Why Hip Hop production is dead

DJ Synner

HiBeats Music
Title says it all. Yet 80-90% of the producers/songwriters/beatmakers I see here continue to beat a well and truly dead horse. There is a massive amount of beatmakers that do NOTHING but grind out the same old crap (and usually it's not crap, but I use the term here because of the sheer amount of it all) on a daily basis.

Now this is fine if you're a top soundclick producer and you're making thousands a month off the bottom teir of rappers around the world, but in reality there's only a few of those, and no matter how many infomercial-like advertisements you see around the net claiming to make you a millionaire by reading their book or watching their video, it is hard to establish yourself. Period. The economic situation doesn't help, and there are easier ways to make a dime if that's what your goal is.

Some people don't care so much about the money/success/fame etc. But there's not many like that when you really think about it. I personally make music because I love it, but at the end of the day I, like everybody else, aim to be as successful as possible.

Unlike most of you I don't live in the US. It is a lot easier for me to see the trends of music shifting on a global scale. Hip Hop is great. Good music - rapping is an art form that many have excelled at. But as history has shown, just like rap music trends change fast, Hip Hop is no longer at the forefront of the commercial music industry like it once was. Times have changed, and while you will see the odd success story of a producer who makes it big with no experience with anything apart from the art of making instrumental music in the genre of the spoken word, the fact is, if you want to be noticed in the industry, not the "hood," then producing hip hop is almost the worst thing you could do as far as genres go. The reason being, every man and his dog makes beats. Hip Hop beats.

So what do you have to do? Look at the producers who are at the top of the game right now. The Dr. Lukes, DJ Frank Es. What do they primarily produce? Not trap beats for your average 13 year old kid to rap over and think he's Rick Ross. And in that being said, the answer to the question isn't important. What's important is the fact that if you look closely at their careers, they have changed real quick, kept up with the trends in the industry and stayed fresh. And I'm just gonna go out and say it: what's "in" right now is crossover dance music. It's starting to take over the airways. But being good at what's popular right now isn't all there is to it. The secret is analysing the industry, and being good at making music that people like currently, while keeping in mind that what people like changes every day. In that respect I would go as far as to say that versitility is one of the big keys to success.

And yes, there are a fair amount of big Hip Hop producers that are having success right about now. But in my opinion, they are there to stay. There is little or no room for new kids on the block. That is why I'm making the point that if success is what you desire, then rap beats are not the way to get there.

So you might've come into reading this with preconcieved ideas that I was dissing the very style of music that makes this site tick, but that's not the case. Hip Hop is not dead in the general sense. Then again, you might think it is, that's up for debate. No, Hip Hop is a culture -- and primarily a style of music-- that has its magnificent good points. But if you're a beatmaker, songwriter, engineer, arranger, producer -- whatever -- and you've been guilty of the ignorance I've been talking about, bottom line: get with the times. Simple as that. Otherwise, all you do is make it ridiculously hard for yourself to be successful.
 
This whole statement will start to kick in eventually, then everyone and their mommas will be producing electronic music. Not us, but the next generation.
As you said Hip-Hop is a culture. One that is so infectious that people who don't even understand it try to be a part of it anyways. It just wont die as long as we are alive.
A friend if mine told me that right now Hip Hop is "evolving"
I think the proper term is that its being butchered.
Take the rap and then this it on a dance track.
What do people call it?
Hip-Hop.. when its obvious it isn't. Its a fusion of genres, and Hip-Hop is one, but more and more is see the actual soul and essence of Hip-Hop being lost. And I don't mean sampled ish either. I mean even trap ish is starting to get drowned out a bit.
I just think its time to stop calling it Hip-Hop. Call it anything else, because, then start learning how to be ahead of it if you're looking to be in the industry IMO.
But to be honest, you and me are wasting time typing this. No one cares. Everyone will continue to saturate the market with the same thing.
Its a good time to be original ;)
 
Maaaaannnnn, all I can speak for is myself. I never gave a f**k about makin money, I just love making music, and this shyt keep gettin me checks between my blackouts and overdoses, so if you dedicated, I'm sure you can find a lane and go far. This shyt ain't dead, it's just folk lose hope and want everyone else to lose hope with them.

I was sayin everything y'all saying about music dying back in 2004, but I'm still aiight, so I proved myself wrong, lol, irony, cause alot of folk ain't aiight no more who constantly tellin me how right I was.

Message in that bottle....you only as live as ya hustle. Time for wolves to eat and kittens to starve. If ya stomach growlin', you puss.

Not directed at anyone, so oly puss would take offense. :cheers:
 
But to be honest, you and me are wasting time typing this. No one cares. Everyone will continue to saturate the market with the same thing.
Its a good time to be original ;)
If we are wasting our time then good. I started out as a dance producer, then I started doing urban stuff because that's what was current. Lately as I see things changing I've gone back to my roots, producing top40 tracks, and I've seen a lot more success this way. I say if people choose to ignore the obvious then so be it. More opportunities for the rest of us.

