Why do hip-hop drum kits sound so sh**

I can't tell y'all nothing, you the ones who aren't happy with your drums, yet when I tell you where to get them from you say "no, that's not where they are at".

Again, Stock Sounds are 95% of avg producer making placements arsenal even if they don't know it is.

Example: Scott Stoch got drums from MV8800 and Motif. So if you get the library banks to these, you have "scott Storch Drums".

Dr. Dre used MPC 3000(I think, maybe another model), Triton, and old Records for Chronic 2001. So if you get the sounds from the hardware and read the CD insert to see what was sampled and get the drums from the albums he used you got all his sounds from 2001. Dr. Dre didn't purchase a "Dr. Dre" kit for his sounds.

Alot of Boombap era was done on ASR-Xs, EMU Rackmounts, DMXs, Rolands, ect. Get the actual rom sounds from these. Not the ones someone EQed and filtered so they can resell without being sued.

Today tons of producers with hits in current rotation from Lex Luger to Will I Am to DJ khalil to Polow to Bangladesh to Justice League to BM Cox have made records using nothing but the resources provided for them within their DAW of choice whether Logic, FL, Reason, Pro Tools, ect.

That's because the drums that come in a Workstation Keyboard, Drum Machine, dedicated vstis or a DAW are engineered and mixed by professionals(who ironically engineer and mix the records you hear that you want to sound like) for optimal sound. "Kits for sale" on the otherhand are made when someone get's ahold of MPC, Ultrabeat, Battery, Kong, Sampletank ect. and "layer or tweak" the drums for you. Problem with that is the original sound is now compromised and you're given some random guys spin on what he "thinks sounds good" for a quick buck.

The problem is, people think it's some secret "compress this/layer that/eq it all" formula, when you just need lossless quality drums from jump. From there you do what's needed for THE SONG!

Sidenote, your monitoring may be failing you if it's not up to par(I know none of you to know what you are using)but I don't know ANYONE with reliable monitoring who worries about things like "quality drums" or making beats that "knock". It's all an afterthought when your ears aren't deceiving you.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
I can't tell y'all nothing, you the ones who aren't happy with your drums, yet when I tell you where to get them from you say "no, that's not where they are at".

Again, Stock Sounds are 95% of avg producer making placements arsenal even if they don't know it is.

Example: Scott Stoch got drums from MV8800 and Motif. So if you get the library banks to these, you have "scott Storch Drums".

Dr. Dre used MPC 3000(I think, maybe another model), Triton, and old Records for Chronic 2001. So if you get the sounds from the hardware and read the CD insert to see what was sampled and get the drums from the albums he used you got all his sounds from 2001. Dr. Dre didn't purchase a "Dr. Dre" kit for his sounds.

Alot of Boombap era was done on ASR-Xs, EMU Rackmounts, DMXs, Rolands, ect. Get the actual rom sounds from these. Not the ones someone EQed and filtered so they can resell without being sued.

Today tons of producers with hits in current rotation from Lex Luger to Will I Am to DJ khalil to Polow to Bangladesh to Justice League to BM Cox have made records using nothing but the resources provided for them within their DAW of choice whether Logic, FL, Reason, Pro Tools, ect.

That's because the drums that come in a Workstation Keyboard, Drum Machine, dedicated vstis or a DAW are engineered and mixed by professionals(who ironically engineer and mix the records you hear that you want to sound like) for optimal sound. "Kits for sale" on the otherhand are made when someone get's ahold of MPC, Ultrabeat, Battery, Kong, Sampletank ect. and "layer or tweak" the drums for you. Problem with that is the original sound is now compromised and you're given some random guys spin on what he "thinks sounds good" for a quick buck.

The problem is, people think it's some secret "compress this/layer that/eq it all" formula, when you just need lossless quality drums from jump. From there you do what's needed for THE SONG!

Sidenote, your monitoring may be failing you if it's not up to par(I know none of you to know what you are using)but I don't know ANYONE with reliable monitoring who worries about things like "quality drums" or making beats that "knock". It's all an afterthought when your ears aren't deceiving you.
Click to expand...

