How can we make FP a "Better Place"?

zoo

zoo

New member
So I've been deliberating whether or not to create this thread for a while...

I've been a member of this forum since May of this year and I have appreciated all the benefits of an online community of similar interests. I see great value in this hub, the moderators who maintain it and the members who contribute.

On a more recent level I've noticed a few posts on here about how great this site USED to be, or how much better it WAS.

A lot of younger people might not understand that concept. You're thinking this site seems pretty good right now. However, we live an age where we want, actually no, demand instant everything. I would imagine this is why you will often see more "Guests" than "members" navigating these forums.

These younger people see no value in registering and getting involved in the community. Society constantly (and increasingly) promotes individualism over a team effort, or a community effort. The information age gives people a "Do It Yourself" mentality. The idea of needing other's is forgotten. For these younger people this place is like a free pass to a library where you don't have to return the book.

So you find kids only register to ask an "urgent" question and then they're gone again. They're gone until they have another urgent question. They don't give anything back, they don't get inspired.

You're probably wondering why I'm on such a rant but the point is this. The world is changing. The way in which people behave is changing. Should FutureProducers not "change" as well?

All you guys talking about how "great" this place USED to be will probably admit nothing has CHANGED on this forum since those "great" times. At least very little anyway, right? Now I don't mean the attitude of members hasn't changed, but I mean the layout, the levels of engagement etc.

How can a community remain great, functioning, friendly, welcoming, inspiring, self-serving in a more and more digital age unless it adapts to deal with that?

TL;DR VERSION:

Thus, my question to you guys is, what would you like changed on here? What differences do you guys think would result in the kind of community FP used to boast? I'm pretty sure there are some pretty practical steps that could be taken to adapt this place to the changing environment. I imagine there are some changes that would demand more administrative powers from the owners of the site, but at least they might see this and take note. So get brainstorming!
 
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I think what we have to do is study how it used to be, sort of see where thing went right and where things went wrong.

Get the OG's in this thread and break it down. Forumology.
 
DjPolair said:
I think what we have to do is study how it used to be, sort of see where thing went right and where things went wrong.

Get the OG's in this thread and break it down. Forumology.
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Agreed but the problem is nobody looks in the "Make A Better Place" section. But, you're the boss!
 
structures are inherently static due to seo considerations

but the goal posts around seo have changed a few times (with the most recent moving away from the older models of seo towards a more strict content and contextual basis rather than keyword adaptations and adoptions) since this particular argument was rolled out, so now may be a good time to consider radical or not so radical but practical changes

We have made a start already by reorganising some of the sticky threads in recording and legal reducing them from more than 10 to 4 or 5 in each forum area

the other forums are set to receive a similar reworking on their sticky threads, as well as some forums to actually receive some stickies

it takes time to do these things as with anything - moving too fast and we can stuff things up; moving too slow and we lose the opportunity.

tell us what needs to be done - I can't promise anything but I can listen and contribute to the discussion

I'll link some older public discussion threads on this subject as well to see if some old ideas are ready to fly now

I'm letting admins and other mods who may not have seen this know that there is grass roots discussion on this score happening; carpe diem

zoo said:
Agreed but the problem is nobody looks in the "Make A Better Place" section. But, you're the boss!
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I moved it to make a better place and left a redirect in rnb/hiphop/rap - this site is about more than just urban music (for want of a better nomenclature)

see the rest of my comments to understand how we can make this work - it is almost the weekend and the drunken trolls will be out (just saying is all :), some readily admit they troll hard when drunk and for the most part as long as it stays in the breakroom areas, we let it go) as well as the serious folks who want to see improvement

What won't happen is a loosening of moderation policy - gearslutz (the most often cited alternate destination by those who get butt hurt about being moderated) according to several independent and local opinions does not tolerate 1% of what we tolerate here at fp, so, if anything, we should probably tighten up moderation policy, but that won't happen either :)
 
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I have a dream. That one day a hundred thousand people will frequent FP. I have a dream. that WSHH will look to us with jealous eyes..

We have to lead by example. And we have to do some organizing. We shall encourage each other to be honest. If everybody spoke honestly and openly this community would become more vibrant. We should organize weekly threads where we discuss a certain subject.

We need to be less quick to ban trouble makers. Some of the longest threads have came from those.

There shall be some commitment. Like a family that eats dinner together every night.

There shall be some common goals, projects we can work on as a community.

Often when there is nothing to aspire to, you get bored. And if we're bored as a community, the community will be boring.

