T
The Light
Guest
A lot of old school industry heads always talk about one of the reasons that the music industry is on its last lifeline is because there is no artist development. Define artist development.
BOONIEBOYBEATS
MIDINOTEKILLA
I guess your own creativity or make your own path in music instead of biting whats hot easier said than done though
ThaRealKapone
...Only Kapone
I'm sure that I'm not covering all aspects of it but to put it in a nutshell, artist development is when labels or investors spend time and money on artists to help them find their voice and style, teach them business protocol and about interpersonal communication/relationships. Basically in the past they used to put artists through writing sessions, give them etiquette and music lessons (vocal training, piano classes, etc), take them to different places, put them in different situations and widen their views and communication skills. Correct me if I'm missing somethin', Im sure Fatal or one of the cats on here know a little more about it than me
I don't really understand why the industry would die without an A&R department at record labels. There are plenty of musicians out there developing themselves. It's not really a necessary part of a label. There is so much info out there, that people should be able to develop these skills on their own. Need music lessons? Um, you should already be getting those before you get a record deal, and you can find them for free online. Need to develop business skills? Read articles and go meet people. IMO, if you can't do this stuff on your own, you don't deserve a record deal anyway. It's just a way to sort the amateurs from the pros. And that's why some labels won't touch an artist until they have developed their own fan base. There enough musicians out there with good music that they don't need to waste their time/money on a lot of unambitious musicians.
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SingerSongwriter
New member
I agree with you satori, there is a degree of self sufficiency and ambition that an artist needs to have themselves. You cannot really teach that persay... However the rest of your comment is total rubbish, and heres why...
The whole definition of artist development is unclear because we don't have any focus on it... Yet it's the ONE major thing that NEEDS to be focused on.
The artists who get lucky with or for some reason have the inherent understanding and commitment to go and learn all they can and actually have all the talent, are so few and far between that there are really two options... One, the FEW who make it, will get all the rewards and will get everything they've dreamed of... Meanwhile the rest,because there is no artist development will suffer from lack of knowledge and training.
It's a fundamental question of how do you facilitate that artist development process.
There are some indivudal coaches and people who are doing that already.. But nit enough.
I'm not going to try to answer and specifically define what artist development actually entails because it's slightly different for each person... And it's going to take a while for me to totally define it...
But essentially artist development = the experiential process of growth as both a person and in terms of their creative talent, until they are at a self actualized level.
The thing is that this is More of an art than it is a science... This is why labels don't want to deal with it, and IS why they are dying.
The world evolved overnight, and this the way it's going to be forever.
Their are certain skills, certain qualities, mentalities and tools, and then there is the persons talent... When all of those are put together, you have a success...
Not necessarily meaning a lady gaga or a justinbieber...
But someone who has a well developed craft and clear goal and contribution they want to make in ther career, and are living that purpose.
That's success in the new music industry. Artist development is important, you just don't know what it is yet, and people don't know how to "quantify" it.
The whole definition of artist development is unclear because we don't have any focus on it... Yet it's the ONE major thing that NEEDS to be focused on.
The artists who get lucky with or for some reason have the inherent understanding and commitment to go and learn all they can and actually have all the talent, are so few and far between that there are really two options... One, the FEW who make it, will get all the rewards and will get everything they've dreamed of... Meanwhile the rest,because there is no artist development will suffer from lack of knowledge and training.
It's a fundamental question of how do you facilitate that artist development process.
There are some indivudal coaches and people who are doing that already.. But nit enough.
I'm not going to try to answer and specifically define what artist development actually entails because it's slightly different for each person... And it's going to take a while for me to totally define it...
But essentially artist development = the experiential process of growth as both a person and in terms of their creative talent, until they are at a self actualized level.
The thing is that this is More of an art than it is a science... This is why labels don't want to deal with it, and IS why they are dying.
The world evolved overnight, and this the way it's going to be forever.
Their are certain skills, certain qualities, mentalities and tools, and then there is the persons talent... When all of those are put together, you have a success...
Not necessarily meaning a lady gaga or a justinbieber...
But someone who has a well developed craft and clear goal and contribution they want to make in ther career, and are living that purpose.
That's success in the new music industry. Artist development is important, you just don't know what it is yet, and people don't know how to "quantify" it.
If you don't have the ambition to do these things yourself, do you really present yourself as an artist worthy of an investment of time/money? Apparently not, according to the businessmen/women.
Really? Where is the evidence of that? I'm pretty sure they're dying because people are stealing most of their music. A lack of A&R departments or their change in role is more part of the effects of a dying industry rather than the cause. The information age has also allowed artists to do a lot of that stuff on their own, so it's one less than for a label to deal with and risk. Labels didn't start dying off because A&R departments were shrinking/changing, but because the internet created an easy system of data theft. THAT is what correlates with the consolidation of record labels.
