Selling beats without marketing

SoundMatching

New member
I have been coming to this forum for a while and the topic of selling beats comes up often. I noticed soundcloud, myspace, soundclick, etc. aren't really fulfilling your needs. I want you to be able to just produce music without having to worry about marketing, artist not wanting to pay,etc. I really need your help to develop this into a valuable website. Please check out soundmatching.com to find out what we are about. Please sign up. We care about producers making money and building relationships with artists. Come back to this forum and tell me how you feel about it.
 
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this concerns me greatly

Will I own the beat?

When a winner is selected and the uploaded music files approved, the legal ownership of the winning beat transfers to the Client from the Producer. All other beats, with the exception of the winning concept, remain copyrighted by the respective Producer.

everything that we tell producers here is to retain their ownership of all rights and only lease - you are essentially asking them to cede their rights, to give away their long-term revenue stream via royalties, mechanical rights, synchronisation rights, grand work rights (use in a musical, etc)

I would tread warily in this particular instance
 
Selling Beats based on talent

I have been coming to this forum for a while and the topic of selling beats comes up often. I noticed soundcloud, myspace, soundclick, etc. aren't really fulfilling your needs. I want you to be able to just produce music without having to worry about marketing, artist not wanting to pay,etc. I really need your help to develop this into a valuable website. Please check out soundmatching.com to find out what we are about. Please sign up. We care about producers making money and building relationships with artists. Come back to this forum and tell me how you fell about it.
 
this concerns me greatly



everything that we tell producers here is to retain their ownership of all rights and only lease - you are essentially asking them to cede their rights, to give away their long-term revenue stream via royalties, mechanical rights, synchronisation rights, grand work rights (use in a musical, etc)

I would tread warily in this particular instance

Thanks for the input. This is being designed for producers. We want to provide a solution that really helps producers. How do you suggest we solve this problem?
 
Keep in mind that this is not a finished product. This is being developed to help producers. Let us know what we are missing; what you like about it; what you don't like. All feedback/criticism is appreciated
 
If your competition does not receive at least 20 unique entries, you will be provided with a 100% refund.
I don´t get it. Does this mean that the guy looking for a beat will have to pay before he hears the beat?

I would never ever pay up front for a piece of music I haven´t heard.
Unless if I was Steven Spielberg hiring Hans Zimmer. Maybe then.

And what if there was only 1 entry but it was totally frigging fantastic?

Best of luck.
 
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I don´t get it. Does this mean that the guy looking for a beat will have to pay before he hears the beat?

I would never ever pay up front for a piece of music I haven´t heard.
Unless if I was Steven Spielberg hiring Hans Zimmer. Maybe then.

And what if there was only 1 entry but it was totally frigging fantastic?

Best of luck.

Yes, the Artist would have to pay in advance to make sure that a producer gets paid for his effort. The Artist fills out a brief describing how he wants his/her beat, so each beat submitted will be customized for the artist. We don't think its likely that 20 customized beats based on what you asked for will all be bad. It seems you are answering from an artist prospective. Currently we are trying to develop the best product for producers. We will focus on Artists later in a different forum. If the contest doesn't get at least 20 unique entries the artist will be able to get a full refund.
 
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this concerns me greatly



everything that we tell producers here is to retain their ownership of all rights and only lease - you are essentially asking them to cede their rights, to give away their long-term revenue stream via royalties, mechanical rights, synchronisation rights, grand work rights (use in a musical, etc)

I would tread warily in this particular instance

Also I don't want producers to lose their long-term revenue. We only do one beat at a time. We feel this is a great way for producers to get their foot in the door and build long-term relationships with artists. Please tell me your thoughts on this
 
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Thanks for the input. This is being designed for producers. We want to provide a solution that really helps producers. How do you suggest we solve this problem?

Ownership does not transfer, but a lease is negotiated for the pre-stated fee
- If the fee is high enough the beatsmith may agree to an exclusive lease
- Otherwise they would be selling a non-exclusive lease
- No other rights are ceded in the transaction unless further fees are paid - at this point I would assume that you either begin to act as the agent for one or the other to keep your fingers in the pie or step aside and let their attorneys battle it out at 10 paces

From the clients perspective
- they can buy a lease (with you as the intermediary)
- whether that is an exclusive lease or otherwise is down to the parties involved

From the beatsmiths perspective
- they can sell a lease (with you as the intermediary)
- whether that is an exclusive lease or otherwise is down to the parties involved

