Kanye West: Musical Genius or Great Project Manager

mwandishi said:
Co-Arrange and oversee the project. Do your research. Q had a team of cats he worked with on the regular since the late 70s.
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I don't need to "do...research" when I lived through this man's work.

But, since some people still don't get it:
Quincy Jones: The Man Behind The Music : NPR
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Quincy_Jones.aspx

Career: Played trumpet in Lionel Hampton and Dizzy Gillespie bands; wrote musical arrangements for Count Basie, Frank Sinatra, Sarah Vaughn and others; music director and producer, Barchlay Disques, Paris, 1956-60; Mercury Records, music director, 1961, named vice president, 1964; scored films, including: The Pawnbroker, 1965; In Cold Bloody 967; In the Heat of the Night, 1967; For Love of Ivy, 1968; Cactus Flower,1969; Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice, 1969; The Wiz, 1978; The Color Purple, 1994; scored television series:Ironside; Sanford and Son; recording artist on A&M Records, 1969-80; founded Qwest Records, 1981; produced single “We Are the World” to benefit African famine victims, 1986; founded magazine Vibe, 1993; launched multimedia joint venture QDE, 1993; released autobiography, The Autobiography of Quincy Jones.
Selected awards 25 Grammy Awards, including three as producer of Michael Jackson’s Thriller, 1982, and six for album Back on the Block, 1991; 1994 Polar Music Prize; Presented with the inaugural “Ted Arison Award” by the National Foundation for Advancement in the Arts (NFAA); Harvard Univ., established chair, The Quincy Jones Professorship of African-American Music.

...and all he did was co-arrange and oversee "the" project? My eyes of watching this cat on TV and reading him in magazines for decades as well as sources all over the internet say different...thanks for playin, though.
 
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...and can anyone post a video of Kanye doing something in the studio other than dancing/rapping to his own beats, working with samples, making drums or talkin that idish?

I just want PROOF of this genius instead of people saying their opinion because a magazine told you to say it.
 
wildinout8 said:
I don't need to "do...research" when I lived through this man's work.

But, since some people still don't get it:
Quincy Jones: The Man Behind The Music : NPR
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Quincy_Jones.aspx

Career: Played trumpet in Lionel Hampton and Dizzy Gillespie bands; wrote musical arrangements for Count Basie, Frank Sinatra, Sarah Vaughn and others; music director and producer, Barchlay Disques, Paris, 1956-60; Mercury Records, music director, 1961, named vice president, 1964; scored films, including: The Pawnbroker, 1965; In Cold Bloody 967; In the Heat of the Night, 1967; For Love of Ivy, 1968; Cactus Flower,1969; Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice, 1969; The Wiz, 1978; The Color Purple, 1994; scored television series:Ironside; Sanford and Son; recording artist on A&M Records, 1969-80; founded Qwest Records, 1981; produced single “We Are the World” to benefit African famine victims, 1986; founded magazine Vibe, 1993; launched multimedia joint venture QDE, 1993; released autobiography, The Autobiography of Quincy Jones.
Selected awards 25 Grammy Awards, including three as producer of Michael Jackson’s Thriller, 1982, and six for album Back on the Block, 1991; 1994 Polar Music Prize; Presented with the inaugural “Ted Arison Award” by the National Foundation for Advancement in the Arts (NFAA); Harvard Univ., established chair, The Quincy Jones Professorship of African-American Music.

...and all he did was co-arrange and oversee "the" project? My eyes of watching this cat on TV and reading him in magazines for decades as well as sources all over the internet say different...thanks for playin, though.
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No one is saying Q ain't a brilliant producer, arranger, musician, and writer.

Stoke said he didn't play on or write his known (recent as in the last 30 years) hits. This is true. The average person probably doesn't know about his work with big bands, writing pop hits, and scoring films and tv shows. The average person under 30, if they heard of Q, know him from his Mike Jack work and maybe we are the world.

