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Thread: Tracktion 3 vs ableton live vs SONAR?

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    SmooveMode's Avatar
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    Tracktion 3 vs ableton live vs SONAR?

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    I just read a little bit about traction 3. How does it compare with the other two mentioned items?

    It seems cool!

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    kb420 is offline Old School Old Head
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    I don't know much about Trackion, but actually, I just bought another Mackie mixer and it came with a free version of Traktion. I haven't installed it or played with it yet. When I do, I'll let you know what I think.
    Long Live the Old School!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb420
    I don't know much about Trackion, but actually, I just bought another Mackie mixer and it came with a free version of Traktion. I haven't installed it or played with it yet. When I do, I'll let you know what I think.
    Thanks KB!!

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    too_late_prod is offline Registered User
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    I have tried all 3 mentioned and it really depends on your workflow.. personally, i dig Live. Its easy to manipulate loops, MIDI, tempo based fx. Sonar I have never liked, feels too clunky and old. And Tracktion is kinda cool... just a diff approach to me.

    Do you use loops, MIDI, record audio? That may help narrow down what u need..

    later..

    too_late

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    LevLover is offline Registered User
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    I tried sonar, i have traction since it came with my satellite, and i use Live regularly. I have nothing good to say about sonar, except Trusty and xabition use it. Traction is easy for someone who has never used anything before, Live is the best of the bunch. Thats just my personal opinion tho. If i had to shoode, it'd be Live over all the others.
    LevLove

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    Quote Originally Posted by too_late_prod
    I have tried all 3 mentioned and it really depends on your workflow.. personally, i dig Live. Its easy to manipulate loops, MIDI, tempo based fx. Sonar I have never liked, feels too clunky and old. And Tracktion is kinda cool... just a diff approach to me.

    Do you use loops, MIDI, record audio? That may help narrow down what u need..

    later..

    too_late
    I'm not big on loops. But it seems like tracktion and Live are good with that. I agree with sonar. It's too complicated and I want to focus more on music. I tried to like it. But it's more like an "engineer's" tool. I have about 15 days left on the Sonar demo. So, I will give it a chance. But, the work flow ai'nt flowin' for me.

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    You are not the only one who feels like that about Sonar when it comes to composing. Check out this thread someone started yesterday.

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1381983

    Sonar is excellent for recording audio. If you had a studio with a soundproof room miked up to a band playing live instruments, Sonar would be your go to tool. It handles recording and editing audio extremely well. That is, if you have a powerful pc. Once you start piling on track after track and effects, Sonar will begin to show latency. That's where Pro Tools HD wins the battle. You won't have any latency with a HD Accel system. That's why I think all the magazine advertisements Cakewalk has made bashing Pro Tools are kinda funny.

    Sonar was the first software that I ever used. I know it well enough to work with it. I can compose, mix, and basically do everything with it, but the learning curve was ridiculous, and I find composing in it very cumbersome. Up until version 6.2.1, I don't even believe Cakewalk was even concerned with users who primarily compose with midi. Sonar didn't even have input quantize until then, which is a joke. I went on a crusade on the forum to get them to include it in Sonar 6 as that (Sonar 5) was my main program back then.

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=819211&mpage=1&key=

    When Sonar 6 was released, it didn't have it. They came out with a points release a few months later that included it, and Sonar 7 has a few more midi editing tools, but the bottom line is, it's still cumbersome to compose with. I just want to get ideas down as quick as possible, and I can do that best with Live.

    I believe part of the problem is that they are carrying Project 5. Project 5 is a lot easier to get ideas down very quickly compared to Sonar, but personally, once I discovered Live, P5 appeared to be Cakewalk's own scaled down version of Live. The Groove Matrix is just a copy of Live's Session View. It seemed like Live is what P5 would be if Cakewalk chose to develop it, but at this point, it doesn't seem like that's happening. P5 took 2 and 1/2 years to go from 2.0 to 2.5, and P5 users were promised another free update before the end of last year, and it still hasn't happened. Cakewalk hasn't developed P5, so to try to keep competitive, they've slashed the price of P5 to nothing. When it was first released they wanted $299, now I think you can get it for $99. Hardcore P5 users have been completely pissed of about not getting the second free update like Cakewalk promised. I believe Cakewalk wanted it's users to have to use two programs to be able to compose with midi and then mix as well. That's why they came up with the Cakwalk Suite which included Sonar 7, and the underdeveloped P5. Sonar is cumbersome for composing, and P5 doesn't have a mixer with decent metering.

    I think you will see a change over at Cakewalk. In a few months, they will be announcing/releasing Sonar 8. I think they will add more features to Sonar and end up dropping P5. They will make it so that you won't need P5. Everything that P5 does will be incorporated into Sonar. At least that's what I think they should do. That could make Sonar a much better program.

