Sonar 7 vs Reason vs Ableton live (what's your opinion)

[kb420]

Like I said, you really can't go wrong with either. If you feel like Sonar is the one for you, then just do it.

I've been a Sonar user since version 3.

 

[SmooveMode]

I have to admit that ableton live is catching up. SONAR wins when it comes to features I need. But, it's harder to use than Ableton live. I was able to make one test song on ableton live while SONAR is causing me some issues. SONAR also requires more resouces and it's apparent when you read their requirements.

I believe I will need to contact SONAR tech support. I have not yet given up on SONAR. But, right now A-live is a little easier to make music on.

 

[Storm]

Man, what a TON of research going back and forth here! Well done to all involved.

I think it's simple. If you're a Dj you choose A-live if you're a musician choose Sonar. What do you think?

I think you've pretty much summed it up right there for yourself. SONAR is a fantastic program and so deep in features but you've got to know what you're doing. A live set-up would be at as disadvantage for SONAR I feel. But as a recording work horse, you can't beat it. It never limits me in my recording work flow.

In reality (and this goes for everyone) it's about what makes YOU comfortable enabling YOU to make the music you want. The software is a tool to get your music out, so it always comes down to whatever you feel empowered with. I'd really like to try A Live sometime because I hear great things about it.

 

[Drethe5th]

I have been playing around with Reason, FL Studio, Ableton live and Sonar.

So far, what I have noticed is that Sonar is a "resource hog". But the layout is pretty cool.

FL studio, I just couldn't get with.

Ableton live has a reputation of being dependable on live gigs.

I heard reason sounds better than both ableton and FL studio.

It does...better in house sounds.

Id say sonar homie, or logic if you run Mac. Reason does not do audio recording. SO if you want to actually use a live instrument your screwed and have to track it into another DAW then import the files to Reason. Why waste the time. Live is great too. Its layout is a little strange though to an extent so you may not catch on to it quickly. Overall it is easy to use and do what your looking at doing, but its layout will throw you off just a bit and make you scratch your head at first. I personally use Pro-Tools and Reason, but like I said, I absolutley have to have Pro-Tools just because reason does not record actualy audio. It will let you sample any audio that you already have recorded though.

Sound wise, Ive heard some cool stuff on Live from some people on here. Reason is strong too. Overall every program is strong in an area and weak in another. No doubt when its all said and done youll most likley end up running two programs anyway.

Thats another good thing about Sonar, it lets you run VST intruments.
Those are virtual dedicated instruments that typically sound better than an all in one package instrument or program.

Sonar is basically open to what you want to do, and lets you add other things to it. You can run reason through it, run VST through it, run live through it ect............

Live does the same thing too, just in a different way. Especially if your "old school" Sonar is laid out more in a way of older tracking scheemes that youve seen before nad last but indeed not least is Logic.

If you have a Mac, logic is the way to go absolutley. Great sounds great workflow.

As for CPU resources, youve got to step up the Ram first and maybe hard drive speed, your CPU itself shoudl hold up with not much trouble unless you run a ton of VST or other plug ins for compressing and such

 

[SmooveMode]

Thanks Dreth and Storm for your input! After long thought I Would have to say that Ableton live is winning(up to this point). I have used each program about the same amount of time and I have been able to successfully make a test beat our of reason and ableton live. I will talk with SONAR tech support tomorrow and give it one more chance. It's the best deal for me because I have SONAR 1.x and can get the new SONAR PE at an upgrade price. But there are some items that have ableton ahead right now.

1. I make cool beats. But, most of my life, I have been a DJ.
2. I'm not spinning vynil right now. But that could always change. I may want to go "LIVE" one day. When I do, I will probably be using DJ software like TORQ or Tracktor scratch. Niether one mentions anything about SONAR and both come with ableton live. That's speaks volumes right there.
3. Ableton is "feelin' me" and SONAR is confusin' me.
4. A-live uses less resources than SONAR
5. I could always use a software sampler to mimic the "audio snap" feature(I think). (Recycle?)

What keeps SONAR in the mix?