Your business model is designed to benefit you first and your clientèle second
- the only value that you add to this transaction is the opportunity to run an on-line beat auction, with you as the broker
- this suggests that your revenue stream is two-fold on every sale
-- the beatsmith gets charged a simple fee
-- the successful client is also charged a fee on the sale/transaction (a premium if you will over and above the cost of the beat)
- I am not going to join simply to find out what fees you charge either party
- remember that in this business, the supplier as well as the consumer need to agree on the price and what rights, if any, are transferred
- you putting in place a simple "ownership goes to the client" clause is theft of property by the client by illegal contractual stipulations
-- the statement "the legal ownership of the winning beat transfers to the Client from the Producer" stipulates that the beatmsith cannot negotiate what rights transfer, only that all rights transfer
-- if they win the auction they have to accept this stipulation, regardless of what they want, as you make it a stipulation before they enter the auction
-- i.e. their entering the auction does not give them any legal recourse to negotiate what they are selling, once the auction has concluded
-- all power in negotiations has shifted away from the beatsmith to you and the client, which may well make the contractual agreements null and void, as a contract is only legally binding, in most jurisdictions, where the parties are entering into the contract with equal power
-- it is why minors and other "special" persons cannot enter into contracts, because the power structure of the contractual negotiation is weighted against them
--- this last point of course raises the spectre of minors jumping in and either purchasing or selling a beat
---- if both beatsmith and client are minors, then neither party can enter into a binding contract (and you cannot pursue your fee)
----- I see no effort on your part to limit your liability in this matter

None of the above should be taken to be a valid legal opinion on your operation but is an informed summary of the pros and cons; before proceeding further I would seek legal advice as to what (other) issues may be present in your business model.

also I have merged your two threads because both belong in Collaborations and Opportunities, start another one in getting stated and I will have to give you an infraction
 
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It seems you are answering from an artist prospective. Currently we are trying to develop the best product for producers. We will focus on Artists later in a different forum. If the contest doesn't get at least 20 unique entries the artist will be able to get a full refund.
I ain´t answering. I´m asking questions :)
The flaws are too obvious and I wanted to know if I was right. Because on your site it does not tell that the customer has to pay up front. It only mentions a payback.
I wish you all of luck but think about it; today one can listen to 100 000 of thousands of beats online and decide if to lease/buy after the customer have heard it.

I do not know any producers that is payed up front for something they haven't made yet. Except the professionals with publishing or mixing deals/contracts. And they are mostly signed so you won´t get them into producing for you here.

Not to be a PITY but there are a lot to think about with your business model.

best of luck and I mean it.
 
Ownership does not transfer, but a lease is negotiated for the pre-stated fee
- If the fee is high enough the beatsmith may agree to an exclusive lease
- Otherwise they would be selling a non-exclusive lease
- No other rights are ceded in the transaction unless further fees are paid - at this point I would assume that you either begin to act as the agent for one or the other to keep your fingers in the pie or step aside and let their attorneys battle it out at 10 paces

From the clients perspective
- they can buy a lease (with you as the intermediary)
- whether that is an exclusive lease or otherwise is down to the parties involved

From the beatsmiths perspective
- they can sell a lease (with you as the intermediary)
- whether that is an exclusive lease or otherwise is down to the parties involved

Your business model is designed to benefit you first and your clientèle second
- the only value that you add to this transaction is the opportunity to run an on-line beat auction, with you as the broker
- this suggests that your revenue stream is two-fold on every sale
-- the beatsmith gets charged a simple fee
-- the successful client is also charged a fee on the sale/transaction (a premium if you will over and above the cost of the beat)
- I am not going to join simply to find out what fees you charge either party
- remember that in this business, the supplier as well as the consumer need to agree on the price and what rights, if any, are transferred
- you putting in place a simple "ownership goes to the client" clause is theft of property by the client by illegal contractual stipulations
-- the statement "the legal ownership of the winning beat transfers to the Client from the Producer" stipulates that the beatmsith cannot negotiate what rights transfer, only that all rights transfer
-- if they win the auction they have to accept this stipulation, regardless of what they want, as you make it a stipulation before they enter the auction
-- i.e. their entering the auction does not give them any legal recourse to negotiate what they are selling, once the auction has concluded
-- all power in negotiations has shifted away from the beatsmith to you and the client, which may well make the contractual agreements null and void, as a contract is only legally binding, in most jurisdictions, where the parties are entering into the contract with equal power
-- it is why minors and other "special" persons cannot enter into contracts, because the power structure of the contractual negotiation is weighted against them
--- this last point of course raises the spectre of minors jumping in and either purchasing or selling a beat
---- if both beatsmith and client are minors, then neither party can enter into a binding contract (and you cannot pursue your fee)
----- I see no effort on your part to limit your liability in this matter

None of the above should be taken to be a valid legal opinion on your operation but is an informed summary of the pros and cons; before proceeding further I would seek legal advice as to what (other) issues may be present in your business model.

