Does Timbaland record with tape?

K

k81

Guest
I've gotten interested in recording with tape lately, and even bought a Teac 3440 reel to reel last night. After listening to nothing but countless different tape machines over the last few days trying to decide which one to get, I pretty much have that analog tape sound cemented in my ears now, lol. I listened to a few digital tracks today for the first time in a couple days, and then happened to play the Missy Elliot "Under Construction" album right afterwards, and IMO, it sounds extremely alike to all of the reel to reels I had been listening to, in terms of clarity and depth.

It seems to be most prevelant on "Wake Up", especially in the beginning of Jay's verse where the sound of a tape rewinding comes on and literally rewinds back Jay's line and repeats it. But the whole album has the sound of tape too.

I always felt there was a certain analog tape sound to Timbo's production, but I always thought it was from the ASR-10, maybe its a combo of both. Can anybody confirm if he records with tape?

I know a lot of producers mixdown to tape, but the "U.C." album sounds more like the opposite, like it was actually recorded to tape, then mixed down to Pro Tools. Which will produce a better overall sound generally.
 
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K81 where did you buy that Teac 3440 from and how much did that cost you. I was looking to get a tape machine last winter but had a hard time finding one that was in good condition.
 
Wouldn't it crazy if your assumption was completely wrong.
Nobody on this board knows how Timbo get down with his music.
 
JREID said:
K81 where did you buy that Teac 3440 from and how much did that cost you. I was looking to get a tape machine last winter but had a hard time finding one that was in good condition.
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I got mine on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330465028271&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

They have a ton for sale in all brands. And there are many that are in excellent condition and have been professionally restored. They cost a bit more, but imo, its worth it in the long run.

And because there doesn't seem to be a huge demand for them, you can talk them down in price. The one I got was listed at $499 "buy it now", with no "offer" option, but I emailed him and offered $295 and he took it.

You can get some much cheaper, but they either haven't been truly tested or have known issues. I wouldn't get one unless it was completely tested in/out and 100% in working order, unless you know how to fix them.

Were you looking for a multitrack or mixdown "2 track" deck?

If you look hard enough you can find one in your price range that suits your needs. If you need any help choosing one, let me know. I did a lot of research over the last week on just about every pro/semi-pro brand/model, and have downloaded a number of different manuals with all the specs, as well as got a lot of good advice from professional service techs here and there. So I might be able to pass some along.

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Cash_Daily said:
Wouldn't it crazy if your assumption was completely wrong.
Nobody on this board knows how Timbo get down with his music.
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Not sure I understand what your first sentence means, but I didn't expect someone on here to have worked with timbaland personally. I was talking about maybe someone had an article or interview where he talks about using tape. I don't see how recording with tape is some trade secret, its just uncommon today. I remember an article when either U.C. or the next Missy album came out where he talked about wanting to capture a raw old school sound, so they used all old, analog drum machines. So I don't think it would be that unusual that they also used the same recording medium that was used back then.
 
K81 thanks for your response. I would like to get a 8 track or at less a 4 track. Can you recommend a pro model 8 or 4 track deck ?
 
k81 said:
I was talking about maybe someone had an article or interview where he talks about using tape. I don't see how recording with tape is some trade secret, its just uncommon today. I remember an article when either U.C. or the next Missy album came out where he talked about wanting to capture a raw old school sound, so they used all old, analog drum machines. So I don't think it would be that unusual that they also used the same recording medium that was used back then.
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I'm sure he samples his sounds and stores them.







He was on 106 a few years back with his ASR (personally haven't had the opportunity to sample on it)
 
Wouldn't surprise me if he was. Alot of his tracks have a real warm sound to them. Could be tape saturation plug-ins too.
 
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^ I dunno man i can't explain it some of the tracks he produces just have a warm feel to them.


For example:



Most likely plug-ins though.
 
that album came out in '02,around that time pro tools started becoming the industry standard.so yeah...they probably used tape.
 
JREID said:
K81 thanks for your response. I would like to get a 8 track or at less a 4 track. Can you recommend a pro model 8 or 4 track deck ?
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Different brands seem to have different sounds, so you should try to listen to some demo videos on youtube and whatnot. Depending on how much you can afford, a Tascam 80-8 or Tascam 38-8 are great 8 tracks, and the Tascam 40-4 and 34-4 are pretty much the 4 track versions, respectively. The A-3440 and A3340 are like a half step below the 40-4 and 34-4, I think. One of the main differences of these 8 tracks vs 4 tracks, besides the number of tracks, is that the 8 tracks use 1/2" tape as opposed to 1/4" for the 4 tracks, I think. The bigger the tape, the better the sound, but also the more expensive for each blank tape.

