Sampling, But...

C

clipfish

New member
Hi, I've had this question in mind for a while now and I would greatly appreciate some schooling.
I've been reading around online about the topic of clearing samples and what not, but still I've yet to receive a straight answer to my question(s) in specific.

*Just correct me where it's needed...*

So if I was to sample something and add it to my own body of work, it would require me to 'clear' it.
This - from what I understand - is the case because if I intend on making a song with another artists' material in it, then selling it, (usually) the artist that I had sampled from will want a piece of the pie, including an upfront fee etc etc.
But that is ONLY if my intentions were to make (money) profit from it?
Otherwise it would be okay?

Usually I wouldn't question this and just go with it, but what makes me wonder is that samples are used in songs all the time, and I highly doubt alot of them get 'cleared' at all!
That's not to say it's okay then, but surely it would be permitted under the right circumstances?
For example, free 'mixtapes' that clearly have samples in it, or even go a far as to use the actual instrumental to an already existing song!
So from what I've gathered, samples need clearing, but ONLY if you intend on making profit from it (Selling a song with sample(s) in it).
But if it's completely free, then it's fine, like a mixtape, or a bunch of free songs just up for anyone to download via soundcloud.
Again, if anyone could just explain to me it would be much appreciated.
 
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A lot of samples aren't cleared, you are correct. However, a lot do get sued afterwards when the copyright owners discover the infringement.

If you were to put your work out for FREE, you would still need to clear the samples. However, the normal process for a copyright owner to stop an infringement on a free piece of work is to send a cease and desist letter from their solicitor. If you don't remove that specific work, you will face a court case. They can't actually sue you for money as what can they sue you for? You didn't make any money.

I have heard that now they try and sue you for a portion of your career earnings, as a mixtape can "set your career up" so to speak. You earn money from gigs performing the songs, etc. I'm not sure how true this is nor do I know if it's possible in the court of law.

The chance of a copyright owner actually discovering your music is very slim (you're an unknown artist), and so you'll probably get away with it for the most part.

Either way, I'm not a lawyer and you should seek advice from one. All advice above is from what I understand of the topic. Hope I've helped.
 
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Exclusivo said:
A lot of samples aren't cleared, you are correct. However, a lot do get sued afterwards when the copyright owners discover the infringement.

If you were to put your work out for FREE, you would still need to clear the samples. However, the normal process for a copyright owner to stop an infringement on a free piece of work is to send a cease and desist letter from their solicitor. If you don't remove that specific work, you will face a court case. They can't actually sue you for money as what can they sue you for? You didn't make any money.

I have heard that now they try and sue you for a portion of your career earnings, as a mixtape can "set your career up" so to speak. You earn money from gigs performing the songs, etc. I'm not sure how true this is nor do I know if it's possible in the court of law.

The chance of a copyright owner actually discovering your music is very slim (you're an unknown artist), and so you'll probably get away with it for the most part.

Either way, I'm not a lawyer and you should seek advice from one. All advice above is from what I understand of the topic. Hope I've helped.
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Thank you, no that was great thanks, just what I needed was a confirmation really as to whether or not it would be okay to sample as long as it's a freebie. Any additional input was just extra. ;)
 
to be more succinct if the sample is identifiable you need to clear it (even if you think it isn't others may very well notice it straight up)

your end-game is irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not you need to clear a sample - if you want to use it in any form then it must be cleared/licensed/released to you

as exclusivo notes consult your own lawyer to avoid being disappointed with the advice of internet nutters; you can at least sue them if they give you bad advice
 
bandcoach said:
to be more succinct if the sample is identifiable you need to clear it (even if you think it isn't others may very well notice it straight up)

your end-game is irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not you need to clear a sample - if you want to use it in any form then it must be cleared/licensed/released to you

as exclusivo notes consult your own lawyer to avoid being disappointed with the advice of internet nutters; you can at least sue them if they give you bad advice
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I'll keep that in mind, but one thing that still makes me wonder is the countless covers of already existing songs, and remixes! I'm in doubt a lot of the people I hear doing such music go through the process of 'clearing' anything.
 