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SingerSongwriter
New member
No you are missing the whole point. The record labels are dying because the whole world changed,and they didn't adapt to it. This is simply the music business, phasing the Businessmen who are running dinosaur model record labels out.
also, music theft is just a negative aspect of the new music business. It is not the reason for the record labels going down.It is the MUSIC business not the business music. So it was only a matter of time before It got rid of the greedy cats trying to exploit it.
Not that thus applies to everyone, but in one way or another, it's adapt or die.
Wrong. lol. Look at how illegal downloads correlate to a loss of sales and the downfall of record labels. "The whole world changed and they didn't adapt to it." Yeah, it's called "shit got stolen and they didn't find a way to compete with free fast enough."
There's absolutely no argument for the changing of A&R department's being the downfall of the industry. You're talking out of your ass and ignoring the evidence.
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SingerSongwriter
New member
digiave.net/piracy-didnt-kill-the-music-business
Read that article.
(you have to type in the URL, it won't let me.)
No dude, you are absolutely wrong. You Are being narrow minded. I realize on the one hand I don't have a great argument, but that's because it would take a long time to explain, and I don't think it's worth explaining.
Read that article.
(you have to type in the URL, it won't let me.)
No dude, you are absolutely wrong. You Are being narrow minded. I realize on the one hand I don't have a great argument, but that's because it would take a long time to explain, and I don't think it's worth explaining.
This article tries to say that one hit wonders started in the 90's. wtf
Your basic argument is that there aren't artists out there capable of developing their own artistic and business skills, and therefore, people are buying less music and stealing more. lol, that's just crazy. Here are the facts: most people steal most of their music. That means fewer sales. Now, you're trying to claim that they aren't stealing music because it's easier than paying, but because labels don't have A&R departments. The fact that people are stealing music can not be disputed, but you seem to be completely ignoring the fact that billions of dollars worth of music has been stolen and attributed to the fall of record labels. That's just insanity. I mean, how could you think that people stealing billions of dollars worth of music could NOT significantly impact the industry?
The author of that article even admits that labels screwed themselves by not getting into legal downloads soon enough (although, I'd argue that a lot of people would steal anyway; why wouldn't they?).
More Evidence for Copyright Protection | Copyhype
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SingerSongwriter
New member
Look dude... This is one of those arguments that two people are looking at the same thing from two completely different perspectives...
This argument will never have a definite YES, or NO that's RIGHT or WRONG. You will always find flaws in my argument, and i will always find flaws in yours.
Waste of time for me.
I am not in a place where i can devote a whole lot of time to trying to flesh this out, so let's just sum up both sides of the argument, so theres no misunderstanding.
First, i am NOT saying that piracy of music didn't have a significant effect on the the death of the 20th century record label.
It was a model that was born and existed for the second half the last century. It only existed until the internet came because they had control, and then the internet came and leveled the playing field.
All of the sudden studio technology, and communication tools empowered EVERYone and anyone to make and produce music and be an ARTIST.
The problem was... No one knew how to use it all yet...
INSTEAD OF the record labels doing what was best for MUSIC, and for the DEVELOPMENT of artists by supporting them and helping them by using the tools that were available... They ignored it, started BLAMING the internet and SUING everyone all the while trying to somehow MAINTAIN control over something that they AREN'T supposed to OWN.
Now, i am NOT saying that they are useless, record labels will always exist because we will always have a justin bieber, and a lady gaga.
They are not neccessarily WRONG, for NOT adapting, but the fact that they did, is the PRIMARY reason why they are less appealing, and for me, they are just a suit with connections and lots of money.
THATS COOL. WE still could use that. BUT, what happened today, is that we are now in control of our OWN destiny and musical career without them.
I'm not saying there were some people with a suit and tie sitting around and making some conscious decision, but what happened, and what you CANNOT overlook is that fundamentally, they did NOT ADAPT... That is all there is too it.
Yes, piracy hurt. Im not saying it didnt..
What im saying is that IT was the EFFECT of an underlying CAUSE. and even if that CAUSE was not KNOWN by the people who were in a position to do something about it, it was still what happened.
I don't have any I HATE THOSE CORPORATE THUGS mentality of any kind.. But the REAL fact is this...
Once upon a time, if you wanted to be a "STAR" you needed a record label.
This record label made multiple multiple multiple TIMES the amount of money that you did, it was a business, and you played by their rules.
Well, this little thing came along called the internet, Direct to Fan, and home studios...
EVERYONE SUDDENLY had access to EVERYTHING, 24-7.
Those who didn't adapt, were either forced out of BUSINESS, or were FORCED to adapt their model.
From a musical artists perspective.... This is a good thing!
It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of what is....
Technology changed everything.
What could they have done?
