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Thread: Ableton Live vs Fruity Loops - Ableton Wins

  1. #11
    phatpat is offline Soldier Member
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    Ableton Live Sounds

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluchippa5
    first off, you are the first person to actually like the sounds(i guess you're talking about the EIC) that come with live.....
    I am using the demo version right now, so I am only guessing the included sounds that come with Ableton Live are any good - but at 15 GB, how can they not be amazing.

    Heres what another Remixmag says about EIC in their review:
    "There may not be a need, however, because with Live 6, Ableton has introduced its new Essential Instrument Collection (EIC), a massive 15 GB bank of samples organized and prepared for Simpler's new multisample mode (although you can also use it with Sampler). Working together with Sonivox and Big Fish Audio, Ableton's collection isn't quite as thorough as the Reason Library (and requires a separate serial number) but is certainly much higher quality. My poor 1.25 GHz G4 Mac could barely keep its head above water when loading the huge 3.5 GB Acoustic Piano (which is stunning)"

    Full review here: http://remixmag.com/production/softw...e_5/index.html

  2. #12
    Sanguis Mortuum is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatpat
    at 15 GB, how can they not be amazing.
    Very easily...

  3. #13
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    breal is offline Insane FP Patriot
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    I love Live but wish you could rex files with it.
    Live and Reason together is a killer.

  4. #14
    jlgrimes11 is offline Registered User
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    Live is a different program.


    Where I got Sonar and Reason and had an initial good idea how to approach sequencing,

    Live was just totally different.

    After I worked with it I learned some of its flexibilities (the good the bad the ugly):

    The Good.

    1. The sample browsers. This thing stays open and you can pretty much create shortcuts for commonly used sample folders.

    2. Drag and Drop nature of softsynths, makes for quick loading of softsynths.

    3. Flexible audio routing. I thought Sonar was flexible but I think Live has an extra edge with the ability to sidechain and such. Problem is that its interface is a bit convoluted and is probably a turnoff for some users.

    4. Great for pattern sequencing (Project 5/Cubase are the only competitors here I think. Ableton has an edge over P5 because it lets you record right into session view and has more flexible looping capabilities).

    5. Audio warping (Like Sonar's audio snap built right into clips).

    6. Impulse and Simpler softsynths. While the synths are very basic, they really are enough for most dance styles of music (including hip hop) with the advantage of being fully integrated into program (can drag newly recorded clips into simpler, impulse we are getting close to software samplers that actually sample).

    7. Flexible keybinding support. Live's keybinding is the easiest to set up. Not as complete as Sonars but miles ahead of Project 5 and Reason.

    8. Ability to have independent loops if recording with Session view (Most sequencers out can't do this at all).

    9. Built in help with lessons. The lessons aren't the best but no other program even attempts this. What is really cool is the online help which explains every function you hover your mouse over.

    10. Flexible piano roll. Even though the piano roll is not complete in a sense (no scissors tool, CC can be a bit tricky) and lacks a step editor, the piano roll is a lot more refreshing to use than Sonars and Reason and also has the ability to mute individual notes.

    11. Sturdy realtime operation for live performances. (I'd trust using the software in a show).

    The bad

    1. Quirky interface. Live's way of working is pretty foreign from the start. Although the interface is simple, it takes a bit of practice and good setup and reading to get going. It is like learning to drive a car again. The little subtlties like pressing scene start to rehearse in session view vs. starting an armed clip to record in session view will drive you crazy at first. I kind of this that is where a distinguishment of record and play would be nice on an armed clip.

    2. Having to arm midi tracks. Not too much of a problem for audio recording, but a little of a nuisance for midi.

    3. Basic freeze (and not as easy to do as Sonars right click approach).

    4. Doesn't come with the cool loops Apple Garageband does.


    The UGLY

    1. Basic auto quantize. No 32nd notes auto quantization. Function not keybindable at all.

    2. EIC instrument collection takes very long to load.

    3. Copy protection. Although no dongle is involved the online registration was a nightmare to use. Live pretty much forces you to register the product immediately. Even NI gives you ample time.

    4. Weird practices. I wanted to buy the online version of Live and realized it was like $499 and didn't include the EIC collections. Stores sell Live for about that same price (in the US) with the included EIC collections and manual. I really can't think of a good reason to buy the online version, I think it should be even cheaper.

    5. Live is a very expensive program if you choose to get the Operator and Sampler (maybe like $600-$700), but then again so is Sonar (if you buy Z3ta, Dimension, and Rapture Sonar is very expensive) (and Reason is up there if you buy the piano, strings and drums refills).

    6. Midi timing is a little erratic (if you use external hardware synths). Sonar's timing is solid as a rock.

  5. #15
    ForumRoamer is offline Soldier Member
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    I've used both as well.

    Your views appear very subjective though...

    Interface: Ableton Live has a cleaner look and is more intuitive to use.
    So what if it looks 'cleaner'? Intuitive huh? You do know that using the word intuitive means that you are able to grasp using ableton more than fl which could imply that fl is more complex/advanced.

    Anyways this is all a subjective thing mate. The way I see it is all these appz are on the same level for what decides which is better is the individual that uses the product.