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Maaaaannnnn, all I can speak for is myself. I never gave a f**k about makin money, I just love making music, and this shyt keep gettin me checks between my blackouts and overdoses, so if you dedicated, I'm sure you can find a lane and go far. This shyt ain't dead, it's just folk lose hope and want everyone else to lose hope with them.

I was sayin everything y'all saying about music dying back in 2004, but I'm still aiight, so I proved myself wrong, lol, irony, cause alot of folk ain't aiight no more who constantly tellin me how right I was.

Message in that bottle....you only as live as ya hustle. Time for wolves to eat and kittens to starve. If ya stomach growlin', you puss.

Not directed at anyone, so oly puss would take offense. :cheers:

Making music for the hell of it is I guess the most rewarding in the long term. My point is aimed at those who want to be successful but continue to be ignorant.
 
^^^Don't take me as being an azz, I'm genuinely asking, what "more success" have you received in dance music? It's just as dead, all music is "dead" to an extent, if you're looking at a sales graph. Xtina, Ciara, J-Lo and Rihanna are doing J. Cole and Wale Numbers. Lol.

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Making music for the hell of it is I guess the most rewarding in the long term. My point is aimed at those who want to be successful but continue to be ignorant.

Depending on who you ask, i can be considered "successful", can be considered ignorant as well, lol. That's my point in itself. This is the time when artists are defined in ALL forms from photography to music to drawing(you notice no real shift in dance, because there's no software that does it all for you). The tools are accessable to everyone evening the playing field for those who have the heart to shine. IMO. :cheers:
 
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^^^ I hear that. That's either a problem, a good thing or both depending on who you ask.
anyone can get a DAW and try it out now.
 
Well I think deRanged is right in that ALL music is dying as a whole in terms of the sales numbers at least from the perspective of sales from the late 90's. Also from the perspective of the amount of folks creating it. Like what was already said "anyone can get a DAW" and make music. But the overall picture of music is not as bad as we think it is as this RIAA graph shows. Our current sales numbers are pretty close to the total sales of 8 tracks and LP's of the early 70's. Which coincidentally during this time we were in a recession. Remember gas shortages and all that stuff. Anyway it took a new kind of music "disco" to pull the numbers up back then. That may need to happen again to grow music sales numbers as a whole but I don't see us ever reaching the high sales numbers of the late 90's ever again.

But this doesn't mean music is failing. For those of us doing pop, dance and country stuff things are good. Taylor Swift hasn't been affected greatly by any lack of sales. I think sadly true hip hop will go the way of album rock and hard rock....sure there will be some die hard fans but for the most part the genre will die out or it will have to morph itself into something else to survive. This is the natural progression that music must take. Keep in mind that rock music from the 50's sounded nothing like rock music from the late 60's...it had to grow and change like everything else.
 

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i still make music for the same reason that i did in high school - to get chicks. good economy bad economy, recession no recession, there will always be chicks.
 
Well I think deRanged is right in that ALL music is dying as a whole in terms of the sales numbers at least from the perspective of sales from the late 90's. Also from the perspective of the amount of folks creating it. Like what was already said "anyone can get a DAW" and make music. But the overall picture of music is not as bad as we think it is as this RIAA graph shows. Our current sales numbers are pretty close to the total sales of 8 tracks and LP's of the early 70's. Which coincidentally during this time we were in a recession. Remember gas shortages and all that stuff. Anyway it took a new kind of music "disco" to pull the numbers up back then. That may need to happen again to grow music sales numbers as a whole but I don't see us ever reaching the high sales numbers of the late 90's ever again.

But this doesn't mean music is failing. For those of us doing pop, dance and country stuff things are good. Taylor Swift hasn't been affected greatly by any lack of sales. I think sadly true hip hop will go the way of album rock and hard rock....sure there will be some die hard fans but for the most part the genre will die out or it will have to morph itself into something else to survive. This is the natural progression that music must take. Keep in mind that rock music from the 50's sounded nothing like rock music from the late 60's...it had to grow and change like everything else.

I'm blessed to be providing music for a genre that is growing strong
christian rap and
also involved in business and christian e-books
the sales continue to go even stronger
and the fanbase is christian youth groups,and christians in general that are looking for that same feel of the instrumentals of normal rap..but want something that glorifies the Lord...
and generally speaking,labels and artists of any genre should have many revenue streams
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You more or less have to take what you can get. I mainly do hip-hop and more urban stuff. But lets be honest, if someone offered me a million dollars to go cut a country album with garth brooks i'd do it in a heartbeat. Doesn't mean that i'd do anything for money, i'm just saying to do what you love and to continue to do what you love, you have to provide for yourself. In order to provide for yourself, you might have to take risks!
 