Look at the list of musicians and the writing credits on Thriller, for example.Thriller (Michael Jackson album) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia He produced the project but did not write any of the songs. Does this make Q any less of a genius?
I mean just look at the list of musicians. You think all they did was just play, no they were part of the creative project. Rod Temperton was a key Q collab person since the 70s.
Just like Billy Strayhorn and Duke Ellington.

People trying to give Kanye a raw deal because he's working with talented cats. But if you look throughout music you'll notice dudes that are established and been in the game like to collab with other bad cats. Some people admit it and give folks their credit, and some people use ghost writers and musicians.

By the way the documentary In the Pocket is a must see for any Q fan.
 
mwandishi said:
No one is saying Q ain't a brilliant producer, arranger, musician, and writer.
People trying to give Kanye a raw deal because he's working with talented cats.
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This is why I started this thread - to get people's opinions on why Kanye is called a "genius": is it because he is creating great music or overseeing the process as great musicians create the music?

If I got Max Martin to write lyrics, Eric Clapton to compose/play guitar, Les Claypool to compose/play bass, Stevie Wonder to compose/play keys, Max Roach to compose/play drums and then I rapped over top of all of it...

...would you call me a genius or a great project manager?
 
wildinout8 said:
This is why I started this thread - to get people's opinions on why Kanye is called a "genius": is it because he is creating great music or overseeing the process as great musicians create the music?

If I got Max Martin to write lyrics, Eric Clapton to compose/play guitar, Les Claypool to compose/play bass, Stevie Wonder to compose/play keys, Max Roach to compose/play drums and then I rapped over top of all of it...

...would you call me a genius or a great project manager?
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you think jon brion made "crack music" and kanye just took it and rapped over it?

 
wildinout8 said:
This is why I started this thread - to get people's opinions on why Kanye is called a "genius": is it because he is creating great music or overseeing the process as great musicians create the music?

If I got Max Martin to write lyrics, Eric Clapton to compose/play guitar, Les Claypool to compose/play bass, Stevie Wonder to compose/play keys, Max Roach to compose/play drums and then I rapped over top of all of it...

...would you call me a genius or a great project manager?
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It depends, was your verse pure genius?

Kanyes are.

And he has a "history" of being as such with an Olympic level track record of deliberate success....

Break records at Louis
Ate breakfast at Gucci
My girl a superstar all from a home movie
Bow on our arrival the unamerican idols
What niggas did in Paris got em hanging off the Eiffel
Yeah I’m talking business
We talking CIA
I’m talking George Tenet
I seen him the other day
He asked me about my Maybach
Think he had the same
Except mine tinted and his might have been rented
You know white people get money don’t spend it
Or maybe they get money, buy a business
I rather buy 80 gold chains and go ig’nant
I know Spike Lee gon kill me but let me finish
Blame it on the pigment, we living no limits
Them gold master p ceilings was just a figment
Of our imagination, MTV cribs
Now I’m looking at a crib right next to where TC lives
That’s Tom Cruise, whatever she accuse
He wasn’t really drunk he just had a few brews
Pass the refreshment a cool cool beverage
Everything I do need a news crew presence
Speed Boat swerve homie, watch out for the waves
I’m way too black to burn from sun rays
So I just meditated the home in Pompeii
About how I could build a new Rome in one day
Every time I’m in Vegas they screaming like he’s Elvis
But I just wanna design hotels and nail it
Shit is real got me feelin’ Isrealian
Like Bar Refaeli Gisele, no that's Brazilian
Went through deep depression when my momma passed
Suicide what kind of talk is that
But I’ve been talking to God for so long
That if have you look in my life I guess he talking back
****in’ with my clique
 
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Feelin better than some head on a Sunday afternoon...
Better than a chick that say Yes too soon...
Until you have a daughter - that's what I call karma...
And you pray to God she don't grow breasts too soon - We Major
 
wildinout8 said:
If I got Max Martin to write lyrics, Eric Clapton to compose/play guitar, Les Claypool to compose/play bass, Stevie Wonder to compose/play keys, Max Roach to compose/play drums and then I rapped over top of all of it...