I guess, there shall be purpose.

This forum lacks a big purpose.
 
  • When was the last battle held?
  • last mix-off went nowhere - no one entered so it was just erased from the memory (it was mix-off 4)
  • the last master-off also failed because the managing member disappeared
  • an fp sanctioned mixtape would be cool
    • but who decides what makes the cut and what doesn't ?
    • need to pick folks who have standing and respect (not necessarily mods, but that would be the first pool to consider drawing from) to be the committee deciding what makes it and what doesn't
    • all samples will require clearance (can't see audiofanzine letting it be otherwise) before being submitted for consideration
    • as with any large project, timelines are likely to be months rather than weeks
    • so maybe a quarterly release or biannual release (means every six months)
  • An fp sanctioned podcast series done on a monthly basis
    • rotating hosts selected from a pool of hopefuls
    • some support in preparing the podcast may be provided from a more experienced member (or at least someone who has done a few podcasts previously)
    • maximum of 3 minutes excerpt for each track (allows up to 20 tracks for a 60 minute podacst)
    • 1 week call for submission in its own dedicated forum
    • 2 weeks to produce
    • released last week of each month
    • cycle the process
    • might need audiofanzine to buy a pro account at soundcloud to host these
  • the troublemakers have in the main been banned for things they wrote in private messages to mods and admins or other people, not for their public postings
    • you do not really know what happens before someone is banned
    • so accept that we ban as a step of last resort, not first (unless you are an unrepenting/unrelenting spammer or troll)
 
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DjPolair said:
This thread won't go anywhere If we don't make other regs participate.
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I've got to agree with Polair.

People just don't look in this section of the forum as much as the others (whether there is a transfer link or not)! I understand you're just doing your job, bandcoach.

Good suggestions so far. Battles still have value, you just need more of an incentive than "pride" to catch the eye of these kids...
 
I think we need to settle this question here..

What do we want FP to be like. What would it look like If it were at its best. And when we got a general agreement which can be summarized in a couple sentences we can work with that and start making efforts to go into that direction.

So guys from way back gotta come in here and participate. I wasn't around when this place was in its prime.
 
Good ideas and discussion so far. I love the podcast idea. I think in addition to featuring FP tracks/talent, interviews, reviews, and tutorials would be cool there. Maybe as an adjunct/semi-promotional arm of Audiofanzine?? The mixtape would be cool, but I see lots of challenges.

I participate in three separate forum-based message board sites on a regular basis (like, daily or multiple times daily), and have a handful of others that I check-out once in awhile (a few times a week to every few months). This is one of them (check daily or more), and there are great things about all three of them. I hardly ever go to Gearslutz. I don't think I'd advocate "being more like Gearslutz." Just MHO...

GJ
 
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I literally just signed up for this forum, and I plan on sticking around and meeting some new people. This was an interesting read, thank you for posting. :)
 
so I just stickied this over in urban music discussion forum - should make it more visible to the old and new heads alike

also just changed the title to "how can we make fp a better place?" - just makes more sense than "what do we need?"
 
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Have the powers that be at FP considered creating and maintaining a Youtube channel? Regular uploads of video's, reviews, contests, tutorials, debates etc. I think that it would lead to more traffic on the forum site especially if "futureproducers.com" was plugged on every video with provided links and graphics on the screen. Registered forum members with a minimum number of posts (250 would be my suggestion because you know that these people are invested in FP) would be eligible to submit video's to the Mods and the Mods could decide if the video makes it on to the channel or not. I mean who wouldn't like/watch a monthly theory tutorial by Bandcoach? I know I would. Or an "Ask Bandcoach" video every now and then? I'd like to hear/watch a rant from some of the vets like BiggRome, J Troup, Deranged and some others. Wouldn't a beat battle be more fun if it was a more visual kind of experience? I know that sounds like an oxymoron but I would like to see some of the guys in the "Flip This" forum chopping samples and see how some of have your gear set up.

My point is, if futureproducers.com was a brand, instead of a single website, it would attract tons more people. It would be an overwhelming job for one guy but a team of people could make an awesome channel and I think that it would trickle over into more people visiting and ultimately registering on FP. More people means more points of view which, IMO, would make this a better experience for all. When a person asks a question in the Youtube comments, provide them with a link to the appropriate thread instead of answering it directly. If you do a tutorial on how to create a "super wobbly growly monster laser dubstep bass". You could offer the patch as a download to registered FP members to give people the incentive to register instead of just peruse the threads as visitors. More "new blood" will lead to more interaction. More interaction will lead to more participation. More participation will mean a more lively experience on fp. Of course you'll attract mostly "noobs' but aren't the "noobs" of today the producers of the future?.... Just a thought.