^^^Don't take me as being an azz, I'm genuinely asking, what "more success" have you received in dance music? It's just as dead, all music is "dead" to an extent, if you're looking at a sales graph. Xtina, Ciara, J-Lo and Rihanna are doing J. Cole and Wale Numbers. Lol.

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Depending on who you ask, i can be considered "successful", can be considered ignorant as well, lol. That's my point in itself. This is the time when artists are defined in ALL forms from photography to music to drawing(you notice no real shift in dance, because there's no software that does it all for you). The tools are accessable to everyone evening the playing field for those who have the heart to shine. IMO. :cheers:
Success is relative, and it can also be an opinion. By more success personally I think it's pretty much self explanitory why I in particular started to get a little more heat from commercial execs doing the thing I originally loved which was dance music. I say that because, at least in the US market, you had a very small amount of penetration into the mainstream for dance music, and a very, very large amount for Urban music. Once dance crossed over, why do you think the pioneers of what we now know as "Pop Dance" like D. Guetta (and to a lesser extent the likes of Tiesto, Afrojack, Armin etc) got so much popularity in a small amount of time? It's because the mainstream market all of a sudden said, "Damn this new dance ish is actually pretty good," which of course influenced the current scene of "pop." Who would've thought 2 or 3 years ago that Producer/DJs like Avicii would be behind some of the biggest top40 tracks around? On a side point, David Guetta originally fused the old with the [relatively] new by creating "Electro-Hop." In my opinion it was genious from a commercial perspective, but it had to be carried out the right way, because producers had tried and failed before, but Guetta did it right. It was a perfect example of what I was talking about in this thread, the fact that those who are currently at the top aren't there because they're particularly talented. No, they're there because they saw things changing before they even changed, and they adjusted their music to suit.

And you're right when you say that the industry is struggling. But again, that is relative, and nowadays it's not so much about illegal downloads either, especially since most revenue is made from everything but record sales. Even then, record sales have leveled out to an extent, and this year in fact they're not doing so bad compared to previous years. Too many people, however, look narrow-mindedly towards record sales as a universal indicator of success, when in actual fact, nowadays it's a small part of the industry when you really think about it.

Who said the music biz was small? It's saturated and struggling in some areas, yes. But small, no. It's a billion dollar industry, and while as we all know getting somewhere as far as money is concerned is more to do with who you know rather than what you know, perhaps the best thing you could do apart from having those connections is studying the market, and applying yourself to your findings. There are a new generation of music execs that aren't making the same mistakes that brought the "fall" of the industry, but are well and truly embracing change.
 
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Hip-hop isnt as commercial. True. But its far from dead. Its just now YOU have to go search for it, you have to continue to support it. Itll never die. Its apart of the culture of the african american community. Regardless of the trap music, crunk, gangsta, r&b and whatever else. W/O hip-hop NONE of this stuff would even exist.
People have to make there own path which i believe has been a trait thats been forgotten. Would you buy an indie artist album with true quality and meaning? or an album from someone in the indsutry thats been watered down and controlled?
I know alot of people that literally Love hip-hop and the concious rap from KRS One to Talib Kweli, Nas, Mobb Deep, etc etc. Yet depending on where your located it may not be revelant.
I speak for myself when I say that this generation doesnt want to learn. They want to be entertained 24/7 nothing is serious and they hope things will be handed to them. it will only get worse as the younger generations grow and so on so forth. When at the club you want to vibe, have a good time and chill w/ women of course. But when thats the SAME music played when the club is over...well.
 
Hip-hop isnt as commercial. True. But its far from dead. Its just now YOU have to go search for it, you have to continue to support it. Itll never die. Its apart of the culture of the african american community. Regardless of the trap music, crunk, gangsta, r&b and whatever else. W/O hip-hop NONE of this stuff would even exist.
People have to make there own path which i believe has been a trait thats been forgotten. Would you buy an indie artist album with true quality and meaning? or an album from someone in the indsutry thats been watered down and controlled?
I know alot of people that literally Love hip-hop and the concious rap from KRS One to Talib Kweli, Nas, Mobb Deep, etc etc. Yet depending on where your located it may not be revelant.
I speak for myself when I say that this generation doesnt want to learn. They want to be entertained 24/7 nothing is serious and they hope things will be handed to them. it will only get worse as the younger generations grow and so on so forth. When at the club you want to vibe, have a good time and chill w/ women of course. But when thats the SAME music played when the club is over...well.
Totally agree. Especially about this generation wanting everything handed to us. I never said or meant that Hip Hop itself was dead.
 
Oh yea i know I read what you wrote.lol Just kinda had to take it there for a moment. Sometimes you yourself have to be a teacher in order to create change.
 
