Ableton PUSH...VS... a Modular Setup...???

C

Chew_Bear

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Hopefully there is a 'in-house' Ableton Guru/Gear junkie in FP that can help.

Ableton is definitely my MAIN DAW and I guess you can say I am an Ableton FANBOY now after 8 months of using it and LOVING IT ever since.

Without a doubt....I can honestly say....I can only see myself using Ableton for the for-see-able future in my music production career.

With that said.....Every one that uses Ableton will know that the Ableton PUSH is the 'best' controller there is for controlling everything in Ableton.

......BUT.......

If an Ableton PUSH is really not your forte....OR.....its too expensive.....

What have you (personally or thru research) have found to be the "BEST" modular midi controller combination setup that can 'RIVAL' the Ableton PUSH in terms of....

1. Functionality/Versatility
2. Features
3. Plugin/VST control
4. And...pretty much anything you can think of inside Ableton.

I really do think the Ableton PUSH is a nice controller....BUT....I think its way too 'over priced' for what you get. (No extra sounds, instruments etc.)

I am thinking a modular setup of multiple midi controllers might be more cost effective and might even offer an extra functionality or 2. And....also offer a set of tools that the PUSH might not have. (Don't quote me)

I just need some suggestions, tips and/or experiences any Ableton producers in here have.
 
A midi controller is a midi controller. The ones with the most features are a ren/maschine/push/mv8800/mpc3-5000/mpctouch etc.
A reason/studio one fella and only a smidget of ableton knowledge so I have noooo idea tbh.

An ableton push is basically 4 drumpads that are smushed into one, some like that some don't.
It seems like this device is an mpc touch, crossed with a novation launchpad.
Have neither but that thing screams mpc touch/novation launchpad hybrid.

However kinda curious about what somebody with actual ableton knowledge has to say about that though.
 
I've had multiple keyboards (both synths as controllers & dedicated controllers), the original APC40 & the original Launchpad. Ended up with the Push - I think it's the best out-of-the box single-unit controller for Live. it's not perfect and indeed a "modular" setup can work wonders with the right kind of config, but it's good enough for me. I have the first version, which has some issues with the layout - it's often hard to intuitively remember (when not using it daily) where the functions are located (this was extensively tested & fixed with Push 2), but it's not much of an issue in the long run. It's wonderfully different to input notes with, the step seq is very intuitive and usually plugins - even 3rd party ones - map nicely.
 
The thing I am most confused about is....Since I have no music theory experience/knowledge (yet).....

1. Should I get a 'traditional' midi keyboard....????

Since it would 'help' with learning music theory more efficiently and even help make it easier to understand and comprehend...since its already in a Piano style...so to say.

....OR.....

2. Should I get the PUSH instead as it would offer better DAW control.....BUT.....with a slight disadvantage/sacrifice when it comes to learning music theory as its obviously NOT a traditional keyboard.

Therefore....having to learn PUSH's own Piano/Pad 'hybrid' SCALE/CHORD/NOTE sequencing style...might even take longer and with a slight learning curve. But with maybe 1 advanatge...and that being intuitiveness and fun.

....OR....

3. Get BOTH. PUSH and a keyboard if I can afford it and the space.
 
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Both. I didn't mean the Push is all I use - I still have multiple keyboards. But it's my centerpiece DAW controller & "alternate" note input device.
 
for me...as i would love to conrol ableton without mouse, i found a good solution in using two LPD 8 Controller and a good practice in using keyboard shortcuts.
Also i made a Midichannel with Midieffects that simulated various mpc-effects. i made this channel to be my default incoming channel in drum rack.

MPC-like2.jpgmpc-like.jpgLPD83.jpg

also..i found good max for live devices, which gives you push2-simpler-slicing features to every midicontroller.
www az-labs com

this setup is made for sampling and producing in MPC Style and suits to my workflow.
 
