Kanye really lets everyone else do their magic and then he'll come and spit somethin over top.

That first video (which I've seen before) is Kanye from over 10 years ago chopping a soul sample (shocker) slower than my 14 year old nephew could and then magically there are drums and he's doing his dance in the studio surrounded by yes-men. What ever happened to that track anyway? The second half of the video is music software promotion that has nothing to do with anything.

The second video (which I've also seen before so you literally typed in "Kanye in the studio" and chose a couple of the top videos) is him performing songs as a conductor works with her orchestra. So, again, I'm not seeing Kanye's genius or what he actually does. Did he write out the notation for the celloists? Did he audition the violinists? The only thing I really saw he coordinate was his outfit and "the red" makeup.
 
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name one hit song that was written by quincy jones... name one hit song on which quincy jones played an instrument? :hmmm:

P.Y.T. is Written, Composed and Arranged by Quincy as are tons of other hits.

If we're going to confuse PLAYING THE INSTRUMENT with COMPOSING, then Mozart was useless.
 
P.Y.T. is Written, Composed and Arranged by Quincy as are tons of other hits.

If we're going to confuse PLAYING THE INSTRUMENT with COMPOSING, then Mozart was useless.

James Ingram wrote PYT, Quincy only came up with the song's title.

Mr. INGRAM: This "P.Y.T." comes from Quincy Jones, coming back with - he's married to Peggy Lipton, and her lingerie said pretty young things. So Quincy had the title "Pretty Young Thing: Tender Loving Care," and he put a lot of writers on it. And when I came up to his house, I had a track, and I had some of the lyrics, and this is what he heard.
Mr. INGRAM: (Singing) Where did you come from, baby? Oh, won't you take me there right away? Won't you, baby? (Unintelligible). I wanna love you, pretty young…

Mr. INGRAM: Quincy said, we're cutting this tomorrow, just like that.

You seem to only give props to writers and musicians who played on the record without realizing the importance of a good producer. That's why you criticize Kanye for doing the exact same things Quincy did throughout most of his career, things that made Q legendary
 
James Ingram wrote PYT, Quincy only came up with the song's title.



You seem to only give props to writers and musicians who played on the record without realizing the importance of a good producer. That's why you criticize Kanye for doing the exact same things Quincy did throughout most of his career, things that made Q legendary

...only thing is no one has proof Kanye is doing anything other than choppin samples, talkin sideways out of his mouth and then rappin over a beat.

Personnel online says different than your story too: P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please...I'm begging you...show me some proof of what this dude does.

And, back to the original reason I made this post that has somehow turned into a Quincy Jones thread - is Kanye a genius or a great project manager? I say great project manager and I doubt anyone is denying that. But again - can someone who thinks Kanye is a genius show me some proof.
 
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...only thing is no one has proof Kanye is doing anything other than choppin samples, talkin sideways out of his mouth and then rappin over a beat.

Personnel online says different than your story too: P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please...I'm begging you...show me some proof of what this dude does.

And, back to the original reason I made this post that has somehow turned into a Quincy Jones thread - is Kanye a genius or a great project manager? I say great project manager and I doubt anyone is denying that. But again - can someone who thinks Kanye is a genius show me some proof.

I think I buy the Ingram narrative better. Q had a whole crew of regular artists he worked with and Ingram was a good song writer who was on his label.

But back to your central point, Kanye is as much of a genius as any hip-hop producer over the last 25 years (the neptunes and Tombo are the only people I out on that level).

Calling someone a genius can be contested, but Ye's catalog in terms of production is crazy.

Deranged posed a question about being compared to other great sample producers, and I can honestly say Ye's catalog is probably stronger than anyone (sample cats) outside of maybe Dilla(who I do think was a genius).

It's funny you talk about project managers, but I happen to think My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy was his masterpiece and he worked with a gang of cats on their. Q worked with a gang of cats on his best stuff, Marvin's best stuff was with a gang of cats, and I don't think it takes anything from the genius of the artists.

Now If u ask me if Kanye is on Stevie, Prince, or Babyface's level I would say hell no.
 
Also, sometimes "producer" mean the person was responsible for having the song or album put out, the person must not necessarily be in the studio doing all the recording and mixing of the artist. That's the engineers job. Maybe the producer was telling the engineers to do this and do that, the producer may not necessarily know a thing about multi track equipment. Sometimes a producer functions as both producer and recording engineer. Sometimes a big shot producer (who has no clue about tracking) just wants their name on the record for credit and being responsible for the whole project and product but pretty much the ones responsible for tracking and pressing buttons in the studios are the engineers and mixers. Sometimes they go uncredited as they get paid by their studio set fees.

I was in a compilation CD which had a person credited as producer (the person was responsible for the whole project being put together plus also owned the label). That person was never there with me in the studio. I was there. I made the songs. The producer is simply the one responsible for the project and putting it out there. We live in different states and so are the other artists in the CD compilation yet the person who put out the CD was credited as "Producer". This leads to confusion sometimes because people are going to think this "producer" is all knowing and genius. Other examples of deceit: Comedians do not write their jokes, they buy them yet they come across as geniuses. Another one: Obama's speechwriters make him look like an orator. You get where this is going? There are lots of deceitful acts out there such as the Grammy's, The Hollywood Walk of Fame, maybe even The Billboard charts. From what I understand you can actually buy a spot on The Hollywood Walk of Fame. Don't get me started with the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame. It's also pay-to-play.

