Double Standard?

D

DS

Guest
i was readin up on some davey-d articles and some comments that erick sermon and others (mainly old school cats) made about the lack of creativity goin on within hip hip right now cuz i felt the need to try to get a perspective of where the other side is comin from. For a minute I thought that these people were making some good points, so I decided to listen to a few current “real” artists who’s names are brought up around here a lot and other places and I was surprised to see how much a lot of these people sounded alike. Similar vibes, same ol’ content, etc. (Particularly when I listened to some Little Brother back to back with ATCQ(yall might feel differently, just like i might about lil jon & chingy, but they basically sounded the same to me)...but those weren’t the only similarities; damn near everybody I listened to was on the same sh.t, especially with the old school) and im wondering why this stuff gets put on some kinda pedestal as if it’s the second-coming or sumthin. I was noddin my head on the first couple albums, but after awhile I spotted a trend. This current-real music or old school stuff aint nuthin but a non-famous secret-society of the same "followership" (if u will) on the radio. so what i wanna know is what makes a song creative? Jockin your underground peers rather than the mainstream. What separates 5 of these “creative” guys who might sound alike from 5 club rappers who sound alike? what makes a trend-dickrider and different from an old school/UG influence-dickrider? Simply the fact that you cant stand the radio? Mtv? Because you wanna seem different by not liking the big-stuff so you give praise to anything but? Can someone please point out to me what constitutes creativity and uniqueness, cuz I swore I was listening to one big ass compilation (especially with the old school stuff I went through). Please save all rude replys. Im just trying to get some other people’s clean thoughts on the issue. its just weird for me to see all this ego, when damn near everything can be thrown into a certain box.


Or am I just talking about sumthin completely different and this creativity-issue i hear so much about is just one of how music’s trends get in the way of the artist’s true self at times rather than just a buncha clones runnin around simply for the hell of it? :confused:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ONE80 said:
one word...........OUTKAST
Click to expand...

i'll drink to that, but what im referring to is this issue with "real" cookie-cutters vs. "fake" ones
 
I dunno if I necessarily disagree totally with your post. One thing I see alot that I can't stand, is when a guys fav UG emcee finally signs a major deal they all the sudden hate him. When he gets to that "mainstream" level, I guess they assume he is gonna sell out or somethin. In alot of cases that happens, in some it don't. Eminem is a prime example, all the "heads" peiced him in the beginning. But he blows up and gets loved by the TRL crowd everybody hates him. Kanye West too, heads were all in his sh1t when he was "just" a producer, but now that he's toppin charts as an emcee as well.. a certain dislike comes about, as if their should be animosity. So I understand there are ignorant cats out there that just wanna be different, but thats not gonna change. Fickle bandwagon people will always be here.

But the fact remains, the mainstream sh1t is trendy and non-creative IMHO. I think we all knew it before, but Ike's post on that documentary is a clear example. Its about money now, not music, not true talent, not creative minds, its about makin these CEO's richer. But for me theres a fineline between mainstream and not mainstream. So many people confuse the term with "wack" and "not wack" at times it becomes hard to single out what exactly is mainstream. But anyone who truely knows the music.. and the business that goes along with it can pinpoint.

Your gonna indeed hear similarities between LB and ATCQ. Thats how LB derived their name, they felt with their style they were like a little brother to cats like ATCQ, etc etc. But theres so much more out there. LB is good, they are like real life cats talkin bout what they see on the daily. ATCQ too, but alot of their singles catered to "doing" women. You got the extreme lyricists Canibus, Black Thought, Kweli, etc etc. You got your gangbangin murderin drug dealers boilin that crack. And yes you even got your wack niggas tryin to do the club bandwagon sh1t hopin it will get them on.

Not to say all mainstream is wack, I think most people love Jay and he still has his cred. But his singles usually are on some fly, look what I'm sportin in the club, I'm pimpin ya hoe sh1t. I mean you HAVE to know theres trends when u hear Eminem talkin about totin pistols, and gettin crunk in the club over a Trackboyz beat. Ok, I dunno how else to put this... I guess I'm rambling now. But to sum it all up, I do think "non mainstream", "underground" or whatever you wanna call them.. artists ARE more creative. But thats cuz they are ALLOWED to be. In most cases when you are signed, you become a corporate b1tch, used by all means and in all cases to make money. You got skills? Phuck that, you bout to be raped and cashed in. You got a story to tell? Phuck that, get in tha club. Even IF you do have a ploy of your own, and a creative thought that COULD possibly make money.. in most cases it won't be given a chance. Becuz its just that a POSSIBILITY, theres no definite chance you'll sell like the current trend. Who knows maybe the trend will change to somethin else soon.. but that just means all you'll hear on the radio is the same old tedious cliche sh1t.. over.. and over.. and over.. chaching chaching.. dollar signs.
 
it's all about the "I'm on some other shyt" attitude. In hip hop nobody want's to be considered on someones nut sack. And for some reason it makes people feel I'm more hip hop than you because I'm down with these people who are underground.
 
I stated this **** almost two years ago when I released a song called "**** Hip Hop Heads." I honestly think that fans shape the artist. It isn't just the corporate ****. It's the people who listens and picks up an artist's music. To me, those backpackers are doing the same **** as mainstreamers but just marketting to a different crowd.

I also learned through experience that some of the cats who are trying to make it into the mainstream are a little more honest about themselves and are more likely to be coo with you no matter what you repping, underground, otherground, mainstream, etc etc. When you try to express your views to somebody in the underground tip, they're gon be like, "**** you" under their breath if you don't confine. Check it, it makes sense that mainstream artist will have an open ear to anything because they WANT to reach out to everybody so they can make the money.

Not every fan is the same, as much as these "rebels" want to think.
 
