Hard Drums and FL Studio

DJJB

Producer from the Future
SO.. I have been taking music very seriously lately and learning as much as possible. I have a recurring problem that my mixing and sound separation has yet to fix, and I need your advice on it. I use FL Studio and I cannot get my drums to hit hard enough. I am not using studio quality headphones/speakers, so this is a large part of it.. but there is definitely something else missing. As soon as I get a job I'm going to buy some real nice headphones that are relatively flat in sound output to use for mixing, but for now I need mixing tips.

I use bass boost, eq boosts in sub range and peaks around 250 - 500 - 3k, and compression on my kicks. and I layer kicks and run them all through this fx channel and they still sound puss. When looking at the meters on FL mixer everything is hitting at the 100 peak (not above threshhold where it clips) but still they should be banging at that level and they are not.

I love bass and I want my kicks to be extremely punchy... and I want my snares to be really tight and full...

I can't seem to produce hard drums and my db meters are telling me that the levels are maxed out when they still sound like crap!

help?
 
I have this issue pretty often too so I know where you're coming from.. Try your hardest to really bring them out, but still, something is missing: that real hard-hitting snappy tone in the mix.

You said that you use some EQ + compression on the kicks, but you never mentioned doing any EQing for any of the other drum samples. If you don't use EQ on hats and snares, the dull, lacking quality of those samples will likely take away from your hard-hitting kicks.

If you don't already use EQ on your hats, make a channel for them in the mixer and boost around the 2khz-8khz ranges so it brings out some raspy clarity. For your snares/claps, use the EQ to boost around the 750-1500hz range to make them stand out more, and maybe boost some of the higher end for more hiss. If you still sound a little dull, a small tight boost around 300-400Hz can give them more "weight" so they hit harder. But of course, it all depends on the samples you're using.

Can you provide us with an audio clip? I wanna hear! :)

Also, I have one last piece of advice, but take it with a grain of salt:
I highly suggest not using stereo separation on your drums because beats tend to sit in the middle of a mix. A little bit of separation (3-12%) can't hurt, but it's more important to utilize stereo separation to bring out leads and expand strings/pads.

Hope this helps! Cheers, bud.
 
You don't want to be boosting your kicks much in that range 250-500 ranger its not going to sound great, its going to take clarity away not enhance it.

I wouldn't even think of mixing in terms of Eq'ing and compression, I'd start with finding better drums, setting the correct volume and using panning to open up space for things to breathe a little, and to add some artistic flair. But keep any thing with bass/low end more or less center.

Visualize your mix, think of the space between your speakers and an imaginary line between them, thats the center, use panning to place your instruments/sounds, left of right, like you may have your snare closer to the right speaker and your hi hat a little off right of center, your bass in the middle. With the level (volume) visualize your higher up instruments as the loudest, things like your kick and snare your bass just below them, etc.

That might help, or confuse you lol.. I dunno, give it a try. I'm no expert, but its helped me.
 
Use banging drums to start with.

What's that supposed to mean...?

No offense, but that's not exactly constructive feedback. No matter how good your drum samples are, somewhere down the line you're going to need to know how to mix them appropriately so they fit tighter in the mix.

---------- Post added at 07:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------

You don't want to be boosting your kicks much in that range 250-500 ranger its not going to sound great, its going to take clarity away not enhance it.

I wouldn't even think of mixing in terms of Eq'ing and compression, I'd start with finding better drums, setting the correct volume and using panning to open up space for things to breathe a little, and to add some artistic flair. But keep any thing with bass/low end more or less center.

Visualize your mix, think of the space between your speakers and an imaginary line between them, thats the center, use panning to place your instruments/sounds, left of right, like you may have your snare closer to the right speaker and your hi hat a little off right of center, your bass in the middle. With the level (volume) visualize your higher up instruments as the loudest, things like your kick and snare your bass just below them, etc.

That might help, or confuse you lol.. I dunno, give it a try. I'm no expert, but its helped me.

Very good advice, I am happy to see somebody else supporting my panning suggestion. :D

And of course, I guess it all depends on the quality of the samples he's working with.. If they're poor though, you can definitely try and improve their quality.
 
DJJB...dude

give us a .zip file, i need to here whats up and i will give u feedback 4 ur song

otha than that, just google eq & compression

also, banging drumz just means those that have been eq'ed & compressed already from a sample company...and also fit relatively well 2 ur mix...like croup drumz or ultimate soul drumz
 
Ehhh f* it, toss up an audio snippet so we can hear. B4 that...

In order:
1) Start with good drums and instruments. Make sure even with the drums that the samples don't sound too muddy. If some are muddy, you'll have to know how to fix some of these problems with
2) Proper mixing. Meaning EQ, and not always compressing your drum set. Once again, it pays to read up on this a little bit, then go ahead and dive in. Also,
3) Pan them damn sounds, and ALTERNATE THE VOLUMES. Let us know you're doing this with an audio clip, so we can hear exactly what's wrong. My mixes were different characters once I started raising and lowering bars...

