Hardware vs DAW(computer based)

Griffin Avid said:
"If you like hardware better, I can respect that."

I'm not a hardware strictly guy. And I don't think one approach is superior than the other. I just don't feel anything is 'hands down'.

I could still snag a hardware box and push all these sound libraries through it. The only problem you run across now is using samples from hardware and claiming it's software.

That's why 'the best sounding software' is a massive library of hardware sourced samples. But that's a whole nother issue.

I find it strange too how many threads creep up with software users still searching for a Motif /Triton/Hard Workstation VST/Refill/Sound Set/- well, anything that gets them close to that sound.

Are they all crazy?
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No, they probably just don't understand basic sound design. Most of the sounds in the Motif are great, but they are running through 6 to 8 effects. Those are the presets. Take a program like Sampletank. When you access the sounds, they are flat, meaning they don't put any effects on them. The preset combi's have effects, but the basic sound library is flat.

That makes a big difference.

Now, sampling analog synths is something completely different.
 
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Griffin Avid said:
You are spending too much time trying to find something to disagree with instead of actually reading my posts.
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no, you are simply spreading wrong information. that's all.



Griffin Avid said:
All of this equals hardware which is what I said. Thanks for agreeing.
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no, not at all. i completely disagree.

you said: "That's why 'the best sounding software' is a massive library of hardware sourced samples. But that's a whole nother issue."

read exactly, i said: "don't know what you mean by "the best sounding software", but synths don't use samples at all and the typical multisample libs (those used in good ROMplers) are either recorded intruments or single wave cycles taken from good old analog synths, but never taken from workstations"

simply READ THE FULL SENTENCE above and please, next time, quote full sentences when you're not exactly sure about their meaning.



Griffin Avid said:
Do I have to link to every thread on here where a cat claims to be triggering Triton/Motif/Fantom refills or the cat on here with his Typhoon Roland knock-off kontakt-powered soft sampler?
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well, listen to these refills. they sound ugly. they don't give you the same experience and flexibility as a synth/ROMpler that is properly designed. simply because these kits are based on "brute sampling".

anyway, a triton can't be copied. thinking that simple sampling could recreate an excellent patch created by professionals is naive. is that a lack of experience?

without the licence issues and politics of hardware companies, it would be no problem to run the Triton software on a normal PC. and it would sound exactly as a triton - even if it would became a "softsynth" (ok, the word sounds gay, i think that's the reason...)

again, hardware softsynths (to be exact) seem to sound better because they can spend more money in the creation of good patches. these synths don't sound better in reality. but "preset-diggers" will always have problems to understand that fact - they never look behind the presets of their pirated software, it's so easy to open another vsti's preset.


Griffin Avid said:
You should pick another Biblical character. You are no Moses.
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haha! you're right. moses was a bullheaded whippersnapper, charlatan, fascist and mass murder. i should get another name, have an idea?!
 
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Which ever feels comfterable to you is the best for you. I had hardware. Went software. I'm happy. I felt a little guilty when I had my hardware and started using software like I was cheating on my MPC. Lol
 
Griffin Avid said:
No. How much did the computer you use to run all that software cost?
And the Audio interface...
And the MIDI controller...

See my point?????
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And you need to record your Motif....Most likely into a computer...with an audio interface.

So cost of software+controller is all I count.
Sampletank+budget sequencer/host+controller will run much, much cheaper.

Xabiton said:
my daw only cost me $99 and I love it. I use a ton of freeware plug ins that sound great. and I do use reason as my main sound module I love it
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Yeah, too many people get caught up in the latest greatest hype when Sonar HS, Cubase se, Podium, etc, give people the needed tools to get the job done just fine.
+1 on the freeware plugs. there are many slept on gems out there.
More freebies come out every month than I can keep up with.
 
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thiws thread is lame:bat: anyone not using a computer DAW AND HARDWARE is either crazy or stupid
 
If that’s the case then you should put my quotes in context. I’m suggesting context was lost because you’re too busy trying to find something to reply against.
The full passage:

"The only problem you run across now is using samples from hardware and claiming it's software.
That's why 'the best sounding software' is a massive library of hardware sourced samples. But that's a whole nother issue."

And since you said yourself you weren’t sure what I meant- maybe next time ask me to clarify before you counter a point I never made.

simply READ THE FULL SENTENCE above and please, next time, quote full sentences when you're not exactly sure about their meaning.

Advice you should take too.

well, listen to these refills. they sound ugly…

Your opinion of them doesn’t change the fact that they exist and people are interested in them. There was quite a bit of interest in the Fantom sampler.

I see a difference in ROMplers, samplers and synthesizers whether they be hardware or software.
 
Griffin Avid said:
If that’s the case then you should put my quotes in context. I’m suggesting context was lost because you’re too busy trying to find something to reply against.
The full passage:

"The only problem you run across now is using samples from hardware and claiming it's software.
That's why 'the best sounding software' is a massive library of hardware sourced samples. But that's a whole nother issue."