...would you call me a genius or a great project manager?
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Well, it depends on the end result....
Miles Davis hired Paul Chambers, Red Garland and Bill Evans, Cannonball Adderley and John Coltrane, all of whom composed parts for him in addition to music he wrote and arranged himself. The result? The greatest and most influential jazz album ever recorded. Does Miles use of talented personnel diminish the perception of his "genius", status or influence?
Funny because, if you read about Miles, him and Kanye's personalities are quite similar. Both men had no problems making enemies with their opinions and behavior.
 
Pumpthrust said:
Well, it depends on the end result....
Miles Davis hired Paul Chambers, Red Garland and Bill Evans, Cannonball Adderley and John Coltrane, all of whom composed parts for him in addition to music he wrote and arranged himself. The result? The greatest and most influential jazz album ever recorded. Does Miles use of talented personnel diminish the perception of his "genius", status or influence?
Funny because, if you read about Miles, him and Kanye's personalities are quite similar. Both men had no problems making enemies with their opinions and behavior.
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Great point, but I'm not talking about one album or a few pointers from others here and there...I'm talking about EVERY album this dude Kanye puts out it's a bunch of OTHER people doing the work and him putting his name on the final product. Miles Davis made up 99% of his material and much of it was on the fly.

People seem to be getting this all twisted. Russell Westbrook was the All Star Game MVP this weekend on a team of other all-stars...but HE HIMSELF MADE THE ALL STAR TEAM ON HIS OWN MERITS. He didn't make the team because Kevin Durant did all of the scoring. No one is calling Eric Spoelstra a "genius" because he had Lebron, Wade and Bosh on his team.
 
"I made Jesus Walks, so I'm never going to hell
Couture level flow is never going on sale
Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
I get it custom, you a customer
You ain't accustomed to going through customs
You ain't been nowhere, hah?
And all the ladies in the house got them showing off
I’m done I'll hit you up maña...nah!"

- Kanye West
 
wildinout8 said:
Great point, but I'm not talking about one album or a few pointers from others here and there...I'm talking about EVERY album this dude Kanye puts out it's a bunch of OTHER people doing the work and him putting his name on the final product. Miles Davis made up 99% of his material and much of it was on the fly.

People seem to be getting this all twisted. Russell Westbrook was the All Star Game MVP this weekend on a team of other all-stars...but HE HIMSELF MADE THE ALL STAR TEAM ON HIS OWN MERITS. He didn't make the team because Kevin Durant did all of the scoring. No one is calling Eric Spoelstra a "genius" because he had Lebron, Wade and Bosh on his team.
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I don't see what you see. Most of his older productions I see him having a rough cut finished and he plays it to get an opinion and then touches everything up. His later stuff he tended to have help on like late registration when he needed string help, he brought in Jon Brion to help with that. Other than that I usually see a pretty hands on approach especially when it comes to the direction of his music.
 
KelevraOne said:
I don't see what you see. Most of his older productions I see him having a rough cut finished and he plays it to get an opinion and then touches everything up. His later stuff he tended to have help on like late registration when he needed string help, he brought in Jon Brion to help with that. Other than that I usually see a pretty hands on approach especially when it comes to the direction of his music.
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Can you post some examples ie. videos?
 
Kanye West IMO is great at what he does. "What he does" is not production, but putting an aura around a song. Here's a series of questions, feel free to answer.