What do you use, kick, snare, hi-hats...? You shouldn't have to add bass boost and EQ to death for the kick to knock, and maybe your problem IS that you need good headphones and/or speakers. Sometimes the sound outlet makes all the difference, trust.
 
In FL Studio do this(from memory, could be off a little).

Make one mixer channel for all of your bass and drums to go thru. Load up the "FL Compressor" and set it to the preset "Drums".

Then load up the 7 band EQ(not to use all 7 bands, but for all the functions). Cutoff everything below 31hz with band 1. Put a low shelf at 64-78hz(64 for more thump, 78 for more "pop")with band 2. Turn it up 1-2db. It should be a sharp wave to the far left and then go flat across.

Make sure anything you want low end presence from goes thru that channel. you're welcome.
 
Compression works better with samples that have varying frequencies, like a full drum set instead of just kicks, I think... the compression just might be killing the bass. Also, if you layer the wrong way, some sounds might cancel each other out or f* up the mix.

---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 PM ----------

In FL Studio do this(from memory, could be off a little).

Make one mixer channel for all of your bass and drums to go thru. Load up the "FL Compressor" and set it to the preset "Drums".

Then load up the 7 band EQ(not to use all 7 bands, but for all the functions). Cutoff everything below 31hz with band 1. Put a low shelf at 64-78hz(64 for more thump, 78 for more "pop")with band 2. Turn it up 1-2db. It should be a sharp wave to the far left and then go flat across.

Make sure anything you want low end presence from goes thru that channel. you're welcome.

Thanks, lol. Bout to try that ish.
 
You could raise you mids in the eq included in the actual mixer track. It gives my drums that punchy sound as well as Fruity Parametric EQ1 Bass Drum Punch Preset
 
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First and foremost, I GREATLY appreciate the comments. Everything so far has been useful (except "use good drums"- thats not helpful and pretty much a lazy response.. why bother) and I have been trying a lot of similar methods but maybe not these exact ones so I'll go back and re-try some mixing with all of your suggestions. After you listen to my stuff let me know how the levels/tones are- it might just be the quality of my phones/speakers since my meters tell me shitz knockin.. :)
A variety of my stuff is below so definitely listen to those for example and more accurate critique.

soundclick- www.soundclick. com/FutureSoundProductionsJ2theB

My process: to clear up what I do currently to help you understand better, In general I...
:Mix in separate groups/tracks of kick, snare, hats, cym, sub/bass, instruments (individually)- sometimes I'll even split high and sub kicks or have more than one hat track in the mixer. ..I eq every track and add compression to drums, sometimes reverb etc to fatten
:Pan: drums- kick/bass center, snare L/L5-15%, hats 15-75%
:Stereo separation is only used on instruments, though sometimes I add it to cymbal hits or to dampen panning in drums so its more spread

What I want is to be able to make a banger where everything is crisp and clubby, but then to also make a nasty sample stand out with hard snappy drums like p.rock/9th wonder beats. Thats really my goal as a producer- to develop artists and be able to make bangers for them, but to also bring back that soul hip hop vibe in a new school way that will make heads bang. Right now most of my stuff is pretty experimental and would sound better in a film than on a rap cd, but I'm learning how to simplify and match sounds better to have tight composition.

I know this is lengthy but once again, big up to those who took the time to help and check out what I got so far on soundclick...
 
Turn off the "circular panning law" in the project's option.
 
ppl forget about mids.... turn down the highs.... turn the low up but the mid is what gives it that unnnhhhh in it.... depending on where yu want it.... play wit those mids
 
Turn off the "circular panning law" in the project's option.

I have read about this and it seems that when you turn this off your levels react at their set levels and vary in db depending on pan in a natural way. making centered hits louder and panned hits slightly lower (-3db to -6db). So when cpl is on it basically adds +3-6 db to panned hits so that they are more level within the track compared to centered hits.

After learning this I feel that turning cpl off wouldn't help too much and I probably circumvent this setting by changing my levels to my ear's liking anyway right?

thoughts on cpl and any other comments about hard drums?
 
I have read about this and it seems that when you turn this off your levels react at their set levels and vary in db depending on pan in a natural way. making centered hits louder and panned hits slightly lower (-3db to -6db). So when cpl is on it basically adds +3-6 db to panned hits so that they are more level within the track compared to centered hits.

After learning this I feel that turning cpl off wouldn't help too much and I probably circumvent this setting by changing my levels to my ear's liking anyway right?

thoughts on cpl and any other comments about hard drums?


I think it's the other way around.

I just want you to be clear.

- All you are doing by turning off the law is adding 3 dB to any sound panned dead-centre (progressively less as sounds are panned to 100% L or R).
- You can achieve the same effect by turning up the master volume by 3 dB.
- That you switch it off and prefer it, is nothing more than responding to the 'louder is better' phenomenon.