I agree with you but, those keyboards and drum machines cost $$$!

Wait, so if you have proper monitoring, you can't hear the flaws in a drum kit?? That defeats the purpose of monitors. I don't really think much about making drums 'knock' because I'm not mixing on some KRK's with 5-inch "subwoofers" but...

Shit maybe I'm just really critical about my drums but you know what, I started listening to the drums reason 5 comes with and they ain't even that bad!

Are there places to buy kits of drum samples from original equipment that are high quality ( wav, good converters, no procession) without having to spend all the cash on the original stuff?
 
ScorchinBeats said:
Did you even read my post? I specifically mentioned I don't have any hip-hop vst's (they exist, subboombass, arturia hip hop edition, etc). And I have good acoustic samples, but not ones suited for hip-hop. I asked in my original post if anybody knows some good acoustic sample kits that do sound good in hip-hop.

Some samples in the kits I have are clipped. I don't mean the wav file is clipping - I mean that the sample was distorted and then brought down in level, but still retains that clipping 'sound'. And yes I realize they are just sampled off MP3. I'm just showing my frustration against the companies that rip people off with this lol.

So if all of these sample kits are are sampled off of modern music, where do the original samples come from? That's what I'm looking for. And you talk about professional drum kits, but don't actually mention any.
Click to expand...

First, I would like to apologize. When I replied to your comment, I was actually really drunk at the time... and considering how intoxicated I was, I honestly doubt that I read the entire length of your original post (and even if I did, I was probably too drunk to really remember any of the important details anyway). So, I apologize for that... Seriously. I really didn't mean to sound like such a stubborn dick.

Second, thank you for correcting me on the rap/hiphop-oriented plugins. I've actually never heard of those before, and aside from the "Beat Thang" VST, I really didn't think there were plugins out there designated specifically for rap/hip-hop production use. I was wrong and thank you for correcting me on this.

As far as your samples clipping.. I often have a hard time recognizing clipping occurring in drum samples unless it's blatantly obvious, so I wouldn't doubt it if some of the samples in my Urban Fire 4 kit have the same issues that yours do. The Urban Fire 4 ones definitely have a distinct quality to them... Very distinct tone, very strong + hard hitting, and have a definitive crispiness to them. I don't exactly think these are clipping in overall nature, but I may be wrong.
 
ScorchinBeats said:
I agree with you but, those keyboards and drum machines cost $$$!

Wait, so if you have proper monitoring, you can't hear the flaws in a drum kit?? That defeats the purpose of monitors. I don't really think much about making drums 'knock' because I'm not mixing on some KRK's with 5-inch "subwoofers" but...

Shit maybe I'm just really critical about my drums but you know what, I started listening to the drums reason 5 comes with and they ain't even that bad!

Are there places to buy kits of drum samples from original equipment that are high quality ( wav, good converters, no procession) without having to spend all the cash on the original stuff?
Click to expand...

The keyboards and drum machines do cost money. But the sounds on them can be found for free. Some of them even have the backup disks online for all of the public. All you need is a device to convert the data to wav files or the 5 minutes it takes to track down a blogspot where someone's already done it for you.

You completely misread the point about good monitoring. It's the opposite. With good monitoring you CAN hear the flaws as well as details that lead you to select the right drum for the right situation. I'd rather have the right monitoring and nothing but FL Studio stock drums than BS monitoring and every drum known to man. If that statement doesn't make sense to you, you don't have good enough monitoring, so nothing I say can convince you otherwise.

There's no such thing as "good" or "bad" quality in the world of music. It's all about the right utility for the right solution. Sometimes you need a $99 SM57 over a $3,000 Neumann. Sometimes you need M-Tron synthy tape strings over a live orchestra. Sometimes you need blah drum over bleh drum. Without good monitoring you're oblivious to what sound is needed and what needs to be applied, so you're always taking shots in the dark. With good monitoring you learn most drums people look high and low for can be found stock in programs like Maschine, MPC, Logic, FL Studio, Reason, Tritons, Motifs, Fantoms, Sampletank, Battery, Kontakt, EMU Racks, Dimension Pro, ect. I'm not telling you to go buy the things on that list, I'm telling youthat you more than likely already have 2 or 3 good sources for drums in your arsenal. Even if you don't know it because your monitoring doesn't allow you to understand how they can be utilized.