The answer is personal preference and what the thing's gonna be used for.
Desktops still need mouse and keyboard, touchscreens need the touchscreen.
Navigating operating systems from my knowledge can't be bypassed like that.

Doing a lot of research on controllers beforehand is also a good idea too.
With that being said I'm prolly getting rid of the padkontrol and sticking to mpd series lol.
 
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I guess the main allure of the Push is that if you conform to how it does things, it's perfectly possible to build tracks completely on it, without having to resort to standard controllers like a (computer) keyboard or a mouse.
 
I tried push2 out in my local store recently and having never been a fan of Ableton; left seriously impressed...
If I had the cash (and didn't need it for other things - new interface) I'd be massively tempted to replace my MKII Maschine with it...
 
I know this is a late response, but what others have stated above are mostly true.

I come from a foundation of a hardware background, then transitioned into a hybrid setup, then to mostly software. I have been slowly migrating back to incorporating hardwares back into my setup, but hardware synths have always been a part of it.

Chew, I COMPLETELY agree with you about the price. When the first Push controller came out, I remember declaring them insane for charging that much for a MIDI controller...I mean, its a God Damn MIDI controller, not a synth or sound module or an instrument (the way they attempted to market it). It seriously had me saying "man, fuck them and fuck their controller".

THEN, when I saw the price for the Push2, I thought...these dudes are seriously out of their fucking moinds...

I saw some of the things that Thavius Beck was doing with the Push2, in addition to a few videos that others had posted and I figured "ok, I gotta try this". So I bought the Push2 controller without even intending to keep it because I am forever a skeptic.

In my workflow/setup, I really like it a lot and it probably cut down my ability to edit samples/load instruments/get down a solid idea or foundation for a pretty damn good beat by almost half the time it normally took me. The visual feedback I like a lot and the display is pretty impressive. I have never used Maschine, so I cannot compare it to that but I have used various samplers including the MPC 2000, MPC 2000XL, Sp-202, Sp-808 and I always really liked the hands-on approach to music that they possessed.

The main attraction that I had for the Push2 controller was that it allows me to work quickly, without looking at the screen and using the mouse---about 90% of the time, and I really enjoy that. Creating patterns and sequences is very expedited. I'm still learning and training myself to rely solely on the controller instead of the mouse, but I am still a creature of habit and it's hard to unlearn/relearn some things when you are getting older and have less time. So obviously with time being one of my most precious assets, I decided to keep the controller, because I was so fond of it. You really have to try it in order to appreciate it and learn that it's not just "any MIDI controller".

It pays to wait until one of those 20% off coupons come around and haggle with "white lies" about what other offers you have received. It's fair game to poise these guys against each other to save as much coin as you can.
I think, after taxes and everything, I paid a little over $600 for the Push2, shortly after it was released. I spent a couple weeks on sending proof/documentation of counter offers (and maybe editing them slightly).




That being said, I have several other MIDI controllers that I still use simultaneously with the Push2. I still employ the Korg nanoKontrol regularly, I enjoy its compact size and ability to map individual controls/sliders/knobs to its rotary and slider controls. I'm very used to it, so turning knobs without looking is still habitual. I see no reason to remove it from my setup.

I still hook up an Axiom keyboard controller, because I am still better playing instruments like piano or synth on a keyboard than I am on the pads.

My LaunchPad S is collecting dust, but that's my fault. I'm sure it could find a very useful purpose in what I'm doing, if not at least having a friend use it for collaboration and/or live jamming purposes. I've just been enamored with the Push2, really.




I think for most people, the main hurdle is the price, cause it damn sure isn't cheap. It was one of my main deterrents. If I was not in a position to where I was able to financially pick it up and try it for a trial period, I'm not sure I would have ever given it a chance. At the time when I was considering it, all of the retailers in my area (San Diego), were all saying they do not plan to set it up for demo purposes because they would have to dedicate a computer unit and all kinds of blah blah b.s. But they set out $3,000 synths for demo to be fucked up (ok guys) but i digress lol...
 
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