Whatever you get, a good pro 8/4 track deck should have 10.5" reels, at least 15 ips tape speed, and 1/2" - 1/4" tape, respectively. Basically, the faster the speed, the better the quality. 15 ips is said to be pro standard level. The 7.5 ips decks were made for the consumer level, like just for home stereo use, so really anything at 15ips or above is considered pro, I think.

I've read that the Doobie Brothers and Boston used the 80-8 a lot on their albums of the mid-late 70's. And what some consider the best reggae/dub album of all time -"Heart of Congos" produced by Lee Perry was recorded entirely on the A-3340, which is the little brother to the A-3440.

Some brands like Studer, Ampex, and Revox are top of the line I think, and above Tascam/Teac, but very expensive. Also, keep in mind you might need a mixing board to mix the tracks if you want, but I'm pretty sure you can track out into your DAW for mixing too, which is probably what I'm going to do.

btw, there's a great A-3340 (4 track) on ebay right now in excellent condition that I wanted to buy, but was little more than I had to spend, so I went with 3440 when I got a discount. The A-3340 was the most popular 4 track-multitrack recorders for home-studios in the 70's.

Keep in mind when looking that "4 track" doesn't necessarily mean that its a multitrack. It has to be "4 channel", so make sure thats it is. I say this because a lot of the low-end consumer decks are called 4 tracks, but really aren't. It needs to be "4 channel". Likewise, you don't want to get an 8-track recorder and find out its an 8 track cartridge deck, lol. Make sure it is "8 channel".

All the ones I mentioned above are 8 or 4 channels, I just called them "tracks" for short.

Here's the A-3340 -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230513988582&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It really looks like its in amazing condition and fair priced, but see if you can talk him down, if your interested. I'd do more research though and decide what you want, 8 or 4, before buying, but if you want a quality 4 channel, you might not find one in better condition for any price. It almost looks new in the box, which is stunning to me being made in '72.

If your really interested in that model, I have some demo videos I founf on youtube of the model, where you can get an idea of its sound, but its kind of hard to tell on youtube videos.
 
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MUSIKFIEND said:
^Have you made any music using it yet??
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Not yet, I just ordered it last night, should be here by next week, and I'll post something once I get everything set up.

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Wha Chu Mean said:
Oh I might have misunderstood.
Did you mean for overall saturation or on his instruments?
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Yeah, on his instruments. To me it kinda sounds like maybe he pre-recorded midi sequences done on his asr-10/triton and then recorded the output onto tape one track at a time on separate channels, then all bounced to a daw for mixdown and mastering. idk, i'm just guessing, he could've done it the other way, just done everything in the daw, run it through the tape once for saturation/effect and bounced back like a lot of producers today do. But his beats have a much warmer/smoother sound to my ears, the sound the comes from recording to tape first I think, so idk. Maybe he doesn't even use tape, lol, just my observation.

I'm pretty sure today he does everything in pro tools, maybe mixes down tape, but his beats today sound different than back in the 90's/early 2000's.
 
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In that Kanye vid, the dude sitting beside Tim in the red hat is Hannon Lane. Childhood friend, used to produce w/me. I'm familiar with that circle, I could answer the question in respect to 10 years ago and what I've seen in spots Tim used to work out of without him being around since then, but I'd rather not. Tim's some type of god up here, so all folk would do is tell me how wrong I am and how "no one knows".

Just know in the end, Tim records in multiple places including tourbuses, and doesn't mix. He sends the songs to engineers in Pro tools sessions.

You do the math on "what Tim Does". Also don't confuse "tape" with the multiple peices of analog gear that are sampled and/or played directly into his production.

You shouldn't care what he does, you won't be anywhere close to "the next Timbaland" basing you sound on speculation of what he may or may not do.
 
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
You do the math on "what Tim Does". Also don't confuse "tape" with the multiple peices of analog gear that are sampled and/or played directly into his production.
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No confusion... just saying it may not have been tape he's got huge banks of sounds (plug-ins are numerous these days... pop your sample in a program render it and presto. Click save and your library has grown).

A/D & D/A converters can make a song.

There is no telling what different analog setups can do for sounds until it has been tried.

I'm in an experimental phase myself... if people only realized what sounds they can create in some of these low end programs.

Ish like this got me thinking a few years back


Personally I haven't recorded on any quality reel to reels. :cry:
 
Wha Chu Mean said:
No confusion... just saying it may not have been tape he's got huge banks of sounds (plug-ins are numerous these days... pop your sample in a program render it and presto. Click save and your library has grown).
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I think you misread my post. I'm saying it absolutely isn't tape(at least on Tim's end, who knows what happens when mixing)if everything leaves his multiple studios in a Pro Tools session.

The only consistent thing in Tim's spots is Pro Tools. Everything else can vary from MPC to ASR to Trinity to Niko/Meko to Mo Phatt rack to Live instruments.

To add on, you can also confuse the sound of "tape" with a mixboard if you're analyzing the wrong traits in music as the sound of "tape".
 
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