I was also in a tribute album CD to a well known artist. For me to get in that CD, I paid $100 for 1 song I covered. So if there's a dozen artists there that's $1200, that pays for the CD project to be put out. All it does is it gives me credit for my resume and bragging rights that I was in a CD compilation or tribute album CD put out by such and such record label. Pay to play...

I think "director" is another tricky label. You really think Angeline Jolie knows anything about technology yet she is credited as director in her movies. She might have the main say as to how the scene needs to be played out but the cameramen, screenwriters, editors, lighting, etc behind the scenes are what created the final product (with her say). The director is simply the one responsible for directing how the project is going to go and so on. It doesn't mean they are creative geniuses. Same could be said about Kanye or Quincy. I don't even know much about P. Diddy. As dumb as he looks, I doubt he knows how to use a remote.

There should be a difference between a "Producer" and a "Recorded by". Producer gets credit and the money (I think they call this "points") and the people who recorded the material are just locals working by the hour in a studio that was rented by the band or artist or "producer". The producer is responsible for the project's outcome but the ones behind the boards I think are responsible for the "creative PRODUCTION outcome" of the final product.

This varies by genre. EDM artists seem to have their own studios in their bedroom which is why sometimes there is no such thing as a "producer" credited because the artists themselves made their own albums. Although sometimes the head of the label may want their ego stroked and put their name on the CD as "producer", a broad term. True, they put out the CD but were they in the studio doing all the creativity?

Another example of being "broad", Leslie Gore may be known for the "It's My Party" song, but those 3 people credited in parenthesis were the ones responsible for writing it. They got credit and the royalties. Leslie got the fame, not sure how her royalties are distributed (performance royalty maybe, but not songwriter royalty?).

Q was a vice president of Mercury records, he produced it, he didn't write it

lesley-gore-its-my-party-mercury.jpg
 
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I think I buy the Ingram narrative better. Q had a whole crew of regular artists he worked with and Ingram was a good song writer who was on his label.

But back to your central point, Kanye is as much of a genius as any hip-hop producer over the last 25 years (the neptunes and Tombo are the only people I out on that level).

Calling someone a genius can be contested, but Ye's catalog in terms of production is crazy.

Deranged posed a question about being compared to other great sample producers, and I can honestly say Ye's catalog is probably stronger than anyone (sample cats) outside of maybe Dilla(who I do think was a genius).

It's funny you talk about project managers, but I happen to think My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy was his masterpiece and he worked with a gang of cats on their. Q worked with a gang of cats on his best stuff, Marvin's best stuff was with a gang of cats, and I don't think it takes anything from the genius of the artists.

Now If u ask me if Kanye is on Stevie, Prince, or Babyface's level I would say hell no.

I can get down with this.
 
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Also, sometimes "producer" mean the person was responsible for having the song or album put out, the person must not necessarily be in the studio doing all the recording and mixing of the artist. That's the engineers job. Maybe the producer was telling the engineers to do this and do that, the producer may not necessarily know a thing about multi track equipment. Sometimes a producer functions as both producer and recording engineer. Sometimes a big shot producer (who has no clue about tracking) just wants their name on the record for credit and being responsible for the whole project and product but pretty much the ones responsible for tracking and pressing buttons in the studios are the engineers and mixers. Sometimes they go uncredited as they get paid by their studio set fees.

In your opinion, and from what you've seen posted on this thread in terms of videos of Kanye in the studio:
1) In what facet do you feel Kanye is a "producer"?
2) Do you consider him a "genius"?
 
I've never seen the videos posted here. Though from the looks of it he is simply sitting IN A STUDIO. That's about it. I do not own a Kanye CD. I only know Kanye's "Gold Digger" song and the Daft Punk song he heavily sampled to a point that the song version he did was pretty much 75% done, he just needed to re-improvised his own take on it to make it "his own" (aka sampling). I never knew Kanye as a producer but more of an artist. I think Timbaland is a producer. Like I said I do not own any of these people's CDs so I wouldn't know who is on credit on who made what and who was in the studio with them. Hip hop and R&B generally have a whole entourage working on a song and the whole album in general.

"Genius" is what you make of it. Some people think Adolf Hitler is a genius (if you think so then he is, but if you don't think so then you don't think so). If Kanye was not on a major label, he'd be just one whack indie hip hop artist trying to blame society.

It is VENTURE CAPITAL that made him appear genuine. Major corporation MEETS up and coming artist they can exploit = venture capital. If it blows up in the mainstream the artist is viewed as "awesome" but not the corporate machine behind him. If the artist on a major label didn't blow up, he/she gets dropped, no one gets called a genius despite the artist having great songs. All it takes is one song to blow up then you're in with the in crowd...

In your opinion, and from what you've seen posted on this thread in terms of videos of Kanye in the studio:
1) In what facet do you feel Kanye is a "producer"?
2) Do you consider him a "genius"?
 
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