I also like the podcast idea but it would be even better if it was video recorded and posted to youtube...
 
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vodcast is cool but requires much more production time (for the vodcasters input/presence) and what do you do for those tracks that don't have visuals?
 
Promotion is a practical incentive that any artist will gladly take for an increased activity in battles etc. for sure

Tutorials are also a great idea.

I guess an image on the video of the artist's branding as well as FP's would be a viable alternative for those without visuals...

A FutureProducers' channel on YouTube would be a fantastic idea. The Facebook page has what? 3k likes? A video channel would generate massive attention, especially if it was promoting community members' work.

The post count idea is questionable, in my opinion. The whole idea behind this kind of project would be to create a buzz, putting an application requirement on this kind of stuff will deter potential community members, not encourage them. (Although I guess this depends on the video theme in general, if it was a tutorial which is heavily knowledge based I understand the motive but then again surely the mods would be able to filter out the stuff that simply isn't productive content.)

Other than that great contribution Halfnhalf.
 
I actually disagree on post-counts - a postcount is an indicator of engagement in the community though of course it could be inflated by posting shizzle in the breakroom and the gossip rooms (the music genre rooms are classified as gossip which is why there is so much leeway given in terms of what can be said between members in them)

indeed the big issue is one of quality control - do we really want just anything being accepted for podacst/vodcast/yt channel/etc.

the moment we move to quality control measures there are wider issues of compensation for time - none of the moderators are paid (afaik at least)

I've got to head out, more on this all later
 
bandcoach said:
I actually disagree on post-counts - a postcount is an indicator of engagement in the community though of course it could be inflated by posting shizzle in the breakroom and the gossip rooms (the music genre rooms are classified as gossip which is why there is so much leeway given in terms of what can be said between members in them)

indeed the big issue is one of quality control - do we really want just anything being accepted for podacst/vodcast/yt channel/etc.

the moment we move to quality control measures there are wider issues of compensation for time - none of the moderators are paid (afaik at least)

I've got to head out, more on this all later
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Well the way I look at it is, you want to translate the majority of activity/traffic etc. on this website into productive community members. How do you do that? By incentivising productive involvement. I imagine, currently, there are twice as many guests as members navigating these forums at any given time (I could be wrong).

I'm not sure if a post count is a logically sound proposition...

If I'm a new, young member and every time I apply to get my shit promoted on the FP channel I get rejected because I don't have as many forum posts as the other guy, (in most cases), I'll become pretty demotivated.

Now, you could say this "sifts through the shit" and separartes the men from the boys, but shouldn't a community like this encourage the people STARTING out too? I can only see it as being a demotivating factor in getting involved in a healthy, spirited community forum.
 
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bandcoach said:
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the moment we move to quality control measures there are wider issues of compensation for time - none of the moderators are paid (afaik at least)
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If the YT channel attracted enough views and subscriptions then it could become monetized. I'm no expert on what exactly the requirements are for that but there are people who make a living entirely off of posting YT video's i.e the Hodge Twins. Of course it would take an upfront investment of time and energy on the part of the Mods who would participate and only they can decide if the potential pay off is worth the investment. And how that money is divided up between them is none of my business

My thought process for requiring minimum posts was to link the forum and the YT channel and to try to prevent the Mods from becoming inundated with random video submissions by people who don't care to become part of the FP community but i can see the points that both of the previous poster's made regarding that requirement.
 
zoo said:
Well the way I look at it is, you want to translate the majority of activity/traffic etc. on this website into productive community members. How do you do that? By incentivising productive involvement. I imagine, currently, there are twice as many guests as members navigating these forums at any given time (I could be wrong).

I'm not sure if a post count is a logically sound proposition...

If I'm a new, young member and every time I apply to get my shit promoted on the FP channel I get rejected because I don't have as many forum posts as the other guy, (in most cases), I'll become pretty demotivated.

Now, you could say this "sifts through the shit" and separates the men from the boys, but shouldn't a community like this encourage the people STARTING out too? I can only see it as being a demotivating factor in getting involved in a healthy, spirited community forum.
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250 reviews how hard is that?

They would also get pissed if they were rejected because there work was not up to scratch - no-one likes to be told they suck when everyone in their lives is pissing in their pockets telling them how great they are
 
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