EQ only solves EQ problems. Layering only provides a solution when it's needed. Compression should only be applied as a solution to dynamic problems. You can't hear to know when these are nessesary without proper monitoring, then you go on a wild goose chase for "good drums" rather than recognizing them right under your nose and instanlty knowing all blah blah did was blah blah to a factory drum from the blah blah. Even if you don't got the drum you then know you can get the same results by doing blah blah to a drum in your arsenal that you're aware you have and know exactly where it's at cause you don't have 6 million of the same drums repackaged 7,000 times with minor tweaks you coulda done yourself.

And by the way, 9 times out of 10 you can fill in the "blah blah's" that were done to a drum with the phrase "nothing at all until the engineer finalized the song".
 
Honestly, now that I think about it, I def agree with the OP... Even when I do acquire acoustic drum-set samples, I have a pretty hard time really finding the right-toned ones that really match the flavor of the track I'm using them in. /woe is me.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
I can't tell y'all nothing, you the ones who aren't happy with your drums, yet when I tell you where to get them from you say "no, that's not where they are at".

Again, Stock Sounds are 95% of avg producer making placements arsenal even if they don't know it is.

Example: Scott Stoch got drums from MV8800 and Motif. So if you get the library banks to these, you have "scott Storch Drums".

Dr. Dre used MPC 3000(I think, maybe another model), Triton, and old Records for Chronic 2001. So if you get the sounds from the hardware and read the CD insert to see what was sampled and get the drums from the albums he used you got all his sounds from 2001. Dr. Dre didn't purchase a "Dr. Dre" kit for his sounds.

Alot of Boombap era was done on ASR-Xs, EMU Rackmounts, DMXs, Rolands, ect. Get the actual rom sounds from these. Not the ones someone EQed and filtered so they can resell without being sued.

Today tons of producers with hits in current rotation from Lex Luger to Will I Am to DJ khalil to Polow to Bangladesh to Justice League to BM Cox have made records using nothing but the resources provided for them within their DAW of choice whether Logic, FL, Reason, Pro Tools, ect.

That's because the drums that come in a Workstation Keyboard, Drum Machine, dedicated vstis or a DAW are engineered and mixed by professionals(who ironically engineer and mix the records you hear that you want to sound like) for optimal sound. "Kits for sale" on the otherhand are made when someone get's ahold of MPC, Ultrabeat, Battery, Kong, Sampletank ect. and "layer or tweak" the drums for you. Problem with that is the original sound is now compromised and you're given some random guys spin on what he "thinks sounds good" for a quick buck.

The problem is, people think it's some secret "compress this/layer that/eq it all" formula, when you just need lossless quality drums from jump. From there you do what's needed for THE SONG!

Sidenote, your monitoring may be failing you if it's not up to par(I know none of you to know what you are using)but I don't know ANYONE with reliable monitoring who worries about things like "quality drums" or making beats that "knock". It's all an afterthought when your ears aren't deceiving you.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely right.
ScorchinBeats said:
I agree with you but, those keyboards and drum machines cost $$$!

Wait, so if you have proper monitoring, you can't hear the flaws in a drum kit?? That defeats the purpose of monitors. I don't really think much about making drums 'knock' because I'm not mixing on some KRK's with 5-inch "subwoofers" but...

Shit maybe I'm just really critical about my drums but you know what, I started listening to the drums reason 5 comes with and they ain't even that bad!

Are there places to buy kits of drum samples from original equipment that are high quality ( wav, good converters, no procession) without having to spend all the cash on the original stuff?
Click to expand...
everything in the world costs money except for a kick in the pants. Get used to spending it especially if you want to be a part of the music industry.
illicitdynastycom said:
just go get the mpc brain and play with compression
Click to expand...
this is exactly what I would not do.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
The keyboards and drum machines do cost money. But the sounds on them can be found for free. Some of them even have the backup disks online for all of the public. All you need is a device to convert the data to wav files or the 5 minutes it takes to track down a blogspot where someone's already done it for you.