    Even Digidesign is trying to make Pro Tools a lot more user friendly when it comes to working with loops, beats, and midi. Version 7 included a lot of new midi features, and now they are developing a new plug in that will almost make it so that you won't need any other software for composing at all.

    http://www2.digidesign.com/transfuse...fuserpreview-m

    All in all, it's a great time to be into computer software for music. We are all benefiting from the competition among the different companies. Fall will be here before you know it. Let's watch them fight it out and see what happens when the dust settles.
    Long Live the Old School!!!!
    http://soundcloud.com/nefilimgod/5minutes

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    Quote Originally Posted by kb420
    You are not the only one who feels like that about Sonar when it comes to composing. Check out this thread someone started yesterday.

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1381983

    Sonar is excellent for recording audio. If you had a studio with a soundproof room miked up to a band playing live instruments, Sonar would be your go to tool. It handles recording and editing audio extremely well. That is, if you have a powerful pc. Once you start piling on track after track and effects, Sonar will begin to show latency. That's where Pro Tools HD wins the battle. You won't have any latency with a HD Accel system. That's why I think all the magazine advertisements Cakewalk has made bashing Pro Tools are kinda funny.

    Sonar was the first software that I ever used. I know it well enough to work with it. I can compose, mix, and basically do everything with it, but the learning curve was ridiculous, and I find composing in it very cumbersome. Up until version 6.2.1, I don't even believe Cakewalk was even concerned with users who primarily compose with midi. Sonar didn't even have input quantize until then, which is a joke. I went on a crusade on the forum to get them to include it in Sonar 6 as that (Sonar 5) was my main program back then.

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=819211&mpage=1&key=

    When Sonar 6 was released, it didn't have it. They came out with a points release a few months later that included it, and Sonar 7 has a few more midi editing tools, but the bottom line is, it's still cumbersome to compose with. I just want to get ideas down as quick as possible, and I can do that best with Live.

    I believe part of the problem is that they are carrying Project 5. Project 5 is a lot easier to get ideas down very quickly compared to Sonar, but personally, once I discovered Live, P5 appeared to be Cakewalk's own scaled down version of Live. The Groove Matrix is just a copy of Live's Session View. It seemed like Live is what P5 would be if Cakewalk chose to develop it, but at this point, it doesn't seem like that's happening. P5 took 2 and 1/2 years to go from 2.0 to 2.5, and P5 users were promised another free update before the end of last year, and it still hasn't happened. Cakewalk hasn't developed P5, so to try to keep competitive, they've slashed the price of P5 to nothing. When it was first released they wanted $299, now I think you can get it for $99. Hardcore P5 users have been completely pissed of about not getting the second free update like Cakewalk promised. I believe Cakewalk wanted it's users to have to use two programs to be able to compose with midi and then mix as well. That's why they came up with the Cakwalk Suite which included Sonar 7, and the underdeveloped P5. Sonar is cumbersome for composing, and P5 doesn't have a mixer with decent metering.

    I think you will see a change over at Cakewalk. In a few months, they will be announcing/releasing Sonar 8. I think they will add more features to Sonar and end up dropping P5. They will make it so that you won't need P5. Everything that P5 does will be incorporated into Sonar. At least that's what I think they should do. That could make Sonar a much better program.

    Even Digidesign is trying to make Pro Tools a lot more user friendly when it comes to working with loops, beats, and midi. Version 7 included a lot of new midi features, and now they are developing a new plug in that will almost make it so that you won't need any other software for composing at all.

    http://www2.digidesign.com/transfuse...fuserpreview-m

    All in all, it's a great time to be into computer software for music. We are all benefiting from the competition among the different companies. Fall will be here before you know it. Let's watch them fight it out and see what happens when the dust settles.
    KB, Very well said!!

    Did you get a chance to play with Tracktion? I did, a little and it seemed pretty cool. I like the concept of everything being in one spot. But, I found that it was a little "clicky". But, before I give it a score, I'm going to do what I should have done before and get a good audio interface.

    KB, Have you written a review on the MPD 32 yet? Did you fine the keys hard to press? Let me know?