And since you said yourself you weren’t sure what I meant- maybe next time ask me to clarify before you counter a point I never made.

simply READ THE FULL SENTENCE above and please, next time, quote full sentences when you're not exactly sure about their meaning.

Advice you should take too.

well, listen to these refills. they sound ugly…

Your opinion of them doesn’t change the fact that they exist and people are interested in them. There was quite a bit of interest in the Fantom sampler.

I see a difference in ROMplers, samplers and synthesizers whether they be hardware or software.
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well doc your joints must sound off the chain with all this passion your showing.
 
Don't mistake my passion for Music Production with a passion for using hardware or working in a particular fashion. I know everything on this site is A verse B.
 
SmooveMode said:
As you guys know I have been looking deep into DAWs. I thought they would be easier and more cost effective. But, after looking to the price of the plugins and the DAW itself. It's easily enough to buy a used Motif ES or Fantom XR module.

What do you guys think and what made you dive into the DAWs instead of a hardware based solution?
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Once you get into recording and mixing, you start to see the true advantage of software. In this category software runs circles around hardware (unless you have a million dollars to invest and a lot of room). Even big studios are on software now.


As for making tracks people are slowly moving into software. In hardware, you had lots of limitations in areas such as:

1. Sampling
2. Midi editing
3. Expanding sounds.

There are some good hardware units but over all you get more with software. The really great hardware units are the ones like the mpcs and what not which can be better than software in some areas but overall looking at the big picture, software does more.


People fail to realize though you need both software and hardware. An mpc has software inside of it, so does Fantoms, ASR10s, and you name em. If you want to design synths most companies want some programming skills. The analog synths didn't have software (most of them anyway).

Conversely people who use Fruityloop and Reason need a soundcard to hear they music (hardware), a controller keyboard (hardware), Even if they don't use a controller keyboard they still need a mouse (hardware) and computer keyboard (hardware).


A physical computer itself is actually hardware, it is the intangible programs inside the computer that is the software. So in the end we all use hardware in some sort.
 
Jl makes some very good points. I remember my ASR 10. I think I had about 3 or 4 different OS's for that. It wouldn't even boot without the OS disc, and yet some consider that true hardware???? It had an OS just like a pc has Windows. My MPC 3000 is the same way. I have the latest OS on a disc. Right now, for me to use the latest OS, I have to load the disc in everytime I turn it on. The original OS is soldered to the motherboard inside the MPC. Forat said they have the new OS chips and can solder that in if I want at a cost.

Most of the what people consider hardware are actually micro computers that are job specific devices whereas a pc isn't job specific. That's what makes pc's more customizable, flexible, and ultimately more powerful.

Any and all sample based and virtual analog based hardware sounds can be done in pc because in actuality they are computers.

Now, true analog is entirely different.
 
dude sumed the whole debate up.

What was the debate? I guess when you start your replies off with...

People fail to realize...
Kids don't understand...
Y'all don't get it, but...
They don't know...
You miss the point...

It prepares us for the great wisdom that was missing before.

And I guess this all makes sense since you can use both a general understanding of hardware as anything with physical weight measurable in kgs and software in 1s and 0s. In this way a mouse and keyboard is considered Hardware. And hardware as an MPC and software as GURU.
Then draw a solid line and assume EVERYONE that uses Reaper ONLY uses VSTs for sounds. And anyone with a Korg M3 doesn't have a computer.

There's a big difference between using a hardware based sequencer and a software based sequencer. A softsampler that...doesn't sample and an actual hardware sampler. A 100 gig library of orchestra samples and an orchestra soundbank on a ROMpler.

Your great summary IS the reason we've been discussing COST since people quote the software routes' cost with just the box of Sonar/Cubase. Again, all these hardware companies have pieces that weighs in at a grand that samples, plays back sounds, sequences etc...

Want to be retentive about limitations in software? Find a software sampler that actually samples. One that has a record button to capture live audio. Better hit google for that.

So the bar is a thousand bucks. Find your software and DAW and whatever other contraptions you need to make a track and it's even.
Spec that out with costs.

Why? Because COST keeps coming up as an advantage and I say it isn't so.

As far as MPCs go and the rest of all these other conceptual advantages and number-of-features lists and imagined limitations-

Users...DON'T use ~ more than 10% of the features of anything. So really keep it based and reality and talk about the kinds of things you
actually need to do/use to make a piece of music. When you think that way- suddenly you DON'T have limitations. Never did.

According to this great fantasy- all software users should be making super-dope-incredible-unheard of sounding-monster hits- with tons of innovative and new and wondrous sounds and sequences from all this limitless hype and talk. And dudes with vintage/expensive/souped up workstations should be right next to them. Dudes with deep pockets and/or access to cracked toys should be WAAAAYYYY ahead of the curve from all these imagined limitations imposed on the regular population. Funny how the new guys sound like beginners and the people with developed skill, creativity and talent are doing just fine irregardless of how or what they work with/on.

"Music production is the relationship between the creativity of the artist and the craftsmanship he is able to employ through the mastery of his tools."