  6. #16
    Sanguis Mortuum is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumRoamer
    You do know that using the word intuitive means that you are able to grasp using ableton more than fl which could imply that fl is more complex/advanced.
    Rubbish, it simply means that, for him, FL is less intuitive. Nothing more. Of course, intuitiveness is entirely subjective depending on the software your used to, but the fact that he finds FL less intuitive has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether FL is any more or less complex or advanced...

  7. #17
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    Guenon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
    After I worked with it I learned some of its flexibilities (the good the bad the ugly):
    That was a good summary. I think I'll reply to some points with my personal impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
    1. The sample browsers. This thing stays open and you can pretty much create shortcuts for commonly used sample folders.
    I can't say I'm too fond of the browser as far as managing a lot of samples is concerned. Unless I want to audition on the fly, I usually find myself dragging material straight from an external file manager. (And personally, being picky and wanting to manage files as efficiently as possible, I haven't used the Windows' standard Explorer file manager on my personal machines in something like eight or nine years ... I use Total Commander.)

    However, I think the browser in Live is great for managing plugins and storing/recalling device chains.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
    3. Flexible audio routing. I thought Sonar was flexible but I think Live has an extra edge with the ability to sidechain and such. Problem is that its interface is a bit convoluted and is probably a turnoff for some users.
    This is one of the strong points of Live to me. I don't find it any bit convoluted, it was very clear from the get go. The additional routing magic you can do with the racks, alongside with really effortless support for sidechaining plugins (when you know what you're doing), is a huge bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
    6. Impulse and Simpler softsynths. While the synths are very basic, they really are enough for most dance styles of music (including hip hop) with the advantage of being fully integrated into program (can drag newly recorded clips into simpler, impulse we are getting close to software samplers that actually sample).
    Impulse and Simpler are samplers, not synths . The Ableton synthesizer is called Operator, and it's actually quite the beast for varied synthetic sounding timbres. Alas, it's not included in the standard package but is a separate purchase.

    About the stock samplers, I think Impulse is pretty much as basic as a oneshot sampler can get. I used it a lot for a while, and nowadays bring it into a project when I need just that, a no-frills oneshot solution with reroutable individual outs. Usually, I just dump my oneshots into Shortcircuit for a more varied approach.

    The same thing goes for Simpler: it's designed to be a basic sampler to offer a fast to work with creative sound-design tool for mangling single samples. At that, I find it very efficient. But... need to build a multisample? Not possible with anything in the standard box, unless you build a rack of Simplers, of course. Not exactly convenient for routine sampling, but still not to be missed as a creative method, as it can be a key to some very intriguing constructs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
    1. Quirky interface. Live's way of working is pretty foreign from the start. Although the interface is simple, it takes a bit of practice and good setup and reading to get going. It is like learning to drive a car again.
    I think my personal experience with Live differs most in this one. I never experienced this sort of confusion. I previously had experience in the PC generation of Logic, after which I learnt Cubase. For me, starting to learn the Live interface was a joy from the start. "Oh, that's how it does this thing! How nice!"

    Quote Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
    3. Basic freeze (and not as easy to do as Sonars right click approach).
    On the other hand, I find the freeze quite awesome, albeit a basic one. It freezes so that the frozen material also continues to work in the session view non-linear mode, and the frozen tracks retain basic editability. You can also drag and drop a frozen track, just like that, into another audio track (making it an equal audio object with the other audio tracks) and, if you wish, drag that frozen section or parts of it straight into Simpler/Sampler/Impulse and so on. Pretty nifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
    3. Copy protection. Although no dongle is involved the online registration was a nightmare to use.
    This has been a problem for some people, yes. I haven't found it to be a burden (took two minutes). When I needed to transfer my activation, the team responded within an hour.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
    5. Live is a very expensive program if you choose to get the Operator and Sampler (maybe like $600-$700), but then again so is Sonar (if you buy Z3ta, Dimension, and Rapture Sonar is very expensive) (and Reason is up there if you buy the piano, strings and drums refills).
    I think Live is one of those programs that definitely warrant a good search for special offers, yes. The cheapest path is usually to buy a product with a bundled-in Live Lite version and then upgrading that to the full version. That way you can almost save half of the asking price.

    In any case, I think it's a good thing the Sampler and Operator addons are being kept separate. This way you can pay for the parts you need, and if you wish, invest the money you'd pay for Operator (for example) into another synth more suitable to your own needs.

    During the years, Live has proved to be the software package I have been most satisfied with, ever. That's not only counting audio software, btw. And yes, there are many things in other categories that come close, of course, but it's hard to compare it to something completely different like an operating system...
    Last edited by Guenon; 05-15-2007 at 12:52 PM.

  8. #18
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    biggpapo is offline Registered User
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    I use Reason, Ableton, and Fruity Loops. I don't have enough patience to sit and learn a new program in it's entirety so I use what I know of all 3. and I am happy with the results.

  9. #19
    Cyko is offline Registered User
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    I wouldn't even put Fl in the same class as Ableton (just wouldn't do it)

  10. #20
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    Fam Nice is offline Senior Member
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    I don't see why you all argue the same shyt into the ground. These programs are just canvases for your music. How you feel about these programs are personally "YOUR" opinion on workflow... smh!..lol

    Y'all young phockers lead the eachother right to a empty well of water...lol spend less time debating B.S. and master your craft ... help out with things you know about first hand and stop spreading false info

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