You completely misread the point about good monitoring. It's the opposite. With good monitoring you CAN hear the flaws as well as details that lead you to select the right drum for the right situation. I'd rather have the right monitoring and nothing but FL Studio stock drums than BS monitoring and every drum known to man. If that statement doesn't make sense to you, you don't have good enough monitoring, so nothing I say can convince you otherwise.

There's no such thing as "good" or "bad" quality in the world of music. It's all about the right utility for the right solution. Sometimes you need a $99 SM57 over a $3,000 Neumann. Sometimes you need M-Tron synthy tape strings over a live orchestra. Sometimes you need blah drum over bleh drum. Without good monitoring you're oblivious to what sound is needed and what needs to be applied, so you're always taking shots in the dark. With good monitoring you learn most drums people look high and low for can be found stock in programs like Maschine, MPC, Logic, FL Studio, Reason, Tritons, Motifs, Fantoms, Sampletank, Battery, Kontakt, EMU Racks, Dimension Pro, ect. I'm not telling you to go buy the things on that list, I'm telling youthat you more than likely already have 2 or 3 good sources for drums in your arsenal. Even if you don't know it because your monitoring doesn't allow you to understand how they can be utilized.

EQ only solves EQ problems. Layering only provides a solution when it's needed. Compression should only be applied as a solution to dynamic problems. You can't hear to know when these are nessesary without proper monitoring, then you go on a wild goose chase for "good drums" rather than recognizing them right under your nose and instanlty knowing all blah blah did was blah blah to a factory drum from the blah blah. Even if you don't got the drum you then know you can get the same results by doing blah blah to a drum in your arsenal that you're aware you have and know exactly where it's at cause you don't have 6 million of the same drums repackaged 7,000 times with minor tweaks you coulda done yourself.

And by the way, 9 times out of 10 you can fill in the "blah blah's" that were done to a drum with the phrase "nothing at all until the engineer finalized the song".
Click to expand...

this makes me want to go through my stock drums again lol. I always overlooked the drums that come with stuff because everyone has them and I want my own unique stuff. This also makes me want to go get a new pair of monitors. I have been getting compliments on my Rokit 5 mixes too lol. Dammit maybe I'll finally pick up a pair of those 8" Yamahas I have been drooling over since 2006
 
Some damn good posts in this thread.

@Digiskunk, don't worry about it. I didn't take it too harshly

@Deranged I now know what you meant about the monitoring thing and I agree with you 100%. I never doubted it, because without proper monitoring EVERYTHING else is useless right? I just think that low quality exists. In other words, some vocalist recorded in an untreated room with a radio shack mic into a cheap m-audio interface - that is low quality.

@Xab I only hear good things about the hs80m. I would say they're better than KRK which are a bit hyped (a good second reference though)
 
An engineer once told me that your monitors are only as good as you know them. Meaning you can get great mixes out of computer speakers if you know them really well.
 
my mixes on my rokit 5s actually translate fairly well when I listen on other stuff. Sometimes they do sound bad though. Usually just depends on the mix. Compared to my old Alesis monitors though its night and day with the KRKs winning.
 
discussion should've ended. OP was right about my comment; I was talkin about loops that was originally a sample. Deranged hit it; get some DMX, 808, etc drum kits. Don't have money? I knew how to go to studios with my MPC and sample actual keyboards and drum machines myself only to see they are already on the net with thousands of perameters. 10 years ago somebody got on me for sampling drum machines instead of using the actual thing. Nobody will hate you for getting free LinnDrum sounds off the web. That was the one machine I didn't get to sample. I found some on Google in less than 5 minutes and I don't care who cares that I used free drums of the web of a machine Prince already used to death by 1985.
 