Covers aren't in the same bracket as sampling. You don't technically need permission. You can license them through a publisher with little friction.
 
^^^Covers/Samples SAME.

No 2 scenarios will be the same in either case, but most "must be cleared"(respect the quotes).

Examplse of "covers" gone wrong include "Bittersweet Symphony" one of the most costly lawsuits in music history with no sample whatsoever, not even a lyric repeated, it just sounded similar to a song by the rolling stones.
 
Apologies.

But, PRS 4 music license covers to artists with very little friction. Permission is needed (not sure why i wrote that you don't), but I have been told by a representative of PRS that they are NOT regarded as the same. Additionally, I'm led to believe licensing a cover is much more obtainable than a sample. (Specifically, small units.)

Maybe what I meant to say (in regards to permission) is that you don't need to seek permission as you would with a sample. Having spoken to several artists in the past, they've never needed to go through a clearing company to obtain permission for their commercial releases...

But maybe the representive is wrong (I'd have thought/hoped not... Since it's his job he should know). He's/I'm probably wrong. 101 reasons why you should consult a lawyer about this.
 
covers require the same publishing clearances to be obtained but in this case you are seeking permission to release a version of the song that is done without inclusion of any elements of the original

remixes are also in the same boat - you need publishing clearance or other licenses to use the stems you do and will almost certainly only ever get credit as producer not a writer - so many "bootleg" remixes out there are really official remixes labelled to make them appear illegal

for remixes, if you want to do them, check out the various remix competitions, like those hosted buy indaba music - free licences to do what you will with any or all the stems and free access to the stems; you can even release them without penalty as you have permission to use the stems for non-commercial purposes in most cases
 
your right.. alll samples aren't cleared... if you take a sample and distort it and change it enough.. the original composer wouldn't be able to tell it was their song.. in all honesty.. nobody cares if you sample their music until the song blows up .. then they'll sue you.. if you're a lil beatmaker.. what are they honestly going to sue you for? nothing?
 
punitive damages are often sought in these cases; i.e. damages meant to discourage others from doing the same thing

why risk your future wealth and health?....
 
bandcoach said:
punitive damages are often sought in these cases; i.e. damages meant to discourage others from doing the same thing

why risk your future wealth and health?....
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From what I understand and have been told:

if the producer is hiding behind their production company, then the only thing they can be sued for is the companies profits (if there's any).

However, negligence can (if it can be proved) come in to effect in these situations and the limited liability an LTD or an LLC provides is written off.

To answer bandcoaches question... People don't just have (at least) £500 that they can cough up for the upfront fee for a sample for each of the tracks of their album. Maybe you do, but the regular independent artist doesn't.
 
the question "why risk your future wealth/health?" is rhetorical: meant to engage people in justifying their position before committing to an action that can seriously damage your future well-being

as for liability, it depends on the status of the producer: most will not be hiding behind a label as the ones who usually push this path are unsigned and therefore independent and therefore fully liable for any litigation against them

as for what can be sued for different jurisdictions different limitations but the general trend is punitive damages and as well as forfeiture of all profits before taxes

my point in any discussion of this is that unless you have the money to legitimately lease/license the samples, don't do it: look to remix competitions instead where you get given everything and you can use whatever you want as long as it ties back to the competition: i.e. make sure to enter the competition at the end of the day and you can put your remix out there for anyone to listen to without fear of being sued later on, subject to the terms/rules of the competition
 
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Another scenario that had crossed my mind is the unfortunate circumstance where one might have accidentally taken an already existing melody from another song and has used it as their own, genuinely unaware of the fact.
This whole law thing wrapped around a space of creativity really does make things more complicated than it has to be, but I would love for someone to explain to me what happens if this ever was the case?
 
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