1. I like acoustic funky sounds and SONAR comes with more of them. Even though I could always buy more acoustic sounds for A-live. I could easily "nickle and dime" myself up to 300+ dollars worth of sounds alone! And that's getting the sounds "on the hustle"!

2. Audio snap: I know there will be a time when I want to grab a rythym guitar lick off a cd and then play it in one of my Jams(beats).

QUESTIONS- This feature sounds a whole like recycle. What's the difference?

ANOTHER QUESTION- Will audio snap allow you to change the key of the instrument you are using or is it better to lay the sound out in a sampler?

3. SONAR is less money(for me) because I can get the upgrade price.

I just did a little sound. digging online. I just concluded that SONAR has A LOT more sound plug/modules than A-Live.

Check this out!

SONAR PE includes

1. Session Drummer (very good)
2. Dimension LE
3. Rapture LE
4. Zt3A
5. Drop Zone
6. Pentagon 1
7. PSYN
8. Roland Groove Synth
9. SF2
10. Cyclone


Ableton Live

1. Essential Instrument Collection 2
2. Puremagnetics

Um....

Someone please correct me on this?

I listened to those SONAR sounds and they sound really good. It's not like they're serving a "side dish". With sound plugins tagged at a cost of 50.00-300.00 it's something one really has to think about!

Am I missing something here?

I was checkin' out that apple logic. It looks tight. I may need to switch out my PC for an apple. hmmm.

I was checkin' out that apple logic. It looks tight. I may need to switch out my PC for an apple. hmmm.

 

[kb420]

Here are the plug is that Sonar PE comes with based on your research:

SONAR PE includes

1. Session Drummer (very good)
2. Dimension LE
3. Rapture LE
4. Zt3A
5. Drop Zone
6. Pentagon 1
7. PSYN
8. Roland Groove Synth
9. SF2
10. Cyclone

1. I have never used Session Drummer because I have Battery 2 and 3.
2. Dimension LE is nice, but you will want the full version Dimension Pro. I own it and it's great.
3. Rapture LE is nice, but you will want the full version of Rapture. I also own it.
4. z3ta! is the full version I believe. That's is a great plug in with great presets and other free sounds available online.
5. I don't have it, but it's a basic sampler. Live has Simpler which is about the same thing.
6. Pentagon I have, but I have never used it. It's nothing next to z3ta!. Both are actually made by RGC audio.
7. Psyn I have never used. I didn't like any of the sounds. It's sounds like a bad analog emulation to me. That's just my opinion. I've had Psyn since P5 Version 1, and I've never liked it.
8. Roland Groove Synth is a bunch of old Roland drum machine samples I believe. That is what it is. Just about every peice of software with drum samples has it's own collection of classic Roland drum sounds, so this really isn't a big deal at all.
9. SF2. I don't really know why this is inluded. If you wanted to open a SF2 file, why wouldn't you open it in Dimension Le or Pro? You would have a lot more control over it then. I have SF2, and once again, I have never used it and don't like it.
10. I thought that Cyclone would be like Battery. It has 16 pads. It can play loops or on shot samples. You can even control the start/stops of the loops you are playing. Seems like a nice plug, that is until you begin to use it and realize that it doesn't respond to velocity at all. I actually asked them (Cakewalk) to make it responsive to velocity two years ago, and it still doesn't. Makes no sense at all.



Basically, you can live without most of those plugs. If you like Dimension and Rapture, you will want the full versions anyway. I had a lite version of Dimension that came with P5 V2 before Dimension Pro was released, so I got a discount on the upgrade. If you do go with Sonar PE, you will get discounts on the upgrades as well. You will like z3ta!, and I think they give you the full version of that. Everything else, I don't know. I think you could live without all of that stuff.

 

[Cloud19]

Reason 4.

 

[SmooveMode]

KB, Thank you so much for your information. That's exactly what I wanted to know. I do understand how a company can make something sound like more thank it is. What attracted me to the package the most was the session drummer 2, Dimension, rapture and Zt3a(just because it was free).

So let me break this down...

Basically, I'll need to upgrade(if possible) to the full versions of Dimension and Rapture. Zt3a is free but as for the remaining plugs, they are "nothin' special". Does that sounds right?