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    neverenoughfunk is offline Insane FP Patriot
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    basically, i think all DAWs (ie applications ==>cubase, live, logic, sonar, et) are the same. they all record midi and audio data and are able to manipulate that data. the same way microsoft word, word perfect, etc work. you type in your report, edit the layout, spell check and grammer check and you are done. the way the data is manipulated may differ from DAW to DAW but the actual function is the same, just as word processing software. microsoft word does not produce better papers than other word processing software and vise-visa. the actual content of the paper indicates if the paper is well written or not.

    all DAWs have tranport bar, punch in/out, loop recording, piano roll, etc the workflow may differ but the functions are the same.

    the only differents between different DAWs is the terminlogy they use for the different functions. like live has the session view but there is a function (not sure of the name) in cubase that acts like the session view in live.

    it is not about which DAW is better but which DAW has one mastered because they all do the same thing.
    Last edited by neverenoughfunk; 05-09-2008 at 08:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neverenoughfunk
    basically, i think all DAWs (ie applications ==>cubase, live, logic, sonar, et) are the same. they all record midi and audio data and are able to manipulate that data. the same way microsoft word, word perfect, etc work. you type in your report, edit the layout, spell check and grammer check and you are done. the way the data is manipulated may differ from DAW to DAW but the actual function is the same, just as word processing software. microsoft word does not produce better papers than other word processing software and vise-visa. the actual content of the paper indicates if the paper is well written or not.

    all DAWs have tranport bar, punch in/out, loop recording, piano roll, etc the workflow may differ be the functions are the same.

    the only differents between different DAWs is the terminlogy they use for the different functions. like live has the session view but there is a function (not sure of the name) in cubase that acts like the session view in live.

    it is not about which DAW is better but which DAW has one mastered because they all do the same thing.
    I agree and disagree. I believe stating that all DAWs are the same could be mis read. REASON is a DAW. But, it's missing audio. If you tell someone that all DAWs are the same, they may take it literally and may buy something that does not have what they need.

    I see DAWs as a category of audio/midi manipulation software. It's important to know the differences between them. For example:

    SONAR is one of the best studio DAWs you can buy. But, to take this application to a live event on a laptop with average specs is asking for trouble.

    A-Live you can take that same laptop that SONAR would crash on and A-Live will operate flawlessly with less latency and no popping.

    I like to classify DAWs in 3 categories.

    1. Amature DAWs- Sparce features, easy to use, good for messin' around at home and don't dare take it to a pro venue. Users of these DAWs never did Pro DJ gigs or never will. You have no aspirations about going live, but you just want something fun to do when get home from work or school. They make pretty good composing tools because they are "simple". But, most composers go for the next step because there is one or two features that always seem to be missing in the Amature DAWs. This is usually "home versions" of the good stuff.

    2. DJ DAWs- Fruityloops, A-Live, Tracktion, Reason etc. You Dj, compose or you are a musician so you know how sound works and you know what a "track" is. You may have little or no advanced music software training. But, these applications are easy to learn and you can start making music/beats that evening. They are great writer's tools because they are simple and allow you to think about your music and you don't have to worry about configuration as much. Much faster learning curve and with very little or no difference in quality of sound.

    3. PRO Studio applications - (SONAR, Cubase, Protools) They cumbersome and usually require a "rocket ship"(loaded workstation) to run them. They have a lot of :Studio like" features that often get in the way when you are composing. Even if you know how to run it, you may lose ideas because you get so tied up in configuring the software you forget what you wanted to do in the first place. To me...this is "sound engineer" SH**. I do not mean this in a negative way. What I mean is that someone who uses this either has used it for years and it's "easy" to them or they don't get involved that much with making music as they do producing it. These people know all the reverbs, effects, etc and get more excited about a new "effect" than they do a new song they composed.

    Why Ableton Live is so effective is it really can "creep" in the the #3 category as well. I would not use it for classical, opera or Jazz. But, pretty much everything else is fair game. It can do any form of dance music. The biggest weakness it may have over the "Studio" DAWs is the lack of "in house" acoustic plugins vs the electronic plugins. That's why it gets pushed into the #2 Spot.

    I do understand that DAW are merely recorders. But, what they do come with defines the genre of music people will assume they are built for. Through my listening, this is my "ignorant" assumption I have made of some of these DAWs.

    1. REASON (no Audio) Not really a DAW. More like a very powerful keyboard in software with great effects. Needs to be REWIRE to be effective for studio use.

    2. Fruityloops (beat box)- This is a cool rap tool. It will work for other forms of electronic music, but why bother when there's ableton live? They seem to really push that pattern editor thingy and that's too amaturish for me. This should be in the #1 spot when I think about it.

    3. Abelton Live- Best dance DAW made. You can make funk, soul, house, disco, rap, dance rock, pop, world music, reggae, electronic and dance RnB with this.

    4. SONAR-(Studio only) This tool is for music tekkies. They are " in love" with the nuances of sound as it pertains to music. You can make anything with this but, it's overkill for most people who breathe. It will make you buy a new computer and to me is the "MS VISTA" of DAWs while Ableton Live is the "APPLE" of DAWs.

    BIG PLUS FOR SONAR>>>OUT OF ALL THE AUDIO DAWS,IT COMES WITH THE BEST SET OF ACOUSTIC AND ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS(SECOND TO REASON).

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