50's-60's people were into jazz. To piss those people off, 70's kids would listen to rock or soul or funk or.. disco. Then, to piss THOSE parents off, 80's-90's kids would listen to rap and grunge rock or metal. And now, to piss THEM off, the kids are listening to cheese-pop. So in the future, this newest generation is gonna be telling their kids, "Your music is garbage - Now that Katy Perry.. wowww was she something."
 
I speak for myself when I say that this generation doesnt want to learn. They want to be entertained 24/7 nothing is serious and they hope things will be handed to them.

At the risk of sounding like an old head here...I would have to agree and add that part of the problem is the instant reward world that we live in today. I mean today's youth is used to getting what they want now this second especially as it pertains to music. Any song they ever wanted is at their fingertips and they can have it in less than a minute. Any sound or software can be had with a quick download. When I was starting out with music you had to buy sounds and wait for them to send you a disc. I remember buying my first bit of music software an RB338 for like 200 bucks which seemed expensive back then when a whole operating system cost 99 dollars. LOL...oh well I am sure that each generation says this about the next one coming up.
 
it is hard to establish yourself. Period

hard to establish yourself? how?

all you gotta do is "make music", right?

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Hip Hop is no longer at the forefront of the commercial music industry like it once was

if it's not, then what is? what replaced it?

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

what's "in" right now is crossover dance music

FUKC "in"...

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:47 PM ----------

Hip Hop is not dead in the general sense.

interesting...

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Its a good time to be original ;)

maybe...if you want everyone to question why you aren't doing what WORKS.

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folk lose hope and want everyone else to lose hope with them.

lose hope in what? fortune and fame?

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revenue is made from everything but record sales

solid point...

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Too many people, however, look narrow-mindedly towards record sales as a universal indicator of success

brainwashed by the hype; sheep.
 
lol so youre saying the problem with hip hop production.. is that they should be producing non hip hop music. yea dance and pop music is a money maker because of the different streams of revenue

the reason why those pop and electronica producers make so much money is because they make popular music, they always have and they always will. dudes like Afrojack and Tiesto are featured performers on a lot of the records they produce without writing a single word just because of their stature in the game. You're not going to see a Rick Ross ft. Lex Luger no matter how popular he gets as a producer because thats not the culture of hip hop music.

Dance music you dont need words, its about purely music. Hip Hop is built off the synergy of words to music.. but that pop dance music will always be popular and winning formula because the revenue streams for it is much greater then hip hop music. The subjects arent touchy, it makes you feel good, you can put it in a bunch of commercials and endorsements easy without having to worry about curses and swears. It's a friendly genre, the only thing that held Dance music back is the drug association.. which with its constant crossover into American pop music is kind of losing that edge.

oh... and the music industry is not a billion dollar industry.

video games is a billion dollar industry, they drop a project like Modern Warfare 3.. spend less and make more in 2 years then a record label has made in 6. If the music industry was a billion dollar industry they wouldnt be scrambling to rape artists all the time, and trying to figure out how to scrap up all the loose change to amount to a buck.

matter of fact last time i checked video games make more then the movies too.

as long as making good quality music can be made on a laptop, music industry will continue to lose money. and established brands working with lesser known artists? pshh its a wrap for the whole thing.. you can see the foundation breaking up.. these niggas dont know what to do with themselves its quite amusing.
 
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matter of fact last time i checked video games make more then the movies too.

well damn...

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established brands working with lesser known artists? pshh its a wrap for the whole thing.. you can see the foundation breaking up

it's a good thing...

if shit stayed the same forever, it'd be a bad look.
 
look to become a in-house producer for a indie label
like Mannie Fresh,Beats by the Pound,Swiss Beatz,etc...started..SIGNATURE sound and ppl will seek you out if they want to sound
but producers in general rap music need to focus on developing artists..not looking to get their instrumentals in "known" rap artists albums..

see I blessed be down with a real movement in music and in ppl's life
christian rap and RnB (rhythm and bible) artists aren't concerned with album sells..bigger focus edifying the body of Christ
so for sales like 300,000-500,000 album sales over 3-6 album span is fine

christian books,movies even yes even VIDEO games are strong and on a upward movement
look at the movie GRACE CARD super high quality fully funded by a church down in Memphis ..nothing but christain actors/actress and volunteers

christain media isn't selling God...it's about having a alternative to what's is mainstream media put out....and christian need to guard their hearts against that kind of media..we love to dance,have a party just like others...we just want to do it where we don't damage our relationship with our God....this post is not about changing you beliefs or spreading the Word...
just showing you that producers/labels/artists that are true biblical based are having a great experience and don't have to worry about the slipping of music sales..

you don't know about us true christians who come in love you going to know





the opposite of Rick Ross
 
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