Tyree D. said:
discussion should've ended. OP was right about my comment; I was talkin about loops that was originally a sample. Deranged hit it; get some DMX, 808, etc drum kits. Don't have money? I knew how to go to studios with my MPC and sample actual keyboards and drum machines myself only to see they are already on the net with thousands of perameters. 10 years ago somebody got on me for sampling drum machines instead of using the actual thing. Nobody will hate you for getting free LinnDrum sounds off the web. That was the one machine I didn't get to sample. I found some on Google in less than 5 minutes and I don't care who cares that I used free drums of the web of a machine Prince already used to death by 1985.
Click to expand...

Thats the spirit. I personally like to use sampled break beat sounds but I see nothing wrong with using free internet sounds if it works for you.
 
aww naw man not taking it the wrong way but i know im not the best of the best but i pull clients all the time that get thier shit mixed or mastered ina real studio and come to me for me to fix shit so i know im good i feel you 100 there is always some one better
ScorchinBeats said:
Don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean to be harsh but your mixes might not be as good as you think they are.
Click to expand...
 
Boom Bap Phonetics - Real smooth sounding not over compressed doesn't clip easy to layer with other sounds. Lofi but clean reminds me of drums in madlib tracks

www.Modernbeats.com - More commericial I layer these as well to get my own sound but they are good to build on

Records - Total control
Live Drums- total control


www.Banginbeats.com Rough and dirty and i don't mean a good dirty. very sloppy editing but they are good for layering to give drums edge

there are a few sounds in all that i love and from there i just tweak to get different sounds


ScorchinBeats said:
Seriously. I've bought many random drum kits online from popular sample sites.

Why is it that hip-hop drum samples are always so low quality. I mean, the drums are always so unrealistic sounding. And half of them always come with 5db of hard clipping! I'm not pointing any fingers (sonic specialists, producerschoice) but seriously?

Can anybody recommend some drum sample kits (not live kit samples like addictive drums or superior) that don't sound like ****?


NOTE: This is a pointless rant. I'm probably just a bit too pissed off today. F*** it, I won't hold back on you suckas..
Click to expand...

you also have to think they are trying to make money anytime you sounds ranging in the GIGS you know its crap or atleast you should know.
You also have to realize when you buy someones kit you are buying what they use (mostly) So if they have 13 kits that pretty much all have the same sounds ... well thats what "THEY are using" or what "THEY" call a so and so kit.

you think your paying for x amount of sounds but what you're buying is what they consider "insert genre kit"

Most producers don't use more than a handful of drums. I'd buy a drum mack with 80 sounds over 300 any day because know with 80 sounds their are less sounds that sound similar
 
Last edited:
Almost every time I try and get some "Hip-Hop" drums it's some obviously-sampled-from-vinyl weak sounding crap or it's some "vinylized" bullshit. I find that for cleaner better better sounds, it's best to get a wide variety of acoustic samples of real drums as well as clean lossless samples of drum machines.... AND throw away all the weak samples no matter where you got them from. And don't be afraid to check for samples in Trip Hop and IDM and Industrial kits. almost every genre of electronic music was influenced by hip-hop beats so there's almost always some good sounds in there and those other genres are known for making interesting variations on certain themes. Also get some freebies like NS Kit Free if you can find it, and stay away from soundfonts. A lot of soundfonts are really really weak. I'm not sure why. I guess it's just hard to make a good soundfont.

And while you're at it, invest in a good field recorder and maybe a good pair of external mics to use with it. That way you can go to somebody who has a drum or cello or a yapping chihuahua and sample the heck out of that stuff.

Also, some sampler VST's such as Poise will let you tweak and layer the samplers really well to make even more powerful sounds that meet your taste.

But anyhow to finish up, I'd say anything that is marketed as "Hip-Hop" is probably going to sound weak and grainy and low-tech. So look for the original drum machine samples or get the original drum machines and make your own kits and sell the drum machines again. And like I said, don't be afraid to look for good quality samples from beyond the so-called Hip-hop genre. And it might be nice to get a drum synth VST too just for "kicks". Or use the freeware Stomper Hyperion to make some.

See what I'm saying?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top