Bitwig Studio review and tutorials

[yada]

Samplitude uses less processing with it's object orientated processing on clips than track based over the time of the track, which i guess makes sense as that's why Magix implemented it. Never actually tested it before now as i just assumed that what they said was true as it made sense to me. Thinking about it it's the reason Apple developed the core technologies in Mavericks, i.e. lower the resource consumption on that which doesn't require it.

 

[bandcoach]

what you have described still fits the track as object model - occupancy of ram does not seem to change so it must be down to bypass the fx if not needed i.e. do not send signal out when it does not need to be and therefore do not mix returns when they do not exist - as an object model goes, this is simple to implement for dubious returns on processing scheduling, though.

as for os obejctifying, such an improvement has been around in other os's for quite a while (late 80's in some distributed/terminal access computing environments)

 

[yada]

I see. Well i guess it's not such a good idea after all.

 

[paulykanebeats]

I wonder why it looks like a really old program from the 90's.

 

[THA_REAPER]

See Project 5 from Cakewalk wasn't too popular then they dropped it. Its like the same damn thing though. I used it for that reason and I was pissed when they discontinued it...I used Live then and couldn't grasp session view...Went to Project 5 and that worked better. It never had a chance to evolve because Cakewalk was to in over their heads with Sonar. Then when they killed it...Later on they added Matrix view -__- to give something similar when instead they could of worked to get that non linear workflow that Project 5 had. Long story short years later I went got back into Live around 7 and purchased 8. I don't think Ableton can do anything about the way it looks and the way its controlled. Maybe what we see in live was the original doing of parts of the Bitwig team. It wouldn't make sense to get upset over someone creating something and putting his work elsewhere if was his intellectual property to begin with. Also much that goes into Live belongs to Monolake, PureData, Max/MSP, Reaktor hence why Ableton couldn't file a lawsuit even if they want to. Ableton Live: How It All Begain

Now Bitwig probably gets the recognition for that way of launching clips/scenes when its already been done. Not to say Project 5 didn't borrow from Lives's pallet neither. Look at the transport strip at the top of the GUI. To me its nothing to be mad about...I see heavy influences from Live, Project 5, Maschine, and Studio One. Studio One being the only that doesn't really have a non-linear way of putting a song together, but more on the mixer and browser. They all borrow from each other. If one company is kicking another companies ass with particular features, it would be smart to implement it in some kind of way. Most users will request this stuff and ask that it be put in. If every other competitor has it and the one your using doesn't after a while its another shortcoming.

 

[kb420]

In my opinion, Bitwig still hasn't established it's identity yet. Some of the developers of Bitwig are former Ableton employees, that explains why Bitwig Studio appears like a Live clone. Personally, I feel as though in it's current form, I could never switch to Bitwig. It's missing several key features that Live has had for years. Here are just a few:

1. Track Folders
2. Input Quantize
3. Hot swapping for drum rack pads
4. More flexible midi routing
5. Better vertical track zooming
6. "Snap to zero crossing" in the drum machine's sample editor
7. Groove extraction and groove quantize
8. More than one color scheme for GUI
9. Mutiple output support for vst's, and
10. A crossfader
There may be others that I missed, but those are the ones that stuck out in my mind from reading through some of the threads over at the Bitwig/KVR forum http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=259 ).

For me, there is no competition. In the future, when Bitwig becomes a more mature product, it may very well be a viable alternative to Live, but not right now. Not for me anyway.

 

[Mivo]

I'm actually loving Bitwig. It improves quite a bit on Ableton Live's workflow (which really isn't very ergonomic for me) and combines a number of great features from various other DAWs. It's still a 1.x version and lacks some features, like track grouping (which is somewhat set off by the hybrid tracks), but I'm more productive with it than with Live, which just never clicked to me. People claiming that Bitwig is a "clone" of Live are either shills (pretty obvious who -- signed up in March, super emotional and abusive about Bitwig) or really need to look a closer look at Bitwig.

Choice is a good thing. If someone is happy and productive with their current DAW, there is no incentive to switch. If someone hasn't found their DAW yet, or is looking for their first one, Bitwig (which, by the way, is mostly done by former Ableton employees) is an excellent pick, in my opinion. It's very slick, "feels" good, and is super accessible. Above all, they pump out updates and fixes at a high rate and respond to inquiries and suggestions. Live's development is really slow, and some issues simply aren't addressed. That doesn't make Live a bad choice, but it's not exactly the pinnacle of DAW development.