Another questions is this....

How do the sounds in REASON compare? I ask this because Dimension and Rapture "ain't cheap". They end up with a cost around the price of REASON.

QUESTION...

For NEO soul/funk , which DAW would you say has the best sounds out of the box?

REASON, SONAR or A-Live?

Another Question- Does Sonar have any advantage over any other DAW in playing RAPTURE, Dimension, or Zt3a or are plugins just plugins?


So let me break this down...

Basically, I'll need to upgrade(if possible) to the full versions of Dimension and Rapture. Zt3a is free but as for the remaining plugs, they are "nothin' special". Does that sounds right?

Another questions is this....

How do the sounds in REASON compare? I ask this because Dimension and Rapture "ain't cheap". They end up with a cost around the price of REASON.

QUESTION...

For NEO soul/funk , which DAW would you say has the best sounds out of the box?

REASON, SONAR or A-Live?

Another Question- Does Sonar have any advantage over any other DAW in playing RAPTURE, Dimension, or Zt3a or are plugins just plugins?

 

[bluchippa5]

good ass thread... good info even though im not a noob and i know most of this stuff already, its very informative with no one goin' at each other...there's hope for FP!!! LOL!!

 

[kb420]

All right, let me see if I can break this down.

Basically, I'll need to upgrade(if possible) to the full versions of Dimension and Rapture. Zt3a is free but as for the remaining plugs, they are "nothin' special". Does that sounds right?

That's right.

How do the sounds in REASON compare? I ask this because Dimension and Rapture "ain't cheap". They end up with a cost around the price of REASON.

Reason sounds great. I'm not disputing that, but I have to keep it real since you asked me. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING sounds like Dimension Pro. It's the best kept secret. The sounds on it blow out my Motif and everything else that I have as far as acoustic sounds. Strings, piano's, upright basses,

"sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!"

Rapture is the same way. It has some sounds on it that I haven't heard or can even begin to try to duplicate with anything else. Both of those programs were developed by René Ceballos. He use to own his own company called rgc:audio, but Cakewalk bought him out. So he works for them now. He usually responds to the Cakewalk's "Instruments" forum, and he's glad to help out. I know a lot of Reason users may not want to hear what I just said, but hey that's just my opinion. If you disagree, then good. Like I said, it's the best kept secret, even though Rapture just won an award.

MIPA 2008

For NEO soul/funk , which DAW would you say has the best sounds out of the box?

REASON, SONAR or A-Live?

Fresh out of the box, I don't know. I'd have to think about it. You're talkin' about some serious Rhodes Mk1's with the rotary speakers, some jazz drum sounds, upright basses, maybe some muted trumpets, sax sounds and phrases, and let's not forget some hammond b3's. I have to go through Reason's sounds again to check for those.

To be honest, off hand, I don't think any of them have enough of everything you need for Neo soul/funk, but you can still do some things, don't get me wrong. I just think that you may want to add sounds to all of them.

Another Question- Does Sonar have any advantage over any other DAW in playing RAPTURE, Dimension, or Zt3a or are plugins just plugins?

Not at all. z3ta has been out for a while. It use be sold directly from the rgc:audio webstie before Cakewalk bought the company.

Dimension Pro and Rapture are both cross platform. The work on pc as well as mac. They even work directly in Pro Tools. Both of those programs were actually the first pieces of software under Cakewalk's name that worked on anything other than a pc.

 

[SmooveMode]

KB, Thanks for your break down. This helps me feel me relaxed about buying those sounds. There's nothing worse than droppin a lot of money on a plug and finding out it straight sux. It sounds like you know what I'm lookin' for and you mentioned some instuments that I really need.

I don't quite remember, do you use A-live as your main DAW?

 

[kb420]

Yes. Sonar was my main DAW up until version 5. That's when I bought Live 5. I did upgrade Sonar 5 to 6, but I haven't upgraded to 7 because all I really use now is Live 7.

 

[jlgrimes11]

You guys are cool. Thanks for the info.



The audio snap feature is a "must have" for me. I looking for more of an acoustic funky sound and some of my beats(compositions) will be using a looped wave clips from CD's.