That's a summary and a true definition because I realize it's not the thousands of sounds on my hard drive/ROM that count- it's the ones I actually choose to place in my track.

It's not what my sequencer can do that counts- it's what I choose to do with my sequencer and the performance it's meant to capture.

It's not what price I pay for my set up- it's about what price I'm willing to pay in time and effort to achieve my production ends.
 
The thing is, most people have a pc anyway, for basic things like balancing their checkbooks and accessing the internet. You sure as hell can't log on to the internet and check your email with a MPC, or Fantom X, but whatever.

Griffin, I don't think we are disagreeing as much as the tone of your last post suggests, but I'm gonna bail out on this thread because at this point if I posted another reply, it would just be because I like to hear myself talk!!!

"This above all: to thine own self be true!"

-William Shakespeare-

Do what you want. Work in a way that you feel the most comfortable. I respect that.
 
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Griffin Avid said:
dude sumed the whole debate up.

What was the debate? I guess when you start your replies off with...

People fail to realize...
Kids don't understand...
Y'all don't get it, but...
They don't know...
You miss the point...

It prepares us for the great wisdom that was missing before.

And I guess this all makes sense since you can use both a general understanding of hardware as anything with physical weight measurable in kgs and software in 1s and 0s. In this way a mouse and keyboard is considered Hardware. And hardware as an MPC and software as GURU.
Then draw a solid line and assume EVERYONE that uses Reaper ONLY uses VSTs for sounds. And anyone with a Korg M3 doesn't have a computer.

There's a big difference between using a hardware based sequencer and a software based sequencer. A softsampler that...doesn't sample and an actual hardware sampler. A 100 gig library of orchestra samples and an orchestra soundbank on a ROMpler.

Your great summary IS the reason we've been discussing COST since people quote the software routes' cost with just the box of Sonar/Cubase. Again, all these hardware companies have pieces that weighs in at a grand that samples, plays back sounds, sequences etc...

Want to be retentive about limitations in software? Find a software sampler that actually samples. One that has a record button to capture live audio. Better hit google for that.

So the bar is a thousand bucks. Find your software and DAW and whatever other contraptions you need to make a track and it's even.
Spec that out with costs.

Why? Because COST keeps coming up as an advantage and I say it isn't so.

As far as MPCs go and the rest of all these other conceptual advantages and number-of-features lists and imagined limitations-

Users...DON'T use ~ more than 10% of the features of anything. So really keep it based and reality and talk about the kinds of things you
actually need to do/use to make a piece of music. When you think that way- suddenly you DON'T have limitations. Never did.

According to this great fantasy- all software users should be making super-dope-incredible-unheard of sounding-monster hits- with tons of innovative and new and wondrous sounds and sequences from all this limitless hype and talk. And dudes with vintage/expensive/souped up workstations should be right next to them. Dudes with deep pockets and/or access to cracked toys should be WAAAAYYYY ahead of the curve from all these imagined limitations imposed on the regular population. Funny how the new guys sound like beginners and the people with developed skill, creativity and talent are doing just fine irregardless of how or what they work with/on.

"Music production is the relationship between the creativity of the artist and the craftsmanship he is able to employ through the mastery of his tools."

That's a summary and a true definition because I realize it's not the thousands of sounds on my hard drive/ROM that count- it's the ones I actually choose to place in my track.

It's not what my sequencer can do that counts- it's what I choose to do with my sequencer and the performance it's meant to capture.

It's not what price I pay for my set up- it's about what price I'm willing to pay in time and effort to achieve my production ends.
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Dog.... I think you care lil too much.. but you right, it's all about the craftsman, not the tools.
 
The Beat Pharmacy said:
As far as cost goes they are pretty equal if you consider the cost for the PC as well.
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No because your using a computer to record hardware with.
User of both sides need a computer, so that cost is out the window when drawing comparisons of total cost.

When someone goes out buys an mpc, and lacks a computer with an interface, guess what they will be buying next?
 
Mattman04 said:
No because your using a computer to record hardware with.
User of both sides need a computer, so that cost is out the window when drawing comparisons of total cost.

When someone goes out buys an mpc, and lacks a computer with an interface, guess what they will be buying next?
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You dont have to record on a computer if you have an mpc. Also if you go the software route you need guess what? Software. The most popular software apps like reason and recycle, Fruity Loops, sound forge etc., cost around what $400 each.
 
The Beat Pharmacy said:
You dont have to record on a computer if you have an mpc. Also if you go the software route you need guess what? Software. The most popular software apps like reason and recycle, Fruity Loops, sound forge etc., cost around what $400 each.
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Yeah, you can buy an equally expensive standalone recorder.
Software with the capabilies of the mpc is free if you know where to look.
No I'm not talking about warez, but real freeware.
So cost of controller is the only real cost if you work with freeware.
It's not like Reason+Recyle is going to help you accomplish what people are doing with mpc's any better than MU.Lab free+Shortcircuit will.

I also know the mpc can resample it's outs, and render that way, but don't most people want to mix in more suitable environment?
 
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