questions about copyright

[EnvisionaryLunacy]

Q1 ) ok so from what ive been reading the copyright rules in canada are you have the copyright of a song the moment you make it. now if my music is based on the use of lots of ''chopping'' and involves the usage of samples and pieces from loads of other songs ( i take a song [usually off youtube] and reverse it,change the pitch, chop it, reverb it and add a bunch of things to make it a completely different sounding song) am I violating any laws just by doing this, i feel as though i am doing something wrong


Q2) Does posting the source of my samples with my songs (posting the songs i use to make my new song that sounds different) help me in anyway to not get into trouble with the law or other people ?

Q3) i make music for the enjoyment of making music so i havent sold anything i have ever made, but i would really enjoy having a creative commons licence so anyone can use my music to help in creating there new music by adding lyrics or remixing it, or movies with it or w/e they want to use it for , is it possible for me to licence songs that i have made from other peoples songs under creative commons or is this infringing a copyright law towards the owners of the songs that i am using pieces of? (in short can someone make a song out of my song if my song is made out of someone elses)

Q4) i really enjoy collabing with other people, but if i do and they try to sell the song we made while collabing, will this negatively affect either party and break any music laws?

Q5) does advertising the music i make break any law



my goal is to just be heard , not fame or fortune

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 PM ----------

Q6) if someone tried to steal my music and use there name and say they created it, would i be able to sue them even though my music isnt really my music or how does that go? who wins these situations ???

 

[dvyce]

Q1 ) ok so from what ive been reading the copyright rules in canada are you have the copyright of a song the moment you make it. now if my music is based on the use of lots of ''chopping'' and involves the usage of samples and pieces from loads of other songs ( i take a song [usually off youtube] and reverse it,change the pitch, chop it, reverb it and add a bunch of things to make it a completely different sounding song) am I violating any laws just by doing this, i feel as though i am doing something wrong

You need permission to do what you described.I don't know if anybody will know if you have done it if you are manipulating the sample enough, but legally the copyrights in those samples belong to the person who made the original recording you sampled.

Q2) Does posting the source of my samples with my songs (posting the songs i use to make my new song that sounds different) help me in anyway to not get into trouble with the law or other people ?

no.

It does not help you any more than saying:

"Hey, stranger, while you were in the bathroom I ate your hamburger."

or

"Hello, sir, I am the person who broke into your house last week"

or

"I stole your homework and handed it in as my own"

or

"I told the boss I came up with that great idea that I saw sitting on your desk"

Q3) i make music for the enjoyment of making music so i havent sold anything i have ever made, but i would really enjoy having a creative commons licence so anyone can use my music to help in creating there new music by adding lyrics or remixing it, or movies with it or w/e they want to use it for , is it possible for me to licence songs that i have made from other peoples songs under creative commons or is this infringing a copyright law towards the owners of the songs that i am using pieces of? (in short can someone make a song out of my song if my song is made out of someone elses)

You cannot offer your songs which are made up of other peoples songs to people under a creative commons license (or any other license)... you were not given permission to use the other persons songs as raw materials for your new song so therefore you do not have the authority to allow other people to use them.

understand?

Q4) i really enjoy collabing with other people, but if i do and they try to sell the song we made while collabing, will this negatively affect either party and break any music laws?

You both need to agree regarding what to do with the songs you create together. You each have some ownership in the song.

Q5) does advertising the music i make break any law

If you are talking about the music you make by cutting up other people's songs... possibly (but I don't feel like getting into a long legal explanation of why... and it would depend on how you are advertising it...

Q6) if someone tried to steal my music and use there name and say they created it, would i be able to sue them even though my music isnt really my music or how does that go? who wins these situations ???

A bit hypocritical to want to sue people for stealing your music when your music would not exist if it were not for you stealing other peoples music... no?

 

[EnvisionaryLunacy]

could the owner of the original song sue the guy who is copying the song from me then? or would this get pinned on me somehow

---------- Post added at 03:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 AM ----------

I post the source to justify that the other person is the creator of the original work, yes i COULD get away with it for making it completely different but i dont have it in me to do that, and by advertise i basically just mean show my songs to lots of other people.
i cannot collab if i use a song that uses samples from another song? how do i get permission for anything like a movie ost? i find this really hard to accomplish.

---------- Post added at 03:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 AM ----------

does the owner of the original own the copyright to the songs I have made?

---------- Post added at 04:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 AM ----------


This sounds like a system where the innocence of saying that this is not entirely my work is more dangerous than the crime itself, a system where you are rewarded more if you hide the fact that you are stealing than if you admit that you need others work to inspire your own.Without being able to find the person to give you permission creativity itself becomes more limited. That sounds flawed and sad to me. Will i really be viewed as a thief for helping spread other peoples work?

---------- Post added at 04:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 AM ----------

how do i go about getting said songs legal then ?

 

[fdr]

two important things to remember about copyright law is:
1 - copyright violation is really only an issue when you are profiting from the copyrighted work of another without clearing the sample. if you don't release it commercially, then you don't have to clear it.

2 - the rights of copyright owners are enforced by the copyright owners themselves. this means enforcing copyrights is an expense the copyright owner has to bear. think about that for a moment.

no matter what sampling copyrighted work is a risk, but keeping those 2 things in mind you can make it a calculated risk if you choose.