As always, there are demos, and people have different preferences. Fanboyism and religious zeal are really misplaced. Competition drives innovation, and the DAW market is very much in need of evolution and progress. So even if someone doesn't like or use or need Bitwig, it'll benefit everyone nevertheless. Innovation without competition rarely happens.

 

[bandcoach]

I begin to doubt your sincerity, Mivo, - your initial posts about bitwig were very much fanboy based. This last one comes across as nothing more than an attempt to counter a negative review, which is very much a fanboy thing to do

 

[kb420]

If someone hasn't found their DAW yet, or is looking for their first one, Bitwig (which, by the way, is mostly done by former Ableton employees) is an excellent pick, in my opinion. It's very slick, "feels" good, and is super accessible. Above all, they pump out updates and fixes at a high rate and respond to inquiries and suggestions. Live's development is really slow, and some issues simply aren't addressed. That doesn't make Live a bad choice, but it's not exactly the pinnacle of DAW development.

I would never recommend a first gen DAW to someone who is looking for their FIRST DAW. There are definitely better options for someone who is just getting into to DAW's. Bitwig doesn't even come with a lot of content, which is something that a first time DAW user would find very helpful. Bitwig doesn't even have as much included content as the entry level Live Intro.

I would recommend Pro Tools, Studio One, Logic, Reason, Live, Sonar, Digital Performer, FL Studio and Cubase all before I would think to recommend Bitwig to a new DAW users. All of those programs are seasoned veterans, and would all be a better choice than Bitwig at this present time.

 

[Mivo]

I begin to doubt your sincerity, Mivo, - your initial posts about bitwig were very much fanboy based. This last one comes across as nothing more than an attempt to counter a negative review, which is very much a fanboy thing to do

I bought Bitwing, and I enjoy using it. That's the extent of my involvement (oh, and I exchanged a few emails with Dom from Bitwig about community aspects, and reporting that Poise crashed in 1.0.1, which was then fixed in 1.0.2 a day later). I wouldn't have bothered to respond here, if the thread had not been a bashing fest. I didn't see you, as a mod, object to that, or other threads that are even more blatant bashing (like the "Dear Ableton Live 9 users"), so rest assured, the doubts are entirely mutual. And that's fine.

Bitwig's attraction, to me, is that it combines a number of elements from various DAWs that I enjoy, and actually, I don't get where you see insincerity. If you look at my posting history, you'll see I recommended various DAWs, beside Bitwig, chiefly Reaper, and Renoise, and spoke positively of FL Studio, depending on people's needs. I own all of those. Yes, I like Bitwig, it works for me, I love the workflow, and I think it's a great product even now. If I didn't, I wouldn't have spent €289 on it. And of course I'm excited about it, because it's nice to finally find a DAW that "clicks" with me and meets my workflow expectations (except the grouping issue, which I mentioned before). If that makes me a fanboy, so be it, but I'm not driven by fear or zeal. I'll still keep using other DAWs, especially Renoise, and there is little chance I'll be using anything but Reaper for recording acoustic instruments any time soon.

In response to kb420's post, the reason why I would recommend Bitwig as someone's first DAW is because it's brand new. It allows someone to grow with it, learn with it while everyone else learns, and take advantage of the "rush" that comes with a new release. It's the best time to get and be involved. It's a time of discovery and excitement, and I believe there is much value in this from the perspective of learning (as opposed to starting when everyone else is already an expert). I'm also not alone with that recommendation, if you watch some related videos on the more relevant Youtube channels (in particular, Sonic Academy's 2.5 hours review in seven parts, and I think the Dubspot videos echoed the sentiment), which all state similar reasons.

But as I said before, and always say, choice is a good thing and people should try the demo of any product they are interested in, before spending money. You'll never see me telling someone to buy THIS product because THAT product is crap, or all others are inferior. For me, Bitwig is exciting and I find the constant trash-talking from Ableton Live users a bit tedious, but that's me, and your, or anyone else's, mileage may well vary. That's why it's good that there are different DAWs to choose from. We don't all have to like and use the same software.