I noticed Sonar and Reason seem to come with a pretty good amount. I was not impressed with the sound set from ableton even though I did like its layout was good.

The amount of sounds that come with a DAW at a given price point is important to me. Dropping 300-600 got a DAW and then dropping another 300 on just sounds is messed up. I would prefer to buy a used fantom, akai or motif in that case.

I really liked Reason's control surface interface. It's straight forward and easy to use. you simply click on a knob(in the software) and then move the contol you want to link to that knob in the software. I like it better than Sonar's "act". Ableton's surface interface is easier to use too. Sonar's is complicated and seems to have too many steps.

REASON 4.0 HAS NO AUDIO???? What's that about? It may as well be a software synth in my book. Someone, please tell me I'm wrong?

QUESTION*** Will the "rewire" feature use up a lot more computer resources than simply loading plugins?

This is what I need.

1. Easy pattern based sequencing.
2. Audio editing(3rd party?)
3. Audio Snap feature
4. Great "in house" sounds
5. The ability to perform live without worrying about a crash
6. Can integrate with DJ software(torq) with no problems
7. Best setup to provide an acoustic sound
8. Spontaneous

What do you fellas think?

Rewire doesn't use a lot of CPU use.

I would suggest a Live+Reason combo.

1. Live's Session View is great for pattern sequencing. Reason's Redrum would complement Live's lack of a Drum machine (although Live's Drum racks are a nice workflow too). Basically Reason would give you the Drum Machine pattern style sequencing.

2. Live can do "basic" audio editing. If you just want to chop samples, Live is perfect, if you want offline processing and being able to remove clicks and stuff look at Sound Forge.

3. Live's Warp Markers are pretty close to Sonar's Audio snap. It's actually where Sonar got their idea from. Live's only real disadvantage to Audio snap is that it doesn't allow you to quantize the audio. Actually you can manually quantize the audio in Live by adjusting Warp markers, but it is not an instantaneous function like in Sonar. By the way one of Live's glaring weakness is lack of sophisticated quantize options. Sure it has input quantize, but it only has global swing and no groove quantize. Reason on the other hand has great quantize options. Sonar on the other hand has about infinite quantize options but its interface isn't as cool as Reason's.

4. Live's in house sounds are O.K. Even if you get the whole suite, they lack variety of presets. Reason on the other hand specialty is presets and lots of them. You probably will not even be able to audition all of Reason's sounds because it has so many, but not all of Reason's sounds are great but Reason gives you everything you need to compose what's in your head compared to Live' and Sonar.

5. Both Live, and Reason is great for Live Use. People underestimate the power of Reason Live. A cool thing about Reason is you can load up other songs while one song is playing. Live can't do this but once you got a project open Live will import loops, change tempos, song sections usually without skipping a beat. You will sometimes get a minor pop out of Live. I think that is usually because of Drum Racks but for the most part Live is the best thing I found that can do audio and midi without skipping a beat. Sonar don't think about it. It is more for studio use and hiccups just from doing rather simple stuff like moving a clip.

6. Don't know about torq, but Live has a few DJ functions built in like a built in crossfader but I hardly use it.

7. Anything that records audio will give you a good acoustic sound. Not sure what you mean. Reason has some cool acoustic presets as well as Live. If you want the best though you will have to search refills, and VSTs and might have to spend more money. For sound quality Live is now 64 bit which is on the level of Sonar. I think almost every other DAW except Pro Tools which is 48 bit is 32 bit. But I'm sure Cubase, DP, and Logic will jump the gun on the next upgrade or so (they might have already)

8 Live wins for spontaneity. You can record your music, loop audio, change sections all without pressing stop.

 

[SmooveMode]

JLGrimes, Thanks for that intense breakdown between the DAWs. I do enjoy working in A-live much better than Sonar. I don't know about you, but Sonar seems more "buggy" to me. But still I was leaning towards SONAR because it seemed to have better sounds, "out of the box", than A-Live. I also thought it would be cheaper for me to upgrade to SONAR 7 PE than it would be to purchase live. But, I did find some cool prices online and they cost the same for me. The only other advantage to the SONAR purchase is the amount I would save buying their cool plugins and I also thought the "in house" plugins blew away A-live. But, I believe I found those plugins for the same price as the online upgrade price for their LE versions of dimension and rapture that come with SONAR.