Serious question you need to ponder...

- So why didn't I mix my track 3 dB louder in the first place?

Regards Scott / Site Admin Image-line.com
I always get the feeling the sound is coming out sorta "compressed" when turning it on. I read on other DAW's aswell, and as far as i understood, cpl shouldn't be ON by default. But it is in fl studio.

I could be wrong though.
However if i tend to make my drum pattern in fl studio and export it into cubase for further instrumentation, i turn cpl off in fl studio cuz i leave everything panned in the center anyway.
 
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My process: to clear up what I do currently to help you understand better, In general I...
:Mix in separate groups/tracks of kick, snare, hats, cym, sub/bass, instruments (individually)- sometimes I'll even split high and sub kicks or have more than one hat track in the mixer. ..I eq every track and add compression to drums, sometimes reverb etc to fatten
:Pan: drums- kick/bass center, snare L/L5-15%, hats 15-75%
:Stereo separation is only used on instruments, though sometimes I add it to cymbal hits or to dampen panning in drums so its more spread

Everything you said is exactly what I do as well, so I am very damn pleased to read that other people out there actually take the time to mix different aspects of their beats appropriately and respectively for what they are. People always thought it was weird that I could use up to 5 mixer channels solely for drums, but, it is what it is, I suppose.

Thank you for elaborating more on your use of stereo separation. Clearly, I had the wrong idea and I am glad that not only you proved me wrong, but proved to be using it appropriately and resourcefully.

You are definitely on the right track, my friend. :cheers:
 
Circular panning Law is deeper than just "Gain". It manipulates gain in panned audio. This causes a stereo dynamic "spread" for lack of better wording that is going to sound different. "better" is an opinionated word, but turning it off will make FL operate and sound "more like other DAWS".

You notice a huge difference when you use sounds like S.Del in the legacy menu or the stereo spread on the mixer tracks. Even when using maxim's stereo effects.

Because of FL's shotty playback engine, I won't comment on how much of a difference it will make on a final mixdown, I don't know, but it makes an obvious difference beyond "gain" on the playback engine.

It's obvious.
 
First and foremost, I just wanted to let you know that it's pretty hard to review/critique your tracks on Soundclick because that service greatly reduces overall track quality by compressing everything down to a shitty 128kbit MP3 bitrate - thus taking away all the crisp, clarity, tone, and bang of your track. It's probably just as bad as MySpace Music. But, if you're interested, SoundCloud.com offers a great free service that doesn't reduce your quality at all. Just sayin'.

ANYWAY let's talk about those drums now, shall we? ;)

01. You said you have separate mixer channels for kicks, hats, snares, etc., which is great - but do you have an EQ in all of them as well? Make sure you have separate EQs lying in each channel so you can tweak every aspect appropriately (example: you wouldn't want to mix hi-hats the same way you'd want to mix a bass-drum or kick).

02. If you want to add more bump in your kicks (boom + thump), go to the EQ and boost +3Db at around 150Hz, but give it a very narrow bandwidth/Q - maybe 3-6%. If you don't know what the bandwidth/Q is, it's that alternative knob on the equalizer that you turn that either makes your adjustments very tight/narrow, or very open/broad. Now boost similarly around the 300Hz area (also with that same narrow bandwidth/Q). Of course, take this with a grain of salt; each sample is different, so use your ears to find the sweet spot, or what you want.

03. Don't rely as much on compression for your drums; although they can make them louder, they don't necessarily bring out any punch or bang - they only make it more noticeable after the proper EQing is done. If anything, focus heavily on making the proper boosts and drops your EQing, and then go to some subtle compression for a boost.

04. Purple Sippa offered some simple advice that is quite true: boost your mids - but appropriately. I wouldn't consider using his suggestion of using the "Bass Drum Enhancer" preset on the Fruity Parametric 1 EQ though, but it's a good example of the point he was trying to make. Instead, use the Parametric 2 equalizer and make boosts in the mids - it brings it more "up front", especially around the 500-1000Hz range.

05. PeezyBeatz suggested to forget the mids, but boost the lows and drop the highs. I really hope he doesn't mean doing this overall, but for bass-drums/sub-bass, this is especially true. For kicks, however, you may want to actually boost a very small amount in the mid frequencies to compensate for the drop in mids you made on the sub-bass. Also, boost a bit of the high end to add tonal clarity.

06. For fat/boomy snares, I suggest actually dropping a small amount in the lower frequencies so it doesn't clash with the bass-drum and kick. If it's not fat/boomy sounding though, but instead, thin, there's no need to drop any lower frequencies (usually). If it's a thin sounding snare, boost around 250-400Hz for more "weight"; this way, it may sound a little more hard-hitting. Then, boost some of the mids so it sounds more "up front", and then some of the high end so the crisp can accentuate the hit.

One last thing: check your inbox. Sent you a little message.

Cheers!
 
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