 

[bandcoach]

I bought Bitwing, and I enjoy using it. That's the extent of my involvement (oh, and I exchanged a few emails with Dom from Bitwig about community aspects, and reporting that Poise crashed in 1.0.1, which was then fixed in 1.0.2 a day later). I wouldn't have bothered to respond here, if the thread had not been a bashing fest. I didn't see you, as a mod, object to that, or other threads that are even more blatant bashing (like the "Dear Ableton Live 9 users"), so rest assured, the doubts are entirely mutual. And that's fine.

free debate is fine, as mods we are encouraged to allow the debate to go where it will unless it becomes a more targeted attack on individuals or outright derailed into trading of petty insults

However, when it is tempered with a I must respond to any negative critique of my favourite thing with a positive glowing set of statements that it becomes an intriguing balancing act on our part - your prior post read more like an advertising blurb and rebuttal of claims against it - it is not the only post nor are you the only poster to do such things in the last week or so

We have let this go for the most part as it is healthy to have a discussion of new daws by people who are cutting themselves on the bleeding edge of the technology - my days of doing such things (working with bleeding edge tech) are long gone

Bitwig's attraction, to me, is that it combines a number of elements from various DAWs that I enjoy, and actually, I don't get where you see insincerity. If you look at my posting history, you'll see I recommended various DAWs, beside Bitwig, chiefly Reaper, and Renoise, and spoke positively of FL Studio, depending on people's needs. I own all of those. Yes, I like Bitwig, it works for me, I love the workflow, and I think it's a great product even now. If I didn't, I wouldn't have spent €289 on it. And of course I'm excited about it, because it's nice to finally find a DAW that "clicks" with me and meets my workflow expectations (except the grouping issue, which I mentioned before). If that makes me a fanboy, so be it, but I'm not driven by fear or zeal. I'll still keep using other DAWs, especially Renoise, and there is little chance I'll be using anything but Reaper for recording acoustic instruments any time soon.

I tend not to review a members posts before commenting on a specific post, otherwise I would spend all day reading volumes of what, at times, can be very insincere commentary that serves no purpose but to provide a vehicle to promote a members music

I applaud you for spending money to learn the ins and outs of anew product, just do not expect that everyone else is prepared to accept that freshman project should be a) so expensive relatively speaking (I can buy upgrades for my other daws for less), b) so much of a blatant rip of an existing product, albeit by folks who worked on that existing product before becoming disillusioned with the direction the product was taking and c) embrace it as the new saviour of computer based creation and production

In response to kb420's post, the reason why I would recommend Bitwig as someone's first DAW is because it's brand new. It allows someone to grow with it, learn with it while everyone else learns, and take advantage of the "rush" that comes with a new release. It's the best time to get and be involved. It's a time of discovery and excitement, and I believe there is much value in this from the perspective of learning (as opposed to starting when everyone else is already an expert). I'm also not alone with that recommendation, if you watch some related videos on the more relevant Youtube channels (in particular, Sonic Academy's 2.5 hours review in seven parts, and I think the Dubspot videos echoed the sentiment), which all state similar reasons.

I would counter that position by pointing out that if no-one is the expert how do you get to learn the ins-and-outs quickly, in a streamlined fashion. Whilst no great fan of videos that "show" you how to do something in a daw, they are at least made by people who have experimented at great length and stood upon the shoulders of other who have also done so (most of these videos lack a certain underlying educational strategy, so fail in their primary purpose of educating others - there is no explanation beyond do this then do that to get this: there is no why you do it this way or that way)

 

[kb420]

In response to kb420's post, the reason why I would recommend Bitwig as someone's first DAW is because it's brand new. It allows someone to grow with it, learn with it while everyone else learns, and take advantage of the "rush" that comes with a new release. It's the best time to get and be involved. It's a time of discovery and excitement, and I believe there is much value in this from the perspective of learning (as opposed to starting when everyone else is already an expert). I'm also not alone with that recommendation, if you watch some related videos on the more relevant Youtube channels (in particular, Sonic Academy's 2.5 hours review in seven parts, and I think the Dubspot videos echoed the sentiment), which all state similar reasons.

But as I said before, and always say, choice is a good thing and people should try the demo of any product they are interested in, before spending money. You'll never see me telling someone to buy THIS product because THAT product is crap, or all others are inferior. For me, Bitwig is exciting and I find the constant trash-talking from Ableton Live users a bit tedious, but that's me, and your, or anyone else's, mileage may well vary. That's why it's good that there are different DAWs to choose from. We don't all have to like and use the same software.