Audio Snap would be a cool feature. But what good is it if I cannot understand SONAR's work flow? I'm a computer Tech so I know my way around a computer. But SONAR software is not user friendly to me.

I mean I was getting confused on simple stuff. I was trying to delete my last take. The edit>undo did not work. Ok fine..there must be another way? To this day I could not find it and those notes are still there in that track.

I like the way A-live shows all the instrument controls on the bottom of the screen. SONAR does not do that. In SONAR you have to open adjust the controls in the plugin application itself. I'm no "Synth master" I may want to adjust the tone a little and maybe a little volume. It seemed a lot easier to do in A-Live.

Compatibility to midi controllers was another thing I did not like about SONAR. ACT has a limited database of controllers and some popular ones were missed. I have an AXIOM 25 and ACT(SONAR) only listed the AXIOM 49...how lazy! If I go with SONAR I'm going to sell my AXIOM and buy something that's on the ACT database. I just want to plug and play and the extra time changing parameters I feel should have been mapped from the git go is not worth the effort. It's so easy to do in Reason. It's a little harder in A-live. But, at least A-live mapped the transport keys!

Yesterday I thought I was going to get SONAR. but, now I'm having second thoughts.

BTW what do you think of apple logic pro?

KB! Do you use A-Live in the studio or do you usually do live stuff with it? Do you believe A-live is a cool enough studio DAW as well?

 

[kb420]

I don't do any live stuff. I just use Live in the studio.

I not trying to dis Sonar in anyway, but it does take some time and dedication to get into it. It has so many features now that for a first time user, I can totally understand how it can be overwhelming.

A good way to really get into Sonar is this book:

http://www.garrigus.com/pwrbkinf.asp?BookID=11

Take the time with that and you will really get to know Sonar. I have 3 of his books now. Scott usually shows up on Cakewalk's forums, and he also has his own where he is willing to help you.

Either choice, Live or Sonar, you will need to spend some time to get the most out of them. It doesn't take a whole helluva lot just to make a few beats, but to get the most out of the program takes a little more study and research.


Logic Pro is the bomb, but I'm not a Mac user, and it's Mac only!!!!!

 

[LevLover]

I'm a computer dude, and Sonar felt more like a computer program to me, where as Live feels more like a music program to me. I had an easier time learning microsoft Access then i did Sonar. Just my 2 cents, since KB already touched on alot of stuff between the two.
LevLove

 

[SmooveMode]

I'm a computer dude, and Sonar felt more like a computer program to me, where as Live feels more like a music program to me. I had an easier time learning microsoft Access then i did Sonar. Just my 2 cents, since KB already touched on alot of stuff between the two.
LevLove

Le...I feel you man! I'm a computer dude too and I felt the same way.

I was makin' beats(composing) on A-live. In Sonar, I cannot even figure out how to setup my Keyboard in ACT. LOL

 

[LevLover]

Also, i would not suggest buyin a sequencer because of it's stock sounds, especially when it can host 3rd party plugins, cause plugin manufactueres are going to make better more entensive sound libraries since that is thier focus, weere as sonar or who ever focus on makin a good host application.
LevLove

 

[JMaCTraX]

i dont know....

It's just to easy to make my joint in reason, then rewire to protools for MIXING no trackin or none of that, then bounce that out to audio... Save the protools file... then anytime I need to go back just open the protools file...

Just cuts alotta bullshyytt out the way.

I just love simplicity.

 

[SmooveMode]

i dont know....

It's just to easy to make my joint in reason, then rewire to protools for MIXING no trackin or none of that, then bounce that out to audio... Save the protools file... then anytime I need to go back just open the protools file...

Just cuts alotta bullshyytt out the way.

I just love simplicity.

I like reason. But, that does not sound all that simple! LOL

Here's a good question. What can you do with the "rewire" feature. I thought it was only used to access sounds and maybe effects. Can you actually play a song from Reason in another application? How do you bring up this song and can you transfer the note data into the host application?

thanks