Are Kanye's sampled beats BETTER than everyone else's sample beats?
Are Kanye's Trap beats better than other trap beats?
Are Kanye's whatever the f**k you want to call them tracks better than other music in the same realms?
Are Kanye's mixes amongst the cleanest you've ever heard?
When he invites multiple artists and players into a session(All of the Lights comes to mind) does the end result sound any better than a really good band working all on their own(Fall Out Boy, Linkin Park, 30 Seconds to Mars, ect.)
Has he done records that you know deep down inside anyone with a computer in their mom's home could've made?
Even with the help of Paul McCartney, did he give Rihanna one of the top 10 best songs of her career?
If I were to ask the same questions of Quincy Jones that applied, and replace "Rihanna and Paul" with "Michael Fawking Jackson" would I get more positive responses to these questions.

Are you answering positive to all these questions simply because you're a fan?

The last question is what makes Kanye great.
 
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okay this is my first time posting on this forum and since i found a kanye thread, could you guys tell me what you think of my version of his "stronger" instrumental? the only thing i sampled from another song here was daft punk's vox thing.

 
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but in relation to the topic, nah....kanye is far from "genius"....I like a lot of his productions: Run This Town, Stronger, Power, Diamonds from Sierra Leone, Runaway, Black Skinhead, and a few others, but it's pretty much the samples from other songs that make his stuff good. so yeah, i'd say he's got good taste, but that doesn't make him a musical genius. not to mention, that in my opinion, if he had the capacity to produce at a level of genius, he would have also had the ability to rap at the level of a genius, which he doesn't have, let's be honest.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
Kanye West IMO is great at what he does. "What he does" is not production, but putting an aura around a song. Here's a series of questions, feel free to answer.

Are Kanye's sampled beats BETTER than everyone else's sample beats?
Are Kanye's Trap beats better than other trap beats?
Are Kanye's whatever the f**k you want to call them tracks better than other music in the same realms?
Are Kanye's mixes amongst the cleanest you've ever heard?
When he invites multiple artists and players into a session(All of the Lights comes to mind) does the end result sound any better than a really good band working all on their own(Fall Out Boy, Linkin Park, 30 Seconds to Mars, ect.)
Has he done records that you know deep down inside anyone with a computer in their mom's home could've made?
Even with the help of Paul McCartney, did he give Rihanna one of the top 10 best songs of her career?

Are you answering positive to all these simply because you're a fan?

The last question is what makes Kanye great.
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Great post Deranged.

Are Kanye's sampled beats BETTER than everyone else's sample beats? No - Premo, J Dilla, 9th Wonder all rank higher for me
Are Kanye's Trap beats better than other trap beats No - Shawty Redd, Lex Luger, even Superstar O rank higher for me
Are Kanye's whatever the f**k you want to call them tracks better than other music in the same realms? No
Are Kanye's mixes amongst the cleanest you've ever heard? No - Radiohead, Incubus, Brendan O'Brien, the new D'Angelo, even old school Beatles albums (not sure who mixed them) rank higher for me
When he invites multiple artists and players into a session(All of the Lights comes to mind) does the end result sound any better than a really good band working all on their own(Fall Out Boy, Linkin Park, 30 Seconds to Mars, ect.) No no no
Has he done records that you know deep down inside anyone with a computer in their mom's home could've made? He's def worked on some gems, but no
Even with the help of Paul McCartney, did he give Rihanna one of the top 10 best songs of her career? No - the song has only reached #1 in Australia, has 9 writers credited, and Paul McCartney has already stated he played the acoustic guitar, organ and cello in the song, so all Kanye did was jump on singing flat
 
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wildinout8 said:
Even with the help of Paul McCartney, did he give Rihanna one of the top 10 best songs of her career? No - the song has only reached #1 in Australia, has 9 writers credited, and Paul McCartney has already stated he played the acoustic guitar, organ and cello in the song, so all Kanye did was jump on singing flat
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name one hit song that was written by quincy jones... name one hit song on which quincy jones played an instrument? :hmmm:
 
forget about quincy and kanye, guys....focus on me....in like 5 years time, i'm gonna be dominating the music industry
 
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