 

[fataltone]

two important things to remember about copyright law is:
1 - copyright violation is really only an issue when you are profiting from the copyrighted work of another without clearing the sample. if you don't release it commercially, then you don't have to clear it.

2 - the rights of copyright owners are enforced by the copyright owners themselves. this means enforcing copyrights is an expense the copyright owner has to bear. think about that for a moment.

no matter what sampling copyrighted work is a risk, but keeping those 2 things in mind you can make it a calculated risk if you choose.

it's always a issue if you're making money or not off the production featuring the copyrighted samples....
but yeah you may not get sued
but you may get a cease and desist letter
to take down and stop promoting/selling the song with the copyright owners music

2. yes it's the copyright owner expense to bear at first to take you to court but if they win you will be play out and you will play for any legel fees the copyright owner had been billed

and please always read the gold sticky post at the top of this section all the questions on leasing,copyrights,etc.. are there

 

[fdr]

it's always a issue if you're making money or not off the production featuring the copyrighted samples....
but yeah you may not get sued
but you may get a cease and desist letter
to take down and stop promoting/selling the song with the copyright owners music

2. yes it's the copyright owner expense to bear at first to take you to court but if they win you will be play out and you will play for any legel fees the copyright owner had been billed

and please always read the gold sticky post at the top of this section all the questions on leasing,copyrights,etc.. are there

yes, you are right its a legal issue regardless of profiting or not. thanks for correcting that. in a strict legal sense anytime you reproduce a copyrighted work in any way its potentially an issue. so there is always a risk to legal exposure anytime you sample. when you get some experience out there in the real world its up to each to decide on taking the risk, and to make his own estimation of whether the risk is worth it.

 

[dvyce]

could the owner of the original song sue the guy who is copying the song from me then? or would this get pinned on me somehow

He could sue you because YOU sampled him... the trail leads back to you.

The other guy who is sampling you may not be technically doing anything illegal with the original sample BECAUSE he is not necessarily AWARE that he is sampling that other song... as far as he knows, he is sampling YOU (but the original artist can definitely stop him from using the sample regardless)... not whatever artist YOU sampled... but you cannot sue him because you are not the owner of your track in the first place... you can't sue someone for something you do not have the rights to in the first place... you would have no standing to sue.

I post the source to justify that the other person is the creator of the original work,

what do you think that will accomplish?

yes i COULD get away with it for making it completely different but i dont have it in me to do that

1. if the sample is so manipulated that it is completely unrecognizable, why bother using the sample at all? (fyi, most people think they have made their samples unrecognizable but they are really very obvious as to what they are from)

2. if it is completely unrecognizable, the owner will not know you used his work.

3. what exactly do you mean by "completely different"? do you mean "that sound used to be a piano but now it is an explosion sound"? or "that piano sample used to be E B E F E and now it is completely different because mine goes E E F F F# F# A and I put a delay and some distortion on it"?

and by advertise i basically just mean show my songs to lots of other people.

depends

i cannot collab if i use a song that uses samples from another song?

it all depends on what you do with the final product. If you are making a song to show your friends, it is fine... if you have millions of fans and are giving the song away (whether or not you "make money" from it is irrelevant), you can be sued... if you release an album using the sample, you can be sued and the label can be sued...

I mostly just comes down to whether the copyright owner cares, or not.

how do i get permission for anything like a movie ost?

contact the copyright owner... it will be on the movie credits or s/t album notes.

i find this really hard to accomplish.

So.

Think of it this way... you had to work less on your song since you sampled their work... not you can put that leftover effort into contacting the person who's work you sampled.

does the owner of the original own the copyright to the songs I have made?

Yes. It would be a "derivative work". The copyright owner has the exclusive right to make derivative works.

Well, he doesn't necessarily "own" it... but he can stop you from doing it... if he cares...

This sounds like a system where the innocence of saying that this is not entirely my work is more dangerous than the crime itself, a system where you are rewarded more if you hide the fact that you are stealing than if you admit that you need others work to inspire your own.Without being able to find the person to give you permission creativity itself becomes more limited. That sounds flawed and sad to me. Will i really be viewed as a thief for helping spread other peoples work?

You can be as creative as you want. You can sample whatever you want.

The problem comes in when you are trying to sell the track or distribute it... if you are just being creative and making music and putting it online and giving it to friends and stuff like that, you are fine...

But if you are hiring publicity agents and getting record deals and all that stuff, the original artist should have some say in how his stuff is used and should be compensated accordingly for the use...

Lets say you sample "Your Kiss Is On My List" by "Hall and Oates"... and your song becomes well known... now, since you have sampled their song, nobody else will want to sample it and they are losing that money they could have made from somebody else sampling it... or maybe somebody who would have wanted to use their song in a movie will now not want to use it because the song got "played out" from yours being everywhere...

Or think about it from the perspective of a song you wrote... what is you write a serious song about your friend who died called "You're Up There In Heaven"... then someone sampled "You're Up There" from your song and used it in his song "You're Up There (in my Butt)" talking about a girl who likes to stick her finger up his ass and it is a big viral hit... would you like to have some control over whether that is done with your very personal song?

You can be as creative as you want to be and do whatever you want... but when you are trying to get all business with your music, then it is a different story.

If it is just about the "art" and "creativity", then make your music, play it live, give it out... do whatever you want.

Do you see the difference?