For how ever many reviews you read that may recommend Bitwig as a good 1st DAW, I still wholeheartedly disagree. Bitwig has severely less training resources currently available, as compared to all of the other more seasoned programs. Another reason why I wouldn't recommended it is that it's still plagued with bugs. For all intents, Bitwig is still in a beta phase as far as I'm concerned. They didn't open up beta testing to a very large group, and because of that, they've rushed out about 5 big fixes in the first week of it's release. While some may find that impressive, I sort of feel as though that is a testament to how ridiculously unstable the program is right now. The last thing I would want to see a newbie to DAW's going through is fighting through the instability of an underdeveloped program. Isn't just learning the program challenge enough?

I'm an Ableton Live user. That's my favorite DAW, but I don't work for Ableton, and I really don't care what anyone else uses. When people ask me what's the best DAW out there, I always tell them "the best DAW for you is the one that you like the most". I like to keep aware of what some of the other DAW companies are doing and what features they may be adding. I think competition is a good thing, and I really hope Bitwig succeeds, but I would NEVER recommend that to a DAW newbie. A few years from now when they have ironed out some of the major problems, maybe, but definitely not now.

 

[Mivo]

I applaud you for spending money to learn the ins and outs of anew product, just do not expect that everyone else is prepared to accept that freshman project should be a) so expensive relatively speaking (I can buy upgrades for my other daws for less), b) so much of a blatant rip of an existing product, albeit by folks who worked on that existing product before becoming disillusioned with the direction the product was taking and c) embrace it as the new saviour of computer based creation and production

I disagree that it's just a copy of Live that brings nothing of its own to the table, and I feel that if someone works with it, this becomes obvious, too. To me, it feels different than Live, which is why I bought Bitwig, but had not purchased Live when I used the demo. As you mentioned, it is done by people who previously worked for Ableton, so of course the idea is to take the good parts from Live and improve upon them. Those are their ideas, too.

This video explores the differences. Is it similar? Of course, but I look at it as taking an idea that worked and then building up on it. It's not unusual with software, regardless of the area. It's noteworthy that Ableton didn't actually come up with everything that people associate with Live. They, too, were "inspired" by other products that came before. DAWs all take features from their competitors. How long will it take until Live snatches Bitwig's browser and implements layered editing?

I mentioned the reasons why I bought it, and if someone is happy with their DAW, there is little point in getting another, unless the new one is radically better. I still love Renoise and feel productive with it (I consider it my main DAW), but it's entirely different and the music I make with it differs, too. Bitwig's approach is very different and I like it for those differences. If I owned and liked Live, I doubt I would have looked into Bitwig. I also bought it because I like that they support Linux. I'm not currently using Linux (work-related mostly: can't work in the gaming industry and not use Windows, at least for now), but did in the past and will use it again when the opportunity arises, so this is an important point for me.

Another reason for me to buy it was the upcoming collaboration features, which I'm really curious about. That isn't in yet, and it's a bit of a gamble (and I assume the competitors will now work on that too, because it'll be a killer feature if well executed), but it's something I want to be part of. Making it happen requires support, and I'm in a financial situation where €289 don't break the bank, so I can support products I believe in.

Anyway, I use what works for me. Your preferences may differ and I respect that. There is nothing insincere about preferring software and expressing that.

 

[danielsun]

[/QUOTE]

Yes, Indeed, bitwig has very nice features, thanks for detailed sales review.


However I felt a bit of lack of dynamic perhaps due to so many switches to change display behavior, I usually use live 9.1 (the switch most used is TAB ) and protool . I mean looks like the workflow should improve but when i put my hands on, it did not, too many things in one screen this problem could have been sorted by adjusting the scale of the display (ableton zoom) and too much swapping around displays. ironically Ableton guys were complaining about the tab fuction....

something to have in mind:

Inserting new clips does not change automatically the color .
no magnifier for clip launcher, i am force to shrink arrange view to find out what is going on, or disable arrange view

no Color/theme Display ?
No rewire ?

i do not understand how bitwig forgot to include a ZOOM for each display profile, particularly

in my case scenario where i use a 17″ laptop screen and 32″ led, it is essential to have a facility as ZOOM like in Ableton for my 32″ screen, however even ableton forgot to include a second zoom facility for the 2nd display that could have been very handy.

and i can go on and on.


I think bitwig is a brilliant product for new ppl in the business , on the other hand if the other DAWS will implement bitwig above improvement it will be a killer….