Well, who knows? I could probably come up with a few brilliant ideas that they COULD have done, but that's a waste of my brain power and energy. BUT the ONE thing they could have done, and THE ONLY thing they needed to do was to try to come up with some solutions from the mindset of "HOW can this BENEFIT the MUSIC and the Artists?" How can WE as influencers, embrace this amazing revolution and opportunity and use our position to better the future of musical artists, and the our culture.
PERIOD.
End of story.
Now, if you wanna call it the "musical gods" weeding out the business man, or "Evening the score," which there may be something too, or you wanna say that it was a coincidence and a few oversights by a few key players, who knows...?
Who cares... THAT'S what HAPPENED. Fact. Not Disputable.
Piracy was a symptom. NOT the real problem.
Why?
BECAUSE if they had embraced the evolution, AND looked out for SUPPORTING artists growth and producing GREAT MUSIC for people, THEN the piracy would be a MINOR problem, just like it is for every other INFORMATION PUBLISHER these days.
But THEY are KILLING IT. The piracy of their stuff is a mere "blip" on their radar. They are the NEW MONEY MASTERS because they are inherently CREATING value, and the mindset is completely different.
How can you contest this?
This argument will never have a definite YES, or NO that's RIGHT or WRONG. You will always find flaws in my argument, and i will always find flaws in yours.
Waste of time for me.
I am not in a place where i can devote a whole lot of time to trying to flesh this out, so let's just sum up both sides of the argument, so theres no misunderstanding.
First, i am NOT saying that piracy of music didn't have a significant effect on the the death of the 20th century record label.
It was a model that was born and existed for the second half the last century. It only existed until the internet came because they had control, and then the internet came and leveled the playing field.
All of the sudden studio technology, and communication tools empowered EVERYone and anyone to make and produce music and be an ARTIST.
The problem was... No one knew how to use it all yet...
INSTEAD OF the record labels doing what was best for MUSIC, and for the DEVELOPMENT of artists by supporting them and helping them by using the tools that were available... They ignored it, started BLAMING the internet and SUING everyone all the while trying to somehow MAINTAIN control over something that they AREN'T supposed to OWN.
Now, i am NOT saying that they are useless, record labels will always exist because we will always have a justin bieber, and a lady gaga.
They are not neccessarily WRONG, for NOT adapting, but the fact that they did, is the PRIMARY reason why they are less appealing, and for me, they are just a suit with connections and lots of money.
THATS COOL. WE still could use that. BUT, what happened today, is that we are now in control of our OWN destiny and musical career without them.
I'm not saying there were some people with a suit and tie sitting around and making some conscious decision, but what happened, and what you CANNOT overlook is that fundamentally, they did NOT ADAPT... That is all there is too it.
Yes, piracy hurt. Im not saying it didnt..
What im saying is that IT was the EFFECT of an underlying CAUSE. and even if that CAUSE was not KNOWN by the people who were in a position to do something about it, it was still what happened.
I don't have any I HATE THOSE CORPORATE THUGS mentality of any kind.. But the REAL fact is this...
Once upon a time, if you wanted to be a "STAR" you needed a record label.
This record label made multiple multiple multiple TIMES the amount of money that you did, it was a business, and you played by their rules.
Well, this little thing came along called the internet, Direct to Fan, and home studios...
EVERYONE SUDDENLY had access to EVERYTHING, 24-7.
Those who didn't adapt, were either forced out of BUSINESS, or were FORCED to adapt their model.
From a musical artists perspective.... This is a good thing!
It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of what is....
Technology changed everything.
What could they have done?
Well, who knows? I could probably come up with a few brilliant ideas that they COULD have done, but that's a waste of my brain power and energy. BUT the ONE thing they could have done, and THE ONLY thing they needed to do was to try to come up with some solutions from the mindset of "HOW can this BENEFIT the MUSIC and the Artists?" How can WE as influencers, embrace this amazing revolution and opportunity and use our position to better the future of musical artists, and the our culture.
PERIOD.
End of story.
Now, if you wanna call it the "musical gods" weeding out the business man, or "Evening the score," which there may be something too, or you wanna say that it was a coincidence and a few oversights by a few key players, who knows...?
Who cares... THAT'S what HAPPENED. Fact. Not Disputable.
Piracy was a symptom. NOT the real problem.
Why?
BECAUSE if they had embraced the evolution, AND looked out for SUPPORTING artists growth and producing GREAT MUSIC for people, THEN the piracy would be a MINOR problem, just like it is for every other INFORMATION PUBLISHER these days.
But THEY are KILLING IT. The piracy of their stuff is a mere "blip" on their radar. They are the NEW MONEY MASTERS because they are inherently CREATING value, and the mindset is completely different.
How can you contest this?
So would you guys define artist development as teaching the artist about the business side of music and taking vocal lessons? I'm trying to figure out how I'd develop the first artist I sign. I've seen that there are artist development companies but it doesn't seem like they work with record labels.