also I have merged your two threads because both belong in Collaborations and Opportunities, start another one in getting stated and I will have to give you an infraction
This is a beautiful reply. We greatly appreciate your expertise and the effort you put into that response. You have identified problems we never thought of. We now understand that to attract quality producers we will have to include a negotiation process between beatsmith and contest host, where lease, exclusive ownership, etc. will be discussed. I would like your personal opinion on what you feel would be a reasonable price for exclusive rights (I know it depends on a variety of factors but try to give a dollar amount).<br>We currently have no interest in acting as an agent. Also you mentioned an auction. We are aiming to have a contest approach opposed to an auction. Our revenue will come from a small commission of each hosted contest. We want this to be free for any producer to enter. Only the artist would pay anything. The commission the artist pays would be on top of the prize. The artist would see the total cost, prize and commission before launching the contest. We are currently working on solutions, and will make the appropriate changes soon.<br>
But I do want to ask you another question. What if the artist submitted his brief of what he's looking for and what he wants to pay. Producers submit their work but also the terms they would accept. Negotiations are possible. So a producer would win because of his work and because he and the artist agreed to conditions. Would that be more equal and fair?<br>I know your privacy maybe important, but I would really like to know more about your background and work. Your opinion really helped us to think about a lot. Our project is part of Startup weekend Detroit (check out detroit.startupweekend.org) and tomorrow we're being judged by experts and investors. I would like to use parts of Futureproducers posters contribution as a part of our project and I'd like to tell a bit about you. If you'd like you can e-mail me at soundmatching@gmail.com. You too Heyclown.
 
This is a beautiful reply.

We greatly appreciate your expertise and the effort you put into that response.

You have identified problems we never thought of.

We now understand that to attract quality producers we will have to include a negotiation process between beatsmith and contest host, where lease, exclusive ownership, etc. will be discussed.

I would like your personal opinion on what you feel would be a reasonable price for exclusive rights (I know it depends on a variety of factors but try to give a dollar amount).

We currently have no interest in acting as an agent.

Any price I suggest is pie-in-the-sky, because each situation is unique and has its own factors that are unknowable in advance

But as a purely ball-park figure, I would want to be charging at least 10 times as much for a non-exclusive lease (elsewhere I have put this figure in the $10's of thousands of dollars, but as the economy waxes and wanes these things shift as well)

My starting prices are much higher than others because I am valuing my work based on
- years of experience (37),
- cost to amortise my hardware and software
- utility costs
- other overheads (accountants/tax/phone/internet/mail/couriers/etc)
- time spent creating
- time spent recording/rendering
- time spent mixing
- time spent preparing for distribution/sale
- professional association fees

Rather than just trying to push another beat out the door at next to no return on investment (of time and in equipment and so on)
- my day job currently pays something on the order of $65 per hour,
- therefore a beat that takes me 10 hours to produce to a point where I can sell it has to be worth at least $650 in time,
- let alone the costs of every other aspect (creativity, equipment, overheads, etc)

Also you mentioned an auction.

We are aiming to have a contest approach opposed to an auction.

Our revenue will come from a small commission of each hosted contest.

We want this to be free for any producer to enter.

Only the artist would pay anything.

The commission the artist pays would be on top of the prize.

The artist would see the total cost, prize and commission before launching the contest.

Still smells like an auction, although this a reverse auction
- every one of the beatsmiths is a bidder but they are not paying anything
- if the client decides not to accept any of the offered goods, what then????

We are currently working on solutions, and will make the appropriate changes soon.


that is good

But I do want to ask you another question.

What if the artist submitted his brief of what he's looking for and what he wants to pay.

Producers submit their work but also the terms they would accept.

Negotiations are possible.

So a producer would win because of his work and because he and the artist agreed to conditions. Would that be more equal and fair?

it seems closer to the reality of the market place, but still has some issues that i can;t quite put my finger on right now

I know your privacy maybe important, but I would really like to know more about your background and work.

maybe in private - see my website in my sig for more on how to contact me or pm here at fp

Your opinion really helped us to think about a lot.

Our project is part of Startup weekend Detroit (check out detroit.startupweekend.org) and tomorrow we're being judged by experts and investors.

I would like to use parts of Futureproducers posters contribution as a part of our project and I'd like to tell a bit about you.

If you'd like you can e-mail me at soundmatching@gmail.com.

You too Heyclown.

as with anything that has been found on the internet, as long as it is appropriately referenced, it should be fair to use - see the terms of use https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/rules.php for more on what you can and cannot do with fp posts
 
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I would love to help this website.. it's awesome someone is in the making of this I support it. I'm a Hip-Hop artist and producer but started off making beats. This could be the next big thing for producers and artist looking for beats.
 
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I personally like the idea and have been looking for something like this for a while. I have already signed up as a producer and hope that we can work everything out to where the site will be ready to run soon cause I am very excited.
 
So... Spec Work? (http://www.nospec.com/faq)



-Ki
Salem Beats


Yes, the Artist would have to pay in advance to make sure that a producer gets paid for his effort. The Artist fills out a brief describing how he wants his/her beat, so each beat submitted will be customized for the artist. We don't think its likely that 20 customized beats based on what you asked for will all be bad. It seems you are answering from an artist prospective. Currently we are trying to develop the best product for producers. We will focus on Artists later in a different forum. If the contest doesn't get at least 20 unique entries the artist will be able to get a full refund.

A minimum of 95% (19/20) participating producers will walk away with nothing. How is this good for producers?

-Ki
Salem Beats
 
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