Last edited:
Ive been thinking the exact same thing lately. The funny part is that without people like Chingy and Lil Jon, these "real" emcees would have no career. What would they talk about if they couldnt complain about the radio and major labels? And as far as mainstream music not being creative, I think its much more creative than underground stuff. Can you honestly say that the new Little Brother or whatever else is cool with the UG people is gonna break any new ground? But people like Outkast, Timbo, the Neptunes are constantly changing thier style. As far as Lil John, people like to dance. He makes them dance. End of story.
 
Bart D. said:
But people like Outkast, Timbo, the Neptunes are constantly changing thier style. As far as Lil John, people like to dance. He makes them dance. End of story.
Click to expand...

Nice post, and with all due respect...

The thing is these people can "Set the Standard" because they "Can" meaning they are established.

(Its my same argument all the time). If your established you can (for the most part) do whatever you want, and you fan base will carry you through (again, More Music, and Less Politics) in effect here.

Its like this: If David Letterman says something, even if its not funny, people will laugh, because David Letterman said it. If I was up there in his spot, and said the exact same thing, exactly the same way people will throw tomatoes at me.

Why?

Cuz I'm not Letterman, and I'm not established.

Same thing is true for the Music Indusrty, and Artists creating, and Setting standards, and creating new styles, etc, etc.


:cheers:
 
The only thing I don't like about HIP HOP right now is ... there's only one kind of HIP HOP... The bling bling party kind.

Not a lot of diversity in it... oh, there are the thug rappers but that's about as much as you get now.

I still dance to it, I danced to TIPSY and RIGHT THURR back to back last night, damn that girl was chocolate and fine... ok back to the post... oh, but don't you hate it when the ugly girl starts to stare at you and then makes her way close to you to start up a conversation... all of a sudden "I think I gotta go piss, I'll be back..." A little bit of advice for you cats, When you go to a club, holla at the baddest bytches in there. Don't waste your money. Most of the time they've intimidated all of the dudes they would talk to by turning down the dreamers. An average ho in the club looks even worse outside.... and they will always show up where you don't want them to. HEY BIGG ROME! Remember ME!!! Oh, shyt....

That CHICKENHEAD dance is a motherphukka...

The music production is much better these days if you look back and think about how many people used the same ... SAMPLES.

RAKIM is still the best to ever spit a lyric. Kool G Rap is next and he had a lisp.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree with DS for the most part. The underground scene is really nothing too unique. It the first tier of a system to the top. The bottom tier "underground" of course will have the most uniques stuff, and alot of bad stuff too. The more accepted stuff will advance to the next tier, and the underground stuff will stay where it is (unless of course someday underground stuff becomes a trend.) Since that happening is very unlikely, I think the underground artist has did the next best thing, and made and extreme underground fanbase. They are almost as dedicated as a follower of a cult. Play an radio song for a serious backpacker, and he will be dissing it the whole listen through, but if you let someone that listens to mainstream music listen to a good underground song he won't get all predjudice on it, and if it sounds good he likes it. That song will later possibly get the mainstream bucks, and backpackers won't like it.

(I would hate to see underground go mainstream, heads would be so confused on what to do. Their superiors "The Artist's" will probobly tell them the revolution is here, and heads would chill out)

The underground is more unique, but not in its totality, cuz alot of heads are doing what they believe fits in the box of being "real Hip-hop".

Now you guys, we really have to stop trying to put stuff in a commercial, underground box, and just listen to, and make what we like, F$ck all this predjudice.
 
Last edited:
DS strikes again, good thread.

I used to be in the whole Hip-Hop scene and kicking it with people with the "we're better than you all cuz our music doesn't get played on the radio cuz it doesn't suck" attitude. I was blinded thinking everything had to have the similar vibe to be Hip-Hop, and if it sounded any different, it wasn't Hip-Hop. So in a way, that's basically saying "conform to us, not to them" which is definitely a double standard.

It's been a long time since I've said "Fukk Hip-Hop, I guess I just like Rap." cuz there are too many people putting restrictions on what Hip-Hop is supposed to sound like when I coulda swore Hip-Hop was supposed to be the music of the streets and to give you insight on what they see everyday. I imagine there is more than one sort of sound/vibe in the streets, so I don't agree with those restrictions.

Anyway, I'm a beat head and I tend to favor beats with a cleaner, crisp sound so my taste for beats lean towards the mainstream. Yeah, I like it raw too but I know it'd sound better to me if it was run thru some top-of-the line equipment you'd find in million dollar studios with a hot engineer. That's just my opinion tho.
 
Dark Blue said:
Now you guys, we really have to stop trying to put stuff in a commercial, underground box, and just listen to, and make what we like, F$ck all this predjudice.
Click to expand...

exactly. it'd probably be all good if the UG/Old School lover stopped b.tchin though. rarely do you see mainstream people attacking them. i guess its just cool to bite as long as the labels arent telling you to or if the stuff isnt famous :rolleyes:
 
fools aint listening to enough music theres alot of dope underground sh!t and alot wack underground sh!t,same for mainstream even if it was 93 or 88 now its 2004 im content with what i listen to because im up on game
local hip hop from other towns and cities is dope to me i could care less if i hear a hiss on the tape thats what its about.creativity wise ive heard some dope beats and concepts but like a BORED STIFF song says"you got to be uplifting,or just shut the phuck up,cuz you aint sayin much" and if you never heard of bored stiff that means your not up on game your not searchin for dope groups or music...damn it i dont remeber what the original topic was, mybad if i went off topic.i try to give evrything a chance,and if it doesnt touch me then i hope it reaches someone else.
 
Ain't nobody on some next shyt. Hip Hop is like computers...the shyt